Why do people believe in a Rapture?

[Bro.T]

The Lord's Appearing is when a person dies. Then that person is brought before the Lord for judgment. If we read Acts 1:1-12 then we need to consider Saint Stephan testimony. When he was being put to death he beheld the Lord coming for him in the same way the angel in Acts 1:1-12 would say he would come.

Acts 7:55-59
55But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56“Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” 59While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

The book of acts is a sequential log of events that presents Saint Stephan a man from Galilee who saw heaven open and Jesus sitting on the right hand of God. He would even speak to Jesus to say recieve my spirit.

Thats not true. The Lord appearing is not when a persons dies nor will that person be judge right away. Paul says in 2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; So this is when the dead will see the Lord, and this is just the first resurrection in Jesus kingdom. What Stephen saw, the prophet David or King David wrote about in his time. In Psalms 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. Stephen saw this in his time, but David wrote it in his time. See we have read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, brothers and sisters.

In the scriptures its written in Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. How do you lean on the Lord's understanding and not your own? By reading the book without putting a twist on it and taking every word for what it says, you will never go wrong.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[Straightshot]

My comment

No man has gone to heaven except the One who has come down from heaven

 

[n2thelight]

Revelation 12:17 tells of a part of Israel still residing in the nations during the coming 70th week [Luke 21:21]

Revelation 12 is about the Lord, Israel, and Satan during the coming 70th week

Today's "church" is not in view in Revelation 12

You can scream all you want .... but you cannot win with your preteristic/postribulation rant

I see you are in the PT safe house now .... a good place for you to be, the PTR house would work for you as well

The Church is Israel,always has been.....Rev 12 is when satan gets kicked out of heaven,trust and believe,the Church is still here.........

 

[BABerean2]

The Church is Israel, always has been.....Rev 12 is when satan gets kicked out of heaven,trust and believe,the Church is still here.........

Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Anyone who has the testimony of Jesus Christ is a member of the Church.


In Romans chapter 11 Paul starts the chapter with two groups of Israelites, those who bowed to Baal and those who did not.
He ends the chapter with the Israelites who had been blinded to the fact that Christ is the Messiah and the Israelites of the Election, like the Apostles, who had seen the truth.

The Gentile branches were grafted in among the Israelite branches of the Olive Tree.

Those branches broken off, could not have been broken off of the Church, because they were never a part of the Church.

Therefore, the Olive Tree of Romans 11 must be Israel.
Those who claim otherwise are replacing the One Seed with the many seeds.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


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[Straightshot]

The OP question has been side tracked

We all know that the Lord's true ecclesia believe in His intent to keep us from His coming judgment against a world of unbelief .... only makes sense [Revelation 3:10]

And those who refute His intent will end up in the fire line of His judgment .... only fitting [Revelation 3:15-19]

Arguing over this issue is moot .... but it seems to be the big separator today

There is a distinctive line drawn .... one side, or the other .... no middle ground

 

[BABerean2]

The OP question has been side tracked

We all know that the Lord's true ecclesia believe in His intent to keep us from His coming judgment against a world of unbelief .... only makes sense [Revelation 3:10]

And those who refute His intent will end up in the fire line of His judgment .... only fitting [Revelation 3:15-19]

Arguing over this issue is moot .... but it seems to be the big separator today

There is a distinctive line drawn .... one side, or the other .... no middle ground

Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

........................................................................

Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
This is clearly a resurrection and "rapture" into the clouds.

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. At this point the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ forever.

Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
The Judgment of the Dead occurs at the 7th trumpet.
The text could not be any clearer on this matter.
The only way one can come to another conclusion is to ignore what is plainly written in God's Word.

If we could all stop trying to make God's Word fit into our doctrine by ignoring the scriptures that do not fit our doctrine, then we may come to some agreement.

.

 

[Bro.T]

The Church is Israel,always has been.....Rev 12 is when satan gets kicked out of heaven,trust and believe,the Church is still here.........

Thats some good understanding to know that the church is Israel. If people knew who Israel was, then they would know where to seek the true word of God.

 

[Bro.T]

Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

........................................................................

Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
This is clearly a resurrection and "rapture" into the clouds.

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. At this point the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ forever.

Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
The Judgment of the Dead occurs at the 7th trumpet.
The text could not be any clearer on this matter.
The only way one can come to another conclusion is to ignore what is plainly written in God's Word.

If we could all stop trying to make God's Word fit into our doctrine by ignoring the scriptures that do not fit our doctrine, then we may come to some agreement.

.

Thats the first resurrection in Rev 11:18, also thats when the Lord and the saints and angels fight. That all under the seventh trumpet. I post this verse weeks ago.

 

[Straightshot]

"If we could all stop trying to make God's Word fit into our doctrine"


This you should do .... you are at risk with your current thinking

Your choice

 

[BABerean2]

"If we could all stop trying to make God's Word fit into our doctrine"


This you should do .... you are at risk with your current thinking

Your choice

Mat_7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

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[Straightshot]

If the tribulation comes before you die, you have a choice

You can either gain immortality just before .... He will call with no warning, like a thief, so you must be ready before .... because you cannot know the dating

Or, you can wait and enter the tribulation where you will know that His appearance at the end is coming .... you will have plenty of warning by the tribulation events .... no doubt

However, I recommend the first because you will have to repent in the tribulation which will not be easy for you to do given the conditions of the period .... much upheaval, destruction, and deception will abound

If you do enter the tribulation, you will either be killed in unbelief, martyred and will have to wait for your resurrection at the end of the period, or you will survive the tribulation as a mortal after it is over

If you do survive as a mortal believer you will be separated out of all of the survivors and allowed to enter His coming millennial kingdom upon the earth ... as a mortal .... a sheep

If you are found in unbelief you will be rejected from entering .... a goat

His separation of the mortal survivors of the tribulation is not a resurrection experience for any

So if you are looking for a resurrection experience at His gathering of the survivors of Israel and the Gentiles of the other nations after the days of the tribulation, this is not going to happen for you

The next scheduled resurrection after the tribulation period is the one that you do not want to participate in .... the resurrection to the second death of your spirit

This one will put you in His lake of fire .... none participating will be found in His book of life

I am not going to post scriptures about this because you should already know them ... they are all in your Bible

 

[BABerean2]

If you do enter the tribulation, you will either be killed in unbelief, martyred and will have to wait for your resurrection at the end of the period, or you will survive the tribulation as a mortal after it is over

If you do survive as a mortal believer you will be separated out of all of the survivors and allowed to enter His coming millennial kingdom upon the earth ... as a mortal .... a sheep

You are making the assumption that anyone who does not agree with your interpretation cannot already be covered in the Blood of the Lamb. You are ruling out millions who have already passed on and millions of Christians today, who do not believe the Dispensational Doctrine. This makes your doctrine a cult.


Thousands of our Brothers and Sisters all around the world are now being tortured and killed for our faith. For these individual Christians, it cannot get any worse. The history of our faith, since the time of the stoning of Stephen until the present time, is filled with the Blood of the martyrs. It will continue until Christ returns.
This will intensify and become worldwide during the last 3 1/2 years.

We Americans live in a bubble. Many have come to believe that Christ saved our Flesh from persecution.
This is just one facet of the false doctrine that you embrace.

You have rejected and ignored what is plainly written in God's Word.



1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

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[classicalhero]

Why do I believe in the rapture, because according to 1 Thessalonian 5:9 says that we are not appointed to wrath and the Tribulation period is a time of God pouring out hi wrath. Also if you read Revelation the word church (or assembly from the Greek) appears in the first 3 chapters and no where else until right at the end, which is an epilogue to the book to remind us of our duty regarding the book of Revelation.

 

[Riberra]

If the tribulation comes before you die, you have a choice

You can either gain immortality just before .... He will call with no warning, like a thief, so you must be ready before .... because you cannot know the dating

To whom is addressed Isaiah 26:20 if we (alive and remain) will get our immortal body just before the tribulation ?

Isaiah 26
19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

 

[Straightshot]

The Lord is speaking to His nation of Israel .... and specifically the believing remnant that will flee for His protection during the coming time of Jacob's trouble .... the 70th week decreed [Zechariah 14:4-5; Matthew 24:15-16; Revelation 12:6; 12:14]

 

[BABerean2]

Why do I believe in the rapture, because according to 1 Thessalonian 5:9 says that we are not appointed to wrath and the Tribulation period is a time of God pouring out hi wrath. Also if you read Revelation the word church (or assembly from the Greek) appears in the first 3 chapters and no where else until right at the end, which is an epilogue to the book to remind us of our duty regarding the book of Revelation.

Was Stephen appointed to wrath, when he was stoned to death?
Was Paul appointed to God's wrath when the Romans removed his head?

Revelation 12:12 says the trib. is Satan's wrath.


Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


God pours out His wrath, after we are gathered at the end of the trib.

Jesus saved your soul, not your Flesh.

The capital "C" Church is not used at all in the Book of Revelation.
Individual church bodies from ancient Asia Minor are found in the first few chapters of the book.

Quit listening to the fairy-tale coming from the books and pulpits of Dispensationalists.

Prepare for the same persecution seen by our Brothers and Sisters in other nations.

You skipped the second part of the verse that connects chapter 5 to chapter 4 and proves there is no 7 year stay in heaven between the event from 1st Thess. chapter 4 and "The Day of the Lord" in chapter 5.




1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

.

 

[Riberra]

The Lord is speaking to His nation of Israel .... and specifically the believing remnant that will flee for His protection during the coming time of Jacob's trouble .... the 70th week decreed [Zechariah 14:4-5; Matthew 24:15-16; Revelation 12:6; 12:14]

Which part of the 70 weeks of Daniel do you think have been fulfilled ? And why do you believe that the last week have not been fulfilled ?


Daniel 9:24-27

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Straightshot]

All of the 70th week decreed is still pending for Israel and has never yet taken place

This time is all about Daniel's people of Israel [ not the church of today] .... the coming time of Jacob's trouble

The 69th week of the 70 weeks of years consummated at the Lord's cutting off .... and the prophets are all silent with regard for any events upon the earth until the 70th week begins

Israel has been blinded to this very day concerning their Messiah and King Jesus Christ, but this is going to change during the same 70th week .... a remnant part will turn [the many] and believe [Romans 11:25-36]

When the saving of the fullness of the Gentiles of the nations has been completed, the Lord [the Messiah Prince] will then bring the 70th week and confirm His covenant with the believing remnant of Israel .... it is the other prince [the little horn of Daniel's visions] who will come to invade and desecrate Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple mount [Daniel 11:41; Revelation 11:2]

The Lord will then destroy him and his followers at the Battle of Armageddon [Jeremiah 30:8; Ezekiel 39; Daniel 11:45; Micah 5; Joel 2; 3; Zechariah 14; Revelation 14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21

 

[Bro.T]

Why do I believe in the rapture, because according to 1 Thessalonian 5:9 says that we are not appointed to wrath and the Tribulation period is a time of God pouring out hi wrath. Also if you read Revelation the word church (or assembly from the Greek) appears in the first 3 chapters and no where else until right at the end, which is an epilogue to the book to remind us of our duty regarding the book of Revelation.

You miss understanding that verse. It amazes me that people see things with their eyes but then do some totally different from what they see. It must be a strong spirit that pushes in people head to force them to believe things that they can't read. If such an event is to take place, why doesn't the word Rapture appear in the Bible? People have accepted this myth for a very long time. Exactly what does Rapture mean anyway? ("Ecstasy, Intense Spiritual or Emotional Ecstasy") Webster's Dictionary

This doesn't sound anything like what the preachers preach in the churches. What does ecstasy have to do with going to heaven? Yet still, people say that they're going to be raptured off to heaven before the Great Tribulation. And in Revelation 7 chapter we see a multitude of people that came out of the great tribulation and the saints are coming after the great tribulation.