why do jews reject jesus?

[Goatee]

In the new Covenant we are all the new 'Israel'.

 

[fatboys]

In the new Covenant we are all the new 'Israel'.

Actually you have to be adopted into the house of israel

 

[ViaCrucis]

I won't disagree with that but that is hardly worthy of saying the Jews kill their prophets though. As you pointed out it was a wicked king.

Oh I don't think there's any evidence of "Jews kill their own prophets", I was merely offering an example of a prophet who was killed, rather than died a natural death.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LoAmmi]

Oh I don't think there's any evidence of "Jews kill their own prophets", I was merely offering an example of a prophet who was killed, rather than died a natural death.

Thanks. I was aware of the tradition, even though it slipped my mind at the time of my post. Still, I think it would be very hard to make any real claim that we killed the Prophets when it wasn't recorded anywhere and the deaths we are told about in the text are natural.

 

[LoAmmi]

David was a prophet? I've heard Muslims refer to David as a prophet, but never Jews or Christians.

http://www.jewfaq.org/prophet.htm

List of Jewish prophets and prophetesses!

 

[ViaCrucis]

Thanks. I was aware of the tradition, even though it slipped my mind at the time of my post. Still, I think it would be very hard to make any real claim that we killed the Prophets when it wasn't recorded anywhere and the deaths we are told about in the text are natural.

I agree. I think the only thing that could be said is that there were wicked people and false prophets who stood in opposition to the prophets, Elijah and his dealings with Ahab and Jezebel come to mind, or Jeremiah's encounter with Hananiah. These aren't examples of "the Jews killing their own prophets" but of wicked rulers and lying prophets opposing and trying to silence the prophets who were calling people to righteousness and faith in God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LoAmmi]

I agree. I think the only thing that could be said is that there were wicked people and false prophets who stood in opposition to the prophets, Elijah and his dealings with Ahab and Jezebel come to mind, or Jeremiah's encounter with Hananiah. These aren't examples of "the Jews killing their own prophets" but of wicked rulers and lying prophets opposing and trying to silence the prophets who were calling people to righteousness and faith in God.

Yeah, without question there were a number of wicked rulers and such. In fact, once you have the break between the Kingdoms, the North had nothing but wicked kings.

 

[Goatee]

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

14 For you, brothers and sisters,[a] became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you suffered the same things from your own compatriots as they did from the Jews, 15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets,[b] and drove us out; they displease God and oppose everyone 16 by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. Thus they have constantly been filling up the measure of their sins; but God’s wrath has overtaken them at last"

 

[LoAmmi]

Well, I can't debate with Paul, but I would have asked him the same thing; which ones did we kill?

 

[Goatee]

Well, I can't debate with Paul, but I would have asked him the same thing; which ones did we kill?

I understand. But why would he say this if it weren't true?

 

[LoAmmi]

I understand. But why would he say this if it weren't true?

I would probably be in violation of forum rules were I to give my actual opinion on why Paul would say something untrue. It would be unkind.

 

[Goatee]

I would probably be in violation of forum rules were I to give my actual opinion on why Paul would say something untrue. It would be unkind.

I understand.

 

[Goatee]

Matthew 23:37 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
The Lament over Jerusalem
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!

As quoted earlier, am sure 100% of Christians would never doubt the word of Jesus, the true Son of the Living God. Of course, you don't believe in the NT so you are bound to have issues with it.

You have strong faith and belief in the OT just the same as we have strong faith and belief in both the OT and NT.

We can only go on what we truly believe. Faith is all we have. At the end of the Day, God is there for all of us no matter what 'Religion' we follow. Nice to have a discussion on these things though as i have learnt from it.

 

[LoAmmi]

Matthew 23:37 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
The Lament over Jerusalem
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!

As quoted earlier, am sure 100% of Christians would never doubt the word of Jesus, the true Son of the Living God. Of course, you don't believe in the NT so you are bound to have issues with it.

You have strong faith and belief in the OT just the same as we have strong faith and belief in both the OT and NT.

We can only go on what we truly believe. Faith is all we have. At the end of the Day, God is there for all of us no matter what 'Religion' we follow. Nice to have a discussion on these things though as i have learnt from it.

I can't debate Jesus either. I would have asked him which ones too.

 

[Hank77]

I can't debate Jesus either. I would have asked him which ones too.

2Ch 24:20 and the Spirit of God hath clothed Zechariah son of Yehoiada the priest, and he standeth over-against the people, and saith to them, `Thus said God, Why are ye transgressing the commands of Yehovah, and prosper not? because ye have forsaken Yehovah--He doth forsake you.'
2Ch 24:21 And they conspire against him, and stone him with stones by the command of the king, in the court of the house of Yehovah,

 

[LoAmmi]

2Ch 24:20 and the Spirit of God hath clothed Zechariah son of Yehoiada the priest, and he standeth over-against the people, and saith to them, `Thus said God, Why are ye transgressing the commands of Yehovah, and prosper not? because ye have forsaken Yehovah--He doth forsake you.'
2Ch 24:21 And they conspire against him, and stone him with stones by the command of the king, in the court of the house of Yehovah,

Yep, a bunch of corrupt officials and a corrupt king killed that Zechariah (who is not the Zechariah who wrote the book of the same name). Why am I, or any Jews who aren't those officials who stoned him or the king who ordered it, implicated in that death?

Also, we're standing at two prophets dead. One in the text the other according to tradition. How is it fair to say that "the Jews" in general killed the Prophets?

If it is fair to say that, would it be fair if I just say that "the Christians" have killed Jews?

 

[Goatee]

Yep, a bunch of corrupt officials and a corrupt king killed that Zechariah (who is not the Zechariah who wrote the book of the same name). Why am I, or any Jews who aren't those officials who stoned him or the king who ordered it, implicated in that death?

Also, we're standing at two prophets dead. One in the text the other according to tradition. How is it fair to say that "the Jews" in general killed the Prophets?

If it is fair to say that, would it be fair if I just say that "the Christians" have killed Jews?

Christians have murdered many many people over the years!! Thousands!

 

[LoAmmi]

Christians have murdered many many people over the years!! Thousands!

I would never implicate all Christians under that banner. I certainly wouldn't do it because they disagree with me at the time. It is not a fair assessment to the billions of Christians that have existed that never killed a soul. Likewise, saying that "the Jews killed" whatever, is implicating me and my fellows in murders we had nothing to do with regardless. A Christian once told me that because I was a Jew the blood of Jesus was on my hands. I have the blood of someone on my hands simply by existing? That's pretty bad.

 

[Goatee]

I would never implicate all Christians under that banner. I certainly wouldn't do it because they disagree with me at the time. It is not a fair assessment to the billions of Christians that have existed that never killed a soul. Likewise, saying that "the Jews killed" whatever, is implicating me and my fellows in murders we had nothing to do with regardless. A Christian once told me that because I was a Jew the blood of Jesus was on my hands. I have the blood of someone on my hands simply by existing? That's pretty bad.

You shouldn't take things so personally! I know that Christians killed thousands in the past etc but i don't take that personally. Catholics murdered many in the past. I don't take that personally.

 

[LoAmmi]

You shouldn't take things so personally! I know that Christians killed thousands in the past etc but i don't take that personally. Catholics murdered many in the past. I don't take that personally.

You don't have a long, sad history of being oppressed by people calling you Christ-killer. Having the leader of Church at the time lock you in ghettos and deprive you of the ability to work. Of having to debate priests in our own synagogues and then having Talmuds burned and thrown out. It's a bit more than taking it personally with all that history. And, even will all that, I don't see you as part of it. I don't see anybody on this forum as part of it. But the charge that I or we killed prophets and Jesus, that one is a bit touchy. It is probably why you see Robban react the way he has.