Why do people believe in a Rapture?

[Bro.T]

All of the 70th week decreed is still pending for Israel and has never yet taken place

This time is all about Daniel's people of Israel [ not the church of today] .... the coming time of Jacob's trouble

The 69th week of the 70 weeks of years consummated at the Lord's cutting off .... and the prophets are all silent with regard for any events upon the earth until the 70th week begins

Israel has been blinded to this very day concerning their Messiah and King Jesus Christ, but this is going to change during the same 70th week .... a remnant part will turn [the many] and believe [Romans 11:25-36]

When the saving of the fullness of the Gentiles of the nations has been completed, the Lord [the Messiah Prince] will then bring the 70th week and confirm His covenant with the believing remnant of Israel .... it is the other prince [the little horn of Daniel's visions] who will come to invade and desecrate Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple mount [Daniel 11:41; Revelation 11:2]

The Lord will then destroy him and his followers at the Battle of Armageddon [Jeremiah 30:8; Ezekiel 39; Daniel 11:45; Micah 5; Joel 2; 3; Zechariah 14; Revelation 14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21

Thats not true. 70th week of Daniel has been fulfilled all except for the last 3 1/2 years the second coming of Jesus.
It took 69 weeks to bring us to the Messiah, there is only one week left after that, and half of that was fulfilled.
Look closely at Daniel 9:26. First, it said the Messiah shall be cut off and then the people of the prince shall come and destroy the city and sanctuary. Who is the prince? Satan the Devil, Paul called him the prince of the power of the air. Jesus had to teach for three and a half years and then be cut off (killed) so that this very prophecy would be fulfilled.

 

[Bro.T]

Was Stephen appointed to wrath, when he was stoned to death?
Was Paul appointed to God's wrath when the Romans removed his head?

Revelation 12:12 says the trib. is Satan's wrath.


Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


God pours out His wrath, after we are gathered at the end of the trib.

Jesus saved your soul, not your Flesh.

The capital "C" Church is not used at all in the Book of Revelation.
Individual church bodies from ancient Asia Minor are found in the first few chapters of the book.

Quit listening to the fairy-tale coming from the books and pulpits of Dispensationalists.

Prepare for the same persecution seen by our Brothers and Sisters in other nations.

You skipped the second part of the verse that connects chapter 5 to chapter 4 and proves there is no 7 year stay in heaven between the event from 1st Thess. chapter 4 and "The Day of the Lord" in chapter 5.




1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

.

Good verses to prove your point.

 

[Bro.T]

Which part of the 70 weeks of Daniel do you think have been fulfilled ? And why do you believe that the last week have not been fulfilled ?


Daniel 9:24-27

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

70th week of Daniel has been fulfilled all except for the last 3 1/2 years the second coming of Jesus.
It took 69 weeks to bring us to the Messiah, there is only one week left after that, and half of that was fulfilled.
Look closely at Daniel 9:26. First, it said the Messiah shall be cut off and then the people of the prince shall come and destroy the city and sanctuary. Who is the prince? Satan the Devil, Paul called him the prince of the power of the air. Jesus had to teach for three and a half years and then be cut off (killed) so that this very prophecy would be fulfilled.

 

[BABerean2]

The following is from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.


Daniel 9:27


And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

If I agreed to paint your house "after" 69 days, it will not be painted before the 70th day.
Neither the angel Gabriel nor Daniel mentioned a gap in the 490 year prophecy.
Christ was cut off at the 1/2 week point of the 70th week.
After that the Gospel was taken to the Jews for another 1/2 week through the Holy Spirit in the Apostles, up until the time Stephen gave his history of the Jewish people and was stoned to death.



Daniel's 70 Weeks were finished in the first century, based on the words of the angel Gabriel.

.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Straightshot]

"Thats not true. 70th week of Daniel has been fulfilled all except for the last 3 1/2 years the second coming of Jesus"


It is true ..... the Lord's cutting off terminated the 69th week of the 70 weeks of years decreed for Israel [not the church of today]

The Lord has delayed the 70th week because of Israel's rejection of Him as the nation's Messiah and King .... the nation is still in blindness to this very day

And the 70th week will not begin until this [Romans 11:25-36]

Then and only then will the time of Jacob's trouble come [Jeremiah 30]

This pressuring will cause a remnant part of the nation to turn and all 6 objects set out for the "many" will be reached [Daniel 9:24-27]

The Lord will confirm His covenant with the nation by reaching the objectives listed

There are two princes in Daniel 9:26 and 27 .... the Lord, and the other prince

It is the Lord who will confirm His covenant [make good] with the believing remnant .... and the other prince will come to to desecrate at the middle of the future 70th week

The 70th week is all future and relates specifically to the nation of Israel

And it is during this same period [2520 days+30 Days] that the Lord will punish the Gentiles of the nations for refusing to believe the truth about Him .... the coming tribulation period

It is just that simple

The first 1260 days did not take place in the first century, 70 AD was not the time of the end, and the "church" is not national Israel

 

[classicalhero]

There will only be one resurrection for the saints/just.
Therefore it has to come after the last martyrs come in slain for Jesus Christ.
The One does not have the sickle for harvest and reap the earth until those of
Revelation 14 die for their faith.

Philippians 3:11 "If by any means I might attain to the resurrection of the dead.."
He didn't write - whoo - good thing there will be another chance later.
the - as in one
one time only

Revelation 2:19
Revelation 14:12
1 Peter 1:9

[verse=Daniel 12:2;kjv_apocrypha]And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.[/verse]Looks like there are two resurrections according to this verse.
[verse=John 5:25-29;kjv_apocrypha]Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.[/verse]Here Jesus speaks of two resurrections
[verse=Revelation 20:5-6;kjv_apocrypha]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.[/verse]You can't have a first resurrection without a second one. Which is why we have a saying "You are either born once and you die twice, or you are born twice and you dies once".

 

[BABerean2]

[verse=Daniel 12:2;kjv_apocrypha]And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.[/verse]Looks like there are two resurrections according to this verse.
[verse=John 5:25-29;kjv_apocrypha]Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.[/verse]Here Jesus speaks of two resurrections
[verse=Revelation 20:5-6;kjv_apocrypha]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.[/verse]You can't have a first resurrection without a second one. Which is why we have a saying "You are either born once and you die twice, or you are born twice and you dies once".

Have you been "Born Again", as Christ explained to Nicodemus?


Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
This resurrection is "present tense" and occurs at your faith in Christ. You are born again as explained to Nicodemus.

Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. Here we have a future fulfillment and a present fulfillment of two types of resurrections. One is spiritual and the other is bodily. However, they are linked together by the Blood of the Lamb.

Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Here we have the future fulfillment of the bodily resurrection in detail.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
This is the judgment of the dead found in several passages of scripture, but all describing the same event.

The description of the bodily resurrection found in Daniel 12, in Matthew 24, in John 5, in 1st Thess 4, and at several different places in the Book of Revelation are all the same event.

There is one spiritual resurrection upon acceptance of Christ and one bodily resurrection at His Second Coming.

.



.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Bro.T]

"Thats not true. 70th week of Daniel has been fulfilled all except for the last 3 1/2 years the second coming of Jesus"


It is true ..... the Lord's cutting off terminated the 69th week of the 70 weeks of years decreed for Israel [not the church of today]

The Lord has delayed the 70th week because of Israel's rejection of Him as the nation's Messiah and King .... the nation is still in blindness to this very day

And the 70th week will not begin until this [Romans 11:25-36]

Then and only then will the time of Jacob's trouble come [Jeremiah 30]

This pressuring will cause a remnant part of the nation to turn and all 6 objects set out for the "many" will be reached [Daniel 9:24-27]

The Lord will confirm His covenant with the nation by reaching the objectives listed

There are two princes in Daniel 9:26 and 27 .... the Lord, and the other prince

It is the Lord who will confirm His covenant [make good] with the believing remnant .... and the other prince will come to to desecrate at the middle of the future 70th week

The 70th week is all future and relates specifically to the nation of Israel

And it is during this same period [2520 days+30 Days] that the Lord will punish the Gentiles of the nations for refusing to believe the truth about Him .... the coming tribulation period

It is just that simple

The first 1260 days did not take place in the first century, 70 AD was not the time of the end, and the "church" is not national Israel

There are somethings I agree with you on, but this is not one of them. What you saying is not true. You are really off on this and I see you are sold on what you believe. But heres a few question: (1) At what point did these scriptures stop talking about the Jews, Jerusalem, and Jesus? (2) In what area or verse did the scriptures start talking about the beast, or the false prophet? (3) What did Jesus do when he was anointed? Did he die the very same day? No. Jesus did not die the very same day. He had to teach for three and a half years and then be cut off (killed) so that this very prophecy would be fulfilled.

 

[Bro.T]

[verse=Daniel 12:2;kjv_apocrypha]And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.[/verse]Looks like there are two resurrections according to this verse.
[verse=John 5:25-29;kjv_apocrypha]Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.[/verse]Here Jesus speaks of two resurrections
[verse=Revelation 20:5-6;kjv_apocrypha]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.[/verse]You can't have a first resurrection without a second one. Which is why we have a saying "You are either born once and you die twice, or you are born twice and you dies once".

I like that saying.

 

[Straightshot]

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."


To everlasting life:
The first that sleep along with those living at the time .... at the Lord's call for His pre-tribulation church [Revelation 3:10; 20:4 [those on thrones]]

Then His two prophets at the end of the tribulation [Revelation 11:7-12]

.... and then the martyrs at the end of the tribulation [Revelation 6:9-11; 20:4 those beheaded]]


To everlasting shame and contempt:
And the last, at the resurrection to judgment and the second death in His lake of fire [Revelation 20:11-15]

 

[BABerean2]

In all of the passages below we have a resurrection with two groups, one rewarded, and the other punished.

Why would we think they are different events instead of the same event recorded by different humans in similar language, but with one author, the Holy Spirit?


Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.



Joh 5:28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Joh 5:29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.



Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

 

[Straightshot]

Because there are different related scheduled events separated by stated time lapse in scripture

These things you either ignore, or you miss them

Your one shot view is not scriptural .... not even close

.... and your sticking point is keeping you from discovering much truth related to exegetical study

You have a long way to go, but you will never get there until you start

The forum members need to know that Daniel and the other prophets often give the summary book ends of a subject

The details between can be found in other passages of scripture and must not be ignored

Just like 2 Peter 3:10 .... many events will ensue between the "thief" and the "fire", and all can be found in scripture .... these things are not to be thrown into the trash can

 

[BABerean2]

Because there are different related scheduled events separated by stated time lapse in scripture

These things you either ignore, or you miss them

Your one shot view is not scriptural .... not even close

Well, if I could accept the 2 Peoples/ 2 Purposes/ 2 Kingdoms/ 2 or more Gospels/ 2 ways of Salvation (Grace and later Law Keeping)/ Scripture "Rightly Divided" into 2 Parts/ 2 Second Comings of Christ/ Replacing the One Seed of Galatians 3:16 with the many seeds doctrine, then maybe I would be able to see it.

However, I have not taken the Dallas Theological Seminary secret oath of Dispensational Theology.
Therefore, I am not required to force scripture to fit the doctrine.




1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


Heb_9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

1Ti_6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Ti_4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2Ti_4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Tit_2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

1Pe_1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:



1Pe_5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

1Jn_2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

.........................................................................


Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


I believe the words of the angels. He will return just as He left. He will return visibly.

There will not be any "Secret", "Silent", rapture of the Church.

When He returns, every eye will see Him.



Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf

Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) read pages 10-26

http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418

.

 

[Straightshot]

Kicking against the goad is not a good idea B

When one is seen doing this directly against the Lord's state intents there is something suspect

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

There's two reasons why I do not believe in a pre-tribulation rapture.

1.) Too convenient, and an act of neglect: why would the establishment of good Christians on this Earth wish to not be utilized to save others from perdition, including their loved ones?
2.) Such a pre-rapture itself happening: millions of people disappear from Earth. The anti-Christ is a dead giveaway. Even an atheist knows what to do at that point- go live in the deep country and pray until the next bus comes.

In other words, a pre-trib rapture just isn't logical by any practical standpoint.

 

[vinsight4u]

/