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Why is rape not being taking seriously?

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by SayaOtonashi, Dec 25, 2013.

  1. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    She should've had to serve the time he did.
     
  2. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    I don't know how you could even claim to know that.
     
  3. LOVEthroughINTELLECT

    LOVEthroughINTELLECT The courage to be human

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    I say this with all due respect to every participant in this thread: I do not see the point in splitting hairs over statistics.

    Whether 1 out of every 5 women has been the victim of sexual assault, or it is really 2 out of every 5 or it is really 1 out of every 10, we have a problem. And people believe that we do not take that problem seriously.

    Maybe we are missing the kinds of leaders who can humanize the issue. We seem to treat it as an issue of male-dominated law enforcement agencies, male-dominated academic institutions, a broken justice system, and misogyny, among other abstract things. Maybe we are missing somebody like Martin Luther King, Jr. to remind us that we are failing humans who are deserving of the same dignity and respect as all other humans. Maybe we need somebody to remind us that we are not living up what is written in many of our constitutions.

    A good start might be to stop making it a women's issue, a prisoners' issue, etc. Maybe if every victim of sexual assault--male and female; heterosexual and homosexual; rich, middle class and poor; black, white and Hispanic; urban and rural; famous and common; young and old--developed a sense of solidarity and did something like the 1963 March on Washington then we could no longer deny that we have a problem and no longer do nothing to correct it.
     
  4. yasic

    yasic Part time poster, Full time lurker

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    The problem is how you address it. For instance the second article of the OP seems to be implying that the school was wrong for not punishing the alleged rapist despite the police declaring they would not pursue charges. This implies that the suggested action, at least via said article, would be to assume a rape charge is true and take action based on this assumption. In such a case, the existence and magnitude of false rape accusations do in fact matter when discussing such a moral deviation from our normal criminal justice proceedings.

    So let me ask you then: How do you propose we correct this?
     
  5. LOVEthroughINTELLECT

    LOVEthroughINTELLECT The courage to be human

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    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."--Martin Luther King, Jr.

    We need more public consciousness. We have had an epidemic of mass shootings in the U.S., the problems of gun violence and mental illness are therefore on everybody's mind, and therefore we are being forced to confront the problem. Other than the Duke lacrosse case--which most people have forgotten about--has there been anything to bring the problems you mention to public consciousness?

    If it is mostly high school and college kids who are being falsely accused and mistreated by the justice system, do they have enough power as a group to organize and mobilize?

    Maybe like Herb Goldberg has said, men need have the anger that women have had as they have fought sexism.

    Better yet, we could get women to see that when innocent men are denied justice that everybody, including women, suffers.
     
  6. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    I'd like to see it.
     
  7. Strathos

    Strathos No one important

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  8. yasic

    yasic Part time poster, Full time lurker

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    The problem is all system have injustice to some. Under our system plenty of innocent people are currently sitting in jail. We we less strict, more rapists and murderers would be walking the streets free. Compromise must be reached.

    If it were, as the OP's article suggests, that false rape accusations were but non-existent, then it may in fact make sense to break the rule of 'Innocent until proven guilty' in this case if it can be argued for the greater good. In this case we would be sacrificing the near insignificant number of falsely accused to bring justice to a plethora of rape victims and rapists. How could you argue otherwise?

    It still stands on that huge if which has yet to be demonstrated.
     
  9. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    That 8% number still has to be too low though. There are at least two other types of false rape allegations which it doesn't cover. The first would be a false rape allegation which results in a conviction. The second would be a false rape allegation which gets dismissed by the accuser. When you add just those false allegations which result in a conviction, I would expect that number to at least double to 16%. Add those which have been dropped by the accuser and I think 24% or roughly one quarter of all rape allegations are entirely false.

    If you really wanted to reduce this number, I'd propose that the accuser face time equal to that of the accused.
     
  10. Gadarene

    Gadarene Disregard females, acquire currency

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    Quite easily - removal of presumption of innocence in one case would also set a worrying precedent, and I'd love to know how people pushing for this think it definitely won't return to bite them in the posterior at a later date.

    Removal of this would actually make us more likely to end up in the kind of society described by those in objection to such a move - one where it is simply sufficient to make an accusation in order to get someone convicted.

    You would be increasing the number of innocent people punished by the system, which is what presumption of innocence works to minimise. It is a fundamental right of most democracies, and asking that it be removed for one group alone is not equality. It is entitlement.

    And as a side note, given that most people arguing for removal of presumption of innocence think rape is a gendered crime (i.e. it being something men do), I don't see how one can argue that demanding removal of presumption of innocence in rape cases is anything other than sexist.

    There are of course problems with the prosecuting of rape, but that doesn't justify increasing injustice in some misguided attempt to compensate for it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013
  11. softart

    softart Newbie

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    Rape is not taken seriously because most of the time, the woman lies about it just to get back at the guy. Sometimes it could be consensual sex, which she later regrets - and so she screams rape. Other times, it could be something totally bizarre - like the Israeli girl accusing the Arab guy of rape even though they had consensual sex. Her contention was that he lied about being Israeli and this therefore constitutes rape. Bizarro logic.

    There are other cases where women call even rough sex as rape. So if everything falls under the rape category, then what really is rape? This is why judges become confused - on the one hand, they want to punish the perpetrator, but then again they don't want to end up punishing the wrong guy by taking a loose woman's word at face value.

    This is why I like the Islamic way of doing things - you will never hear dishonest women putting men's lives at risk by lying about rape. That could backfire. In the west, women could bludgeon a man and get away with it.
     
  12. Jade Margery

    Jade Margery Stranger in a strange land

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    Bolding mine.

    You have exactly no proof, experience, or studies to support this assertion--not even poor ones. You are literally pulling numbers out of your rectum and in the process accusing thousands of victims of lying. You have no idea what you are talking about, and I doubt you actually read any of the links I or Strathos posted, or you would probably not be making such ignorant assertions.
     
  13. Redac

    Redac Regular Member

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    This is so ignorant and wrong on so many levels that I wouldn't even know how to begin responding to it.
     
  14. Redac

    Redac Regular Member

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    This is so incredibly typical. A thread about rape and the response to it turns into a thread all about false rape accusations and how common and bad that is and how we should deal with that. Never mind the much larger issue surrounding actual rape; let's just talk about how so many of these victims are actually just liars.

    It was the first link Jade posted. She saved me the trouble of going and looking for it.
     
  15. Gadarene

    Gadarene Disregard females, acquire currency

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    Again, you are misrepresenting what went on in the thread. Someone made the perfectly valid point that a lot of rape cases turn into he said she said, even with things like DNA evidence. It was Strathos who brought up the topic of false rape accusations in general. At that point there had only been a reference made to a single case.

    If it is relevant to why rape isn't being treated in the way you would like, then it is scarcely irrelevant to bring it up, now is it?
     
  16. keith99

    keith99 Senior Member

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    Bolding mine.

    I'm wondering just how the poster you are responding to thinks rape allegations should be treated?

    It seems a trial and the normal rules of evidence are not sufficient.

    Seems to me that is taking rape seriously. If what that poster wants is conviction based just on the claim than bringing up false allegations is all the more relevant.
     
  17. SharonL

    SharonL Senior Veteran

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    The he said, she said defense, the casual way sex is done now, the morals of the population not at a high standard and many things cause this awful crime to go unpunished.

    I had a friend who dated a girl and she wanted to get married and he said no, she said I'll cry rape if you don't marry me - he didn't marry her and she yelled rape - he went to jail for a year.
     
  18. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    If you go back and read post 16 which describes which cases can end up labelled as "false allegations"....there's a particular case you don't see. Cases where the accuser dropped the charges. There's good reason not to add those if you think about it, as there's many reasons a woman/man would drop the charges that have nothing to do with the charge being false. Since the whole basis of the link's argument is that dropped charges are bolstering false accusations numbers. However, such cases don't get added to the statistics...basically destroying the entirety of the argument presented in that link is false.
     
  19. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    The interesting thing about this fancy new thing called Google, is they also have plenty of examples of false rape accusations! Even false rape accsations in the military. If rape were not taken seriously, many of these false rape accusations initially would not have gone anywere.

    Ken
     
  20. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    You're right that I'm guessing at the numbers, but that's all I can do. There haven't been any studies on how many men convicted of rape were falsely accused. We know this happens because DNA evidence has set many men convicted of rape free....but exact numbers are hard to come by.

    As for your "studies" I did respond to them. If you missed the posts I'll gladly point them out. I tend to avoid anecdotal evidence (unlike the OP) but if that's what you really want I'll be happy to provide that as well.

    As for the "accusing thousands of victims of lying"...they aren't really victims if they're lying are they?? What about the men who's lives are ruined because of a false conviction? Are they not victims?
     
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