Why is it wrong to change your views?

[Albion]

I didn't say it negates your point.

I know. It was not a big thing on my part.

On the contrary I think what I say expounds on your point and provides a "why" to it . I conjecture that liberal orthodoxy is inherently unstsinable because of your point. You are correct that the Tatics of the militant gays, militant Muslims , etc are very very similar yet their end objectives are very different. As such once there is no longer a common foe, the liberal coalition will invariably tear itself apart.

I'm glad you reasserted your view.

 

[Archivist]

Democrats are still very conservative, they just hold different things close to the chest. That is why we are having the problems we are having now regarding the people who are abusive and rioting, etc., just because they lost. True liberals, like Kennedy, are almost nowhere to be found in the Democratic party these days.

Actually you need to learn your political history. The Republicans had been the liberal party until the early years following the Civil War. The conservative gradually gained strength. TR was the last major progressive candidate fielded by the Republicans. The Democrats, on the other hand were the Conservative party. Beginning in the late 1800s that changed. The Populist movement lead to the rise of William Jennings Bryan and liberal control of the party. "You shall not press down upon the brow of labor this crown of thorns. You shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold." That's from memory btw so please I might be off by a word or two.

 

[A New Dawn]

Actually you need to learn your political history. The Republicans had been the liberal party until the early years following the Civil War. The conservative gradually gained strength. TR was the last major progressive candidate fielded by the Republicans. The Democrats, on the other hand were the Conservative party. Beginning in the late 1800s that changed. The Populist movement lead to the rise of William Jennings Bryan and liberal control of the party. "You shall not press down upon the brow of labor this crown of thorns. You shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold." That's from memory btw so please I might be off by a word or two.

I'm not saying that the republicans never held liberal beliefs, I'm suggesting that the Democrats of today are not the liberals that they claim to be.

 

[Lukaris]

Like when they were so consistently fighting to preserve slavery?

Misunderstood the post, response incorrect & deleted.

 

[Archivist]

I'm not saying that the republicans never held liberal beliefs, I'm suggesting that the Democrats of today are not the liberals that they claim to be.

But there was a party flip, which you said didn't happen.

 

[Shempster]

You are wise to question everything!
One thing I can tell you about the universe.....there are thousands of theories and not a one cannot be debunked. Not only that, but not a one can be proved without a rebuttal.

What a wonderful God we serve! We all have opinions but nobody can really say with certainty that they know the absolute truth on any subject.
The words top scientists cannot even explain what consciousness is or where it comes from.

I can promise you that when we stand before God, we will finally know all and find out that we were very wrong on many beliefs. But that's the best part. God isn't so much concerned with our beliefs, but rather our characters and our motives and intentions.

 

[A New Dawn]

But there was a party flip, which you said didn't happen.

I did mention LBJ, who forced a party flip to make the Democrats appear to be more liberal, but really it was for the purpose of securing the votes. According to LBJ:

These Negroes, they're getting pretty uppity these days and that's a problem for us since they've got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we've got to do something about this, we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference.

LBJ was known to be racist and frequently made racist remarks. And remember, Democrats, at the time, were reluctant to step into the civil rights arena. All well-known facts.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

But there was a party flip, which you said didn't happen.

Only one party did the flipping. The Republicans of today still are against slavery, segregation and abortion. In fact, they are largely in the same place that they've always been. They were never in favor of homosexual "marriage," or other perversions. They have always been strongly nationalistic. Recent movement toward progressivism is still within the historical range. Democrats, however, have given up on fighting for slavery and segregation, and now fight for sodomy, abortion and atheistic principles. Republicans haven't changed much, but the Democrats have swung wildly.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Only one party did the flipping. The Republicans of today still are against slavery, segregation and abortion.

Far right Republicans, seeking to increase deportation of illegal aliens, are actually supporting illegal exploitation of workers, who would not dare complain to authorities about substandard wages, substandard conditions because they might be turned over to be deported.

Republican gerrymandering of voting districts is one of the key parts of their strength, minimizing the impact of minority votes. White supremacists are a key part of the current Republican voting mix, believing as they do that the Republican party gives them the best hope the government will allow them to retain their racist ways.

. . . Democrats, however, have given up on fighting for slavery and segregation,

Isn't it Democrats who seek to overturn what they call unfair denial of lending by banks? Unfair racist patterns of policing and sentencing? Unfair allocation of school funding?

Isn't it Republicans who keep saying we have no need for regulation such things?

 

[FenderTL5]

two words: "southern strategy"

--------------------------
I have less issue with someone who changes opinion/position based on new information than those who hold hypocritical views and claim to be principled.

 

[Albion]

Far right Republicans, seeking to increase deportation of illegal aliens, are actually supporting illegal exploitation of workers, who would not dare complain to authorities about substandard wages, substandard conditions because they might be turned over to be deported.

But couldn't it also be said that Far Left Democrats, seeking to increase voting by non-citizens, are supporting illegal entry of foreign workers whom they know will be employed off the books and paid wages below the legal minimum?

Republican gerrymandering of voting districts is one of the key parts of their strength, minimizing the impact of minority votes.

And prior to the Republicans obtaining the majority in Congress and most state legislatures, it was the Democrats who gerrymandered voting districts to their advantage. Now they are crying crocodile tears that they don't get to do it very much anymore. It's not as though they wouldn't do it if they could!

 

[Sketcher]

I don't begrudge people for learning and improving. I do begrudge them for hypocrisy, and for turning away from good positions they cannot effectively refute.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I'm thinking you are not remembering this correctly. It was the Democrats who fought to preserve slavery and started the KKK to scare the bejeesus out of everyone who voted Republican.

He didn't say anything about political parties. The Democrats were the 19th century's conservatives, it was the Republicans who were the liberal party of social progress in the pre- and post-bellum American South. The political platforms of the two parties began to change during the course of the 20th century, with the final split occurring in the 1960's.

Southern strategy - Wikipedia

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

There was no "flip", as I outlined above.

Of course there was. This is well established historical fact.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Calvin_Hobbes]

Why is that such a bad thing? I was a bit dumbfounded the first time I ever saw someone say on here "the problem with liberals is that they're always changing their views to fit new information" and I just "that's what you are supposed to do." Can someone explain this to me?

One of the best things you can do is change your views when presented with new compelling information. This is precisely what people across the world should do.

The skill is in being discerning with regards what information you allow your views to turn on.

There is a massive difference between a total stranger with no education claiming to have information relating to the future lottery numbers and a mathematician providing you with the a probability analysis of your likelihood to win the lottery. Both could easily lead you to change your views on whether or not you should play the lottery, but you should not assign equal relevance to both.

The same goes for matters relating to morality, history, philosophy and other disciplines.

 

[Archivist]

Only one party did the flipping. The Republicans of today still are against slavery, segregation and abortion. In fact, they are largely in the same place that they've always been. They were never in favor of homosexual "marriage," or other perversions. They have always been strongly nationalistic. Recent movement toward progressivism is still within the historical range. Democrats, however, have given up on fighting for slavery and segregation, and now fight for sodomy, abortion and atheistic principles. Republicans haven't changed much, but the Democrats have swung wildly.

You say Republicans haven't changed much? You really need to learn your history. When the Republican Party was founded it retained a lot of the older Whig economic views that the government should be involved in the economy. That meant that they thought the government was responsible for financing infrastructure, education, and promoting commerce. They believed in more federal involvement in all these things; they were the "big government" party.

The Democrats were the more tradition-minded party. They were also the party focused on keeping taxes low and they wanted to leave power with the states, i.e. they were the "states' rights" party.

And abortion? You do realize that the Roe opinion was written by a Republican justice and was supported by four other Republican justices? You do realize that the Republican party platform was pro-choice until the 1980 election?

 

[Archivist]

I did mention LBJ, who forced a party flip to make the Democrats appear to be more liberal, but really it was for the purpose of securing the votes. According to LBJ: LBJ was known to be racist and frequently made racist remarks. And remember, Democrats, at the time, were reluctant to step into the civil rights arena. All well-known facts.

All of which ignores the fact that there was a party flip.

 

[rrguy]

The issue more is ones calling them selves open minded, criticis others for not agreeing. Then months later changing their story.

It just seems ironic to call others names & expect them to treat you better than you treat them. It seems more of a vicious circle for both sides.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Ok, I decided to make a thread about this because I've seen this multiple times on CF now where people are criticizing science, liberals, etc. because they change their views, beliefs, opinions, whatever you want to call when they are presented with new information. To me, I don't understand why that it is a criticism at all. I was raised my parents, teachers, pastors, and everyone to question things, and when you are presented with new information that conflicts with what you current know, study and figure out which is right, never automatically dismiss anything as being wrong. In other words, when presented with hard, proven evidence or a good enough argument, the appropriate response is to change your views. I have changed my views multiple times on many issues, and would change mine.

Why is that such a bad thing? I was a bit dumbfounded the first time I ever saw someone say on here "the problem with liberals is that they're always changing their views to fit new information" and I just "that's what you are supposed to do." Can someone explain this to me?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with changing your views on a topic or doctrine. People that say otherwise are no different than the Judaizers of the New Testament that insisted upon circumcision. They want to enslave others to their doctrine.

In fact, the Bereans in Acts were commended by the Holy Spirit because they had open minds and were willing to change their views and beliefs when the truth was presented to them.

 

[The Brown Brink]

I'm thinking you are not remembering this correctly. It was the Democrats who fought to preserve slavery and started the KKK to scare the bejeesus out of everyone who voted Republican.

Back in the early 1800s, it was the Democrats who were conservative.
They wanted to keep their wealth, regardless of the misery and injustice they caused others.

The party changed its views.