Why Everyone Needs An AR-15

JosephZ

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Really, can you name a few please? I’d like to compare them to the AR and examine how these other rifles are more effective at killing animals yet ant the same time are less effective at killing humans. This concept intrigues me.
There are a lot of alternatives available that would be better for hunting than an AR-15, but the Browning Bar Mark III and the Benelli R1 would be two top choices.
 
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JosephZ

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I feel like the topic has been derailed by this discussion. What I would like to know is why people think that civilians shouldn’t own an AR?

So far I haven’t seen any viable arguments made for why civilians shouldn’t be allowed to own them. It seems to me that there’s just a bunch of people making a bunch of crap up that isn’t actually true at all.
First and foremost, the AR-15 was designed to kill humans in the most efficient way possible. All of the following features of an AR-15 are there for that purpose: The AR-15 forward grip is designed so the shooter can release the magazine with their trigger finger without ever removing their hand from the grip. This allows someone with a little practice to exchange an empty magazine with a full one in around a second. Try doing that with a standard fixed-stock semi-automatic rifle. A forward grip and a detachable high-capacity magazine allow a shooter to literally drill bullets accurately into a group of people and reload without giving anyone the opportunity to disarm them. The high muzzle velocity of an AR-15 combined with a light bullet causes catastrophic damage when it enters a human body, and the AR-15's light weight and short length make it an excellent weapon for maneuvering in closed quarters.

The title of this thread is "Why Everyone Needs an AR-15." The reasons above are why no one outside of the military and law enforcement agencies needs an AR-15 or similar type weapons.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Unlike many other semi-automatic weapons, the AR-15 and similarly designed weapons are more effective at killing a large number of people because AR-15's have high-capacity magazines that can be changed in less than 3 seconds.
Clip capacity is a completely different subject. You can get extended clips and even drums for pistols which are a whole lot easier to conceal and it’s pistols that are actually used in the large majority of homicides and crimes.
 
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JosephZ

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Clip capacity is a completely different subject. You can get extended clips and even drums for pistols which are a whole lot easier to conceal and it’s pistols that are actually used in the large majority of homicides and crimes.
High-capacity magazines have no place in our society either.
 
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Tuur

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People have this idea that Jesus is a pacifist, remind me what He’s going to do on Judgement Day according to Revelation 20. Punish the wicked?
I don't dismiss the self-defense questions out of hand. It's not so much pacifism: Jesus has authority none of us has. But the question is should Christians use force, up to and including deadly force, to protect their lives and the lives of their family? I think there are instances of justifiable force, but what if I'm wrong?
 
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Tuur

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There are a lot of alternatives available that would be better for hunting than an AR-15, but the Browning Bar Mark III and the Benelli R1 would be two top choices.
Well...it depends on what, and it comes down to the round. An AR-10 would cover most hunting other than small game and would handle the most dangerous animals I could encounter in the woods: black bear and wild hog. For shear versatility, it's hard to beat a shotgun, but a shotgun is a relatively short range weapon and rifled slugs have stout recoil.

Yesterday found myself toying with the idea of a 30-30, which really is kind of marginal for bear and hog. It can be done, but...And that brings me back to the 45-70 and high ammo prices, then it's back to .308.
 
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Tuur

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First and foremost, the AR-15 was designed to kill humans in the most efficient way possible. All of the following features of an AR-15 are there for that purpose: The AR-15 forward grip is designed so the shooter can release the magazine with their trigger finger without ever removing their hand from the grip. This allows someone with a little practice to exchange an empty magazine with a full one in around a second. Try doing that with a standard fixed-stock semi-automatic rifle. A forward grip and a detachable high-capacity magazine allow a shooter to literally drill bullets accurately into a group of people and reload without giving anyone the opportunity to disarm them. The high muzzle velocity of an AR-15 combined with a light bullet causes catastrophic damage when it enters a human body, and the AR-15's light weight and short length make it an excellent weapon for maneuvering in closed quarters.

The title of this thread is "Why Everyone Needs an AR-15." The reasons above are why no one outside of the military and law enforcement agencies needs an AR-15 or similar type weapons.
And now we're back at the start. If I do get a 45-70, I'll own a lever action not much different than what some US troops carried in Cuba in the Spanish-American War. And a 12 gauge pump shotgun isn't much different than what US soldiers used in WWI and subsequent wars. I get that some are troubled by the "look" of an AR-15, but every type of firearm has been used by some military at some point. There's no escaping that. And if you go the archery route, there's the Battle of Agincourt to consider.
 
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BNR32FAN

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There are a lot of alternatives available that would be better for hunting than an AR-15, but the Browning Bar Mark III and the Benelli R1 would be two top choices.
Both of these rifles were initially designed for military use and redesigned for civilian use, just like the AR. The BAR has an available 20 round magazine and the R1 has a 10 round magazine available. Both are only available in a larger caliber ammo which means they both do more damage to anything they hit per shot. It seems like the only real difference between these two and the AR is the magazine capacity which is most likely only due to the fact that these rifles aren’t as popular as the AR and that’s why companies aren’t making larger capacity magazines for them. I really don’t see why the AR is considered any more dangerous than these larger caliber semi automatic rifles here.
 
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Why would a follower of the Prince of Peace need an AR-15?
because not everyone is paceful for some people violence is all they understand.
 
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FireDragon76

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bwcause not everyone is paceful for some people violence is all they understand.

Jesus doesn't seem to endorse returning violence with violence in his sermons.
 
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Jesus doesn't seem to endorse returning violence with violence in his sermons.
Jesus says blassed are the peace MAKERS not the PEACEFUL He does not expect us to just take abuse, nor are we to just stand by when we see it.
 
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FireDragon76

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Jesus says blassed are the peace MAKERS not the PEACEFUL He does not expect us to just take abuse, nor are we to just stand by when we see it.

It would stand to reason that peacemakers would have to practice peace, and not merely talk about it or theorize about it. As the great preacher and social activist Abraham Muste said, "There is no way to peace. Peace is the way". This also seems congruent with Jesus' message in his sermons, where he taught people to forgive others and to return wrongs with love.

So tell me again, how is owning military-style assault weapons compatible with peacemaking exactly? How does it improve our ability to forgive others and return wrongs with love?
 
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dogs4thewin

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It would stand to reason that peacemakers would have to practice peace, and not merely talk about it or theorize about it. As the great preacher and social activist Abraham Muste said, "There is no way to peace. Peace is the way". This also seems congruent with Jesus' message in his sermons, where he taught people to forgive others and to return injustice with love.

So tell me again, how is owning military-style assault weapons compatible with peacemaking exactly? How does it improve our ability to forgive others and return wrongs with love?
Peacemakers do practice peace, BUT when peace does not work sometimes violence is the only option. Consider World War II for example Peace was tried and it turned to violence and death, but there is no telling how much more death there would have been if `good men did not stand up and use violence. Another example suppose someone is accused of murder the sespect is located well the police always hope that the person wil go into custody without a fight so that they do not have to use violence to stop the threat, BUT if the suspect insist on being a threat to them or others they will and should use lethal force to stop the threat. Same thing with other violent crimes some of the best Christians I know own or have owned guns (one particular woman I am thinking about is deceased of natural causes last year.) They (the people in question are some of the LAST people I would expect to so much as raise their voice in anger, BUT if they felt that they or the people they were with were in danger of death or great bodily harm or if they caught someone harming the same I can also promise you that if they had their firearm on them ( and I know more than one of them to carry they would use violence to stop that threat
 
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JosephZ

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The BAR has an available 20 round magazine and the R1 has a 10 round magazine available.
But you can't change the magazines in those rifles like this:


The designs of both the Browning Bar Mark III and the Benelli R1 make quick reloading difficult.

Here are the steps for exchanging the magazine in the Browning Bar Mark III for a comparison:

bar.jpg


Pull rearward on the magazine latch in front of the trigger guard and allow the hinged floorplate and magazine unit to swing downward.

Pull the bolt completely rearward and inspect the chamber to make sure it is empty. Return the bolt to the forward, closed position.

Detach the magazine from the floorplate by grasping the sides of the magazine and pulling it off the hinged floorplate.

Reattach the magazine by inserting the small lip on the front of the magazine into the matching groove in the front of the floorplate. Snap the rear of the magazine firmly into place.

After loading the magazine, swing the floorplate and loaded magazine upwards until retained by the magazine catch.


And the Benelli R1:

r1.jpg


Browning Bar Mark III with detachable magazine:


Both are only available in a larger caliber ammo which means they both do more damage to anything they hit per shot.
I'm not going to check the ballistics on each cartridge available for these two rifles, but larger caliber bullets would be heavier, and while they may cause a larger entry wound, they would also be more likely to pass through the body without causing as much catastrophic damage to the body. The heavier the weight the less tumbling after impact.

It seems like the only real difference between these two and the AR is the magazine capacity which is most likely only due to the fact that these rifles aren’t as popular as the AR and that’s why companies aren’t making larger capacity magazines for them.
I already covered the weight of the bullet, but there's also the forward grip, which allows a person to exchange an empty magazine with a full one in around a second and to drill bullets accurately into a group of people and reload without giving anyone the opportunity to disarm them, and the weight and short length, which make it a superior weapon compared to the other two for maneuvering in closed quarters.

I really don’t see why the AR is considered any more dangerous than these larger caliber semi automatic rifles here.
All of the reasons I mentioned are why the AR-15 in the hands of a shooter is more efficient at killing than the Browning Bar Mark III and the Benelli R1, and why the military adds those features to combat rifles.
 
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FireDragon76

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Peacemakers do practice peace, BUT when peace does not work sometimes violence is the only option. Consider World War II for example Peace was tried and it turned to violence and death, but there is no telling how much more death there would have been if `good men did not stand up and use violence. Another example suppose someone is accused of murder the sespect is located well the police always hope that the person wil go into custody without a fight so that they do not have to use violence to stop the threat, BUT if the suspect insist on being a threat to them or others they will and should use lethal force to stop the threat. Same thing with other violent crimes some of the best Christians I know own or have owned guns (one particular woman I am thinking about is deceased of natural causes last year.) They (the people in question are some of the LAST people I would expect to so much as raise their voice in anger, BUT if they felt that they or the people they were with were in danger of death or great bodily harm or if they caught someone harming the same I can also promise you that if they had their firearm on them ( and I know more than one of them to carry they would use violence to stop that threat

Thinking that violence is necessary as a solution to violence is the sort of thinking that perpetuates violence through a lack of creative nonviolent engagement with the world. That is why I favor a Just Peace rather than Just War ethic. Because the emphasis is on peace rather than justifications for war and violence.
 
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Thinking that violence is necessary as a solution to violence is the sort of thinking that perpetuates violence through a lack of creative nonviolent engagement with the world. That is why I favor a Just Peace rather than Just War ethic. Because the emphasis is on peace rather than justifications for war and violence.
Let me asks you this what would you do if violence was used to protect you personally? I am not talking about servicemembers overseas or even police in your town in general. I am talking about a situation where you are at home or in public minding your own someone attacks you maybe tries to rob you or carjack your car someone sees this maybe it is a police officer maybe it is even a civilian takes out a gun shoots them dead ( or even injures them or even say they pull out the gun and the suspect runs off before a shot is fired because they do not want to be shot. After the attack do you go off in a huff or get upset at the person (officer or otherwise) who useed violence or the threat thereof to protect you or do you thank them and give the police the information on the event ( the suspect if they ran ECT.
 
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FireDragon76

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Let me asks you this what would you do if violence was used to protect you personally? I am not talking about servicemembers overseas or even police in your town in general. I am talking about a situation where you are at home or in public minding your own someone attacks you maybe tries to rob you or carjack your car someone sees this maybe it is a police officer maybe it is even a civilian takes out a gun shoots them dead ( or even injures them or even say they pull out the gun and the suspect runs off before a shot is fired because they do not want to be shot. After the attack do you go off in a huff or get upset at the person (officer or otherwise) who useed violence or the threat thereof to protect you or do you thank them and give the police the information on the event ( the suspect if they ran ECT.

I don't like answering these kinds of hypotheticals, as they are a poor way of determining what is right and wrong. For one thing, such circumstances are rare (even in the US it's rare to be randomly attacked by anyone, it has never happened in all my 48 years of life and nobody I know has had it happen to them, either), and not good for deriving general ethical principles. Nevertheless, I would hope I would be able to resolve those situations with minimal amount of violence, such as by seeking to de-escalate, flee or evade from the violent confrontation.
 
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rturner76

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This is an absolutely absurd statement with no truth to it whatsoever.
So who really NEEDS an AR-15 as a regular citizen? People who require AR-13s are either gangsters or paranoid people. Why can't you just blow someone away with a shotgun? Why is there a need for 30 rounds per multiple magazines unless you or your kids want to blow away a school full of children? Is it really that serious? Are you really in that much danger as a hard-working 9-5 person or is it more useful for cartels, gangs, a paranoid preppers?
 
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