Why do you go to church?

[Hentenza]

First thanks, I do appreaciate that.

It seems that I am having a problem on four fronts.

• what is being said from the pulpit
• how to deal with it
• worship -
• fellowship is so shallow I can get the same from the friendly clerk at the store

There just doesn't seem to be what is happening in what is related in Heb 10:24, 25.

Being a single male doesn't help much either. Going and not participating except to sing and put money in the plate is not what I would call provoking to good works. I see more and more of the no offense attitude to get people into the church these days. I very rarely see any teaching about the faith or christian life.

bugkiller

Ah, got you. Your location say that you live in rural America. Are your choices limited? The reason I ask is that I agree with you that a lot of pastors have moved away from expository preaching to a more seeker friendly application preaching which tends to be quite subjective. There is nothing wrong with application but it needs to follow exposition. I have found that most churches with expository type preaching have a much more mature congregation that tends to be less judgmental and cantankerous making fellowship much biblical.

 

[mont974x4]

Ah, got you. Your location say that you live in rural America. Are your choices limited? The reason I ask is that I agree with you that a lot of pastors have moved away from expository preaching to a more seeker friendly application preaching which tends to be quite subjective. There is nothing wrong with application but it needs to follow exposition. I have found that most churches with expository type preaching have a much more mature congregation that tends to be less judgmental and cantankerous making fellowship much biblical.

It is the sign of the times....people want to hear ear ticklers. It's actually taught that way now in preaching classes....."you gotta be 'relevent'" and "you gotta earn the right to tell people the Gospel"....."whatever you do, do not offend people".


As you can imagine, I argue with my prof's and fellow student on these points. In fact the quote in my siggy by Leander Keck is a result of those arguments. When a preacher starts taking the Bible seriously he will quickly find who is serious about their faith and drawing close to God. Your attendance numbers will drop, "tithe" will drop, but the spiritual growth you will see will be worth it. Eventually I am sure the "numbers" will come up...if the board does not fire him.

 

[bugkiller]

Ah, got you. Your location say that you live in rural America. Are your choices limited? The reason I ask is that I agree with you that a lot of pastors have moved away from expository preaching to a more seeker friendly application preaching which tends to be quite subjective. There is nothing wrong with application but it needs to follow exposition. I have found that most churches with expository type preaching have a much more mature congregation that tends to be less judgmental and cantankerous making fellowship much biblical.

Yes it is 25 miles to town. I just am not much interested in going 50 miles to hear some PC Bible and or a PC sermon. And my pastor can not be associated with the Masons either. Part of the reason I dumped the major Pentecostal church in the world. The churches around here are family affairs or have abberant theology. It seems as the demand is swallow hook line and sinker anything we say, so you can be exactly like us of go away. Funny thing is one of the deacons presented some aberrant teaching of another denomination and the people got upset with me for defending their denominational POV. I am going WOW! The power deacon's (read money) idea is if it is not this denomination it will just be another as in different religions. Yes it is a closed social club.

Funny thing happened at the so called community gospel sing and fellowship last month. It seems a lady lost her husband and tried to become a little more friendly than before. She is part of the family of the church. Just not the kind of connection I find desirable. The new preacher - related to the woman who controls the church has ran off everybody except the family. Lost his only Sunday school teacher and his sound man - who really knew what he was doing. The new family sound man has no clue. The attendance dropped by half in 3 months. When you are only running less than 20 that is serious. I won't go to the other pentecostal is UPC and not even close to a consideration. Church is not something I do because I don't have anything else to do. Not just anything goes.

Doctrine is very important to me. I can fellowship with those of opposing doctrine. I just can't bring myself to say I accept something I don't believe for the sake of going to church. I am not a games or nothing matters kind of person.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

It is the sign of the times....people want to hear ear ticklers. It's actually taught that way now in preaching classes....."you gotta be 'relevent'" and "you gotta earn the right to tell people the Gospel"....."whatever you do, do not offend people".


As you can imagine, I argue with my prof's and fellow student on these points. In fact the quote in my siggy by Leander Keck is a result of those arguments. When a preacher starts taking the Bible seriously he will quickly find who is serious about their faith and drawing close to God. Your attendance numbers will drop, "tithe" will drop, but the spiritual growth you will see will be worth it. Eventually I am sure the "numbers" will come up...if the board does not fire him.

Now there is something I see and understand is happening. I am in league with mont974x4 on that. This is one of the reasons you see so much argument here in CF. BTW the Bible says this is necessary. Our no offense society is becoming a bigger problem everyday. In fact was the single biggest factor in me rejecting being a papered preacher more than 30 years ago. I simply could not bring myself to promote unbiblical teaching with or to be one of the boys.

bugkiller

 

[mont974x4]

The papers don't make the preacher. God does. I am just trying to be obedient to my calling and stand for His Word. I determined to fear God and not man. I remind people the the cross is offensive, the Gospel is a stumbling block, and Christ came to bring the sword.

 

[bugkiller]

The papers don't make the preacher. God does. I am just trying to be obedient to my calling and stand for His Word. I determined to fear God and not man. I remind people the the cross is offensive, the Gospel is a stumbling block, and Christ came to bring the sword.

I hear ya. I struggle with the legal aspects of a minister. If you are not papered you can not legally preform some religious rites.

I am starting to wonder if you are an independent church, can't you credential yourself through your independent church.

bugkiller

 

[mont974x4]

I do pastor an independent church. We also live in a state that does not require credentials. I was a pastor in a denominational church with a local license (being credentialed allowed me to serve as a chaplain here). The denomination limited who could do what in an official capacity. The limitations are unbiblical, but grounded on good intentions....needless to say, I spent a fair amount of time arguing against such things.


No, those arguments are not why I left the denomination and planted our own church. I was fired over doctrinal issues. I also was faced with the very real concerns you're struggling with now. I also believe we finally got confirmation to do a church plant.


Where is the credentials board in Scripture? I haven't found it.

 

[bugkiller]

I do pastor an independent church. We also live in a state that does not require credentials. I was a pastor in a denominational church with a local license (being credentialed allowed me to serve as a chaplain here). The denomination limited who could do what in an official capacity. The limitations are unbiblical, but grounded on good intentions....needless to say, I spent a fair amount of time arguing against such things.


No, those arguments are not why I left the denomination and planted our own church. I was fired over doctrinal issues. I also was faced with the very real concerns you're struggling with now. I also believe we finally got confirmation to do a church plant.


Where is the credentials board in Scripture? I haven't found it.

Yeah I like your statement in blue in the sig block.

Hmmm! I might check that out in my state.

bugkiller

 

[2 Tim 3:16]

I am very curious why you go to church. I don't seem to find the reason the Bible states in existence at church. I am hoping to hear from the the dedicated to occasional. Under the law the Israelite was commanded to worship only three times a year.

bugkiller

Bugkiller, thank you for your post, and that is a good question that most Christians often take for granted.

First off, we are not Jews so we are not under the law as it has already been fulfilled by Jesus Christ. So the command to worship 3 times a year does not apply to us.

The church is mentioned a lot in the New Testament, we have the Church at Corinth, the church at Ephesus, the Church at Antioch, the Church at Phillippi the 7 churches in Revelation etc. Most of the Pauline epistles are addressed to the church and provides instructions as to the order of the church (pastors, bishops, deacons etc.)

In this forum we already have Bible passages that command us to go to Church so I won't repeat them here.

Church is a place where:

-The saints get edified by listening to good, solid uncompromising preaching from the pulpit and we should always strive to learn something life changing every time we're there. We are commanded to "reprove, rebuke and exhort"

-We share prayer requests and pray for those in need as well as share praises on what God has done for us. This is a way to encourage one another.

-We fellowship and talk about the message and challenge each other.

-It is a haven for us since we are temporarily away from the world (i.e. away from evil communication, immorally dressed women, immorality in general)

The world feeds our flesh, and we know that in the flesh there "dwelleth no good thing" The church feeds our spirit. If we do not go to church we are letting our flesh win the battle against our spirit and we become ineffective for God and what He will have us to do for Him a.k.a. our "Reasonable Service"

Let me ask you. As a Christian, shouldn't we want to be with other like minded brothers and sisters rather than be with those of the world?

Finally.... your post is titled "Why do you go to church?" let me ask you, do you currently have a job? If so,then "Why do you go to work?"

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

I go to church principally to give and share spiritual motivation of the Lord, in word, music, and conversational fellowship.

 

[Celtic D]

I think I go against the tide on this thread, but I don't go to church.

 

[Son of Israel]

First thanks, I do appreaciate that.


It seems that I am having a problem on four fronts.

• what is being said from the pulpit
• how to deal with it
• worship -
• fellowship is so shallow I can get the same from the friendly clerk at the store

There just doesn't seem to be what is happening in what is related in Heb 10:24, 25.

Being a single male doesn't help much either. Going and not participating except to sing and put money in the plate is not what I would call provoking to good works. I see more and more of the no offense attitude to get people into the church these days. I very rarely see any teaching about the faith or christian life.

bugkiller

I know what you mean bro.

 

[Big Drew]

I am very curious why you go to church. I don't seem to find the reason the Bible states in existence at church. I am hoping to hear from the the dedicated to occasional. Under the law the Israelite was commanded to worship only three times a year.

bugkiller

To worship with like minded believers...to learn a different perspective from the pastor or whoever the preacher may be, than my own on Biblical concepts...fellowship...these are the main reasons I enjoy going to church.

 

[CFDavid]

I am very curious why you go to church. I don't seem to find the reason the Bible states in existence at church. I am hoping to hear from the the dedicated to occasional. Under the law the Israelite was commanded to worship only three times a year.

bugkiller

Forgive me if this has already been said, but please be aware that the term "church" was coined by Jesus.

 

[seashale76]

To receive the Body of Christ- it's the fountain of immortality.

 

[crw]

Seek a church that preaches a true or full gospel. Most modern day churches have lost this. Check out wayofthemaster.com and a site that I joined,cpsministry.com for its informitive links and videos.

 

[E.C.]

Why?

Well, Communion is a biggy there. In fact, the whole reason why Christians worship as a community in the first place is because of Communion.

And I like the people too.

 

[Kitty.]

To worship with other believers

 

[OldStudent]

Your raise a good question. I was raised in church. 16 years of education within the denomination, 2 years college with another denomination, 1 year of secular college. The in the mid 80s I was asked to a high responsibility post in my congregation at which point I promptly faced the question: "Church - Why bother." I would be in the "dedicated" class of those you seek a response from.

I want to respond to your observation about Israelite worship. It is true that they were expected to come to Jerusalem for certain high points. But to "worship only three times a year" misses something. Whose weren't written in stone - the seventh-day sabbath was. Every week was a day set aside for rest (not sleep - but something like a vacation day), fellowship and worship. Then, though quieter of requirement, there were the individual daily habits of worship.

When earth fell from it's place in the society of heaven through the fall, God retained a presence of the heavenly kingdom on earth - am embassy. For millenia this followed a family line. That family line went through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. That family grew to the nation of Israel. After Christ the embassy went through a metamorphesis to the borderless church. To be in the kingdom of God is to be in church. That statement exceeds the worship practices at a particular location and time. Church is the embassy of God's kingdom on Earth. I am a citizen in His kingdom. I attend church (at partcular times and places) for that is where I find the culture and companionship of my homeland. I live here as a citizen of my homeland. I am commissioned to invite any who will to also become citizens.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Acts 2:42
They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.

Hebrews 10:25
Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.


I enjoy it. I go for growth. An oak tree planted in a desert is not going to survive. It needs water.

Also when one reads Scripture, one comes to the understanding that the mission of the Church, the bottom line as it were, is the forgiveness of sins.

Something I am in constant need of!