Why Catholic and not Orthodox?

[Adam Warlock]

I guess my question is this---why are you Catholic and not Orthodox? For the sake of argument, pretend an Orthodox parish is just down your street and so is a Catholic one. Why do you choose Catholicism over Holy Orthodoxy?

If forced to give a short answer, I'd say that I believe in the special ministry & authority of St. Peter (and his successors), I believe in the Catholic understanding of Original Sin, and I am a huge fan of Catholic devotions. There are many heroes of the faith that I look up to in both Churches, but several of the Western Saints really mean a lot to me for various reasons.

Also, I have found strong anti-Western sentiments in a local Orthodox congregation that seemed overzealous and misplaced. I obviously don't think that all, or even most, Orthodox are that way at all; but that is the way things are here in my area. The change in mindset (from Western to Eastern) and the anti-Western stuff would be problematic for me.

 

[Adam Warlock]

I've also really been blessed by our liturgy, music, and clergy. Maybe this isn't the norm, but my time here has been extraordinarily positive. There's nothing to draw me away. But even if these things changed, I would still fall back on my convictions. If I went East, I would always wonder in the back of my mind if I was wrong to break fellowship with the Pope and the Catholic Church. Here, however, I have no such fears.

 

[ProScribe]

Why Catholic and not Eastern Orthodox?

The Catholic Church is the only one with Peter and the Keys which gives us our Catholic unity. If one prefers an eastern liturgy, we have Eastern Catholic churches that are in communion with Rome. So there is nothing they have that we lack. But they lack Peter.

I'm Catholic-friendly but going to stick with Orthodoxy.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Interestingly enough, the Catholic priests in my area are plain awful. They don't return calls, are late or totally miss funerals, they tell people to use birth control, the Monsignor/pastor of my parish here says the only thing the catechism is good for is putting you to sleep at night, the pastoral care is beyond abysmal, and I had a priest tell me he'd rather watch an NFL game than listen to my sorrow at losing my job ten years ago.

My mom had the former pastor tell her "get to the point already, jeez!" at confession, I had a priest tell my wife that she and I are "sex maniacs" because we didn't like using NFP and found it to be hurting our relationship, and because one priest said to me, "you ask WAY too many questions" at RCIA back in 1991, at my confirmation on the Easter Vigil, he said, "even though I never liked you at all, I'm happy for you tonight."

the liturgy in my area employs up to ten extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist for only around 800 people, everyone holds hands during the Our Father, everyone claps during Mass for this, that, and the other, the music is just horrendous with stuff like "Go Tell it on the Mountain," and "Amazing Grace" or the all-time worst "Gather Us In."

No incense is used EVER, the homilies are awful, the decor is protestantish, and the priests are just out of it.

Yet the Orthodox parish I've attended has no stone unturned, incense, no hymns but rather the liturgy chanted, people cross themselves hundreds of times in the liturgy, reverent icons that amaze and awe, a priest who takes things very seriously and will drive great distances for parishoners (he's in a wheel chair, too!), the friendliest people, reverent kissing of the Cross and the hand of the priest, total liturgical beauty.

There's no vodka pay-offs or insensitive oddities. In my area, that is from the Catholic priests.

In fact, two years ago, one priest came out of the closet and married his boyfriend and we had a few others "come out."

I had one priest at the diocese tell me the Latin Mass was a joke and something needing to be cast off from the Middle Ages.....

I grew up in the Russian Orthodox Church and I saw that the priests were more concerned with how much money and booze you were giving them and could care less about your spiritual lives. One priest almost had my own Dad killed in his church-- long story. A RO priest begged this old lady I know to allow her abusive son back into the house-- she had to listen because the priest told her to do it. And its customary to slip a bottle of vodka to a RO priest after they've said a funeral for a family member. Each RO priest I or my family came in contact with-- and we live in a large Russian area with 5 Russian Orthodox churches within a few miles apart-- each priest (except for one) showed that they were more sinful than spiritual.

When I joined the Catholic Church, God blessed me with such wonderful priests-- Father Ted at my college, Father Tom at home, and now Father Tony at my new parish after I moved. The hymns, the Saints, the feasts, the Rosary, the Eucharist all call me to the Catholic Church.

Don't get me wrong-- I still love walking into Russian Orthodox churches and hearing the chanting and the incense and all the beeswax candles and I love how all the walls are covered in paintings of Saints. But I don't see the leadership there being real Christ-like leaders.

 

[Gwendolyn]

Religion: where church hierarchs are as sinful as the parishioners.

This is brand new information.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

St. John Chrysostom, the great Orthodox patriarch said "the road to Hell is paved with the skulls of the bishops..."

food for thought for some who think their bishop is always right

Religion: where church hierarchs are as sinful as the parishioners.

This is brand new information.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Pray for the priests in your area. It takes time to move mountains, God didnt say how long it would take when He said we could move them.

Just because impatient sinners exist within the Church - does not mean they are the Church.
Trust me, i have had to be patient with the priests we have had - and prayed and prayed for one i could 'relate to'.
And we got one i really like.

Catholicism isnt pick and chose - it is what it is - so pretty much complaining to the priest wont change things. They cant change things. Tho i think the curt response was unnecessary - [NFP thing] he really has no answer - except to tame the desires at certain times. As one poster here does - he talks to his wife at that time and they grow their friendship thru the patience.

All of that aside...

I quoted the council of Ephesus.... because it was the third ecumenical which also included the Copt Orthodox of Egypt. So it was basically THE WHOLE CHURCH...

Again that quote:

<b>The exordium of the speech of Philip is celebrated:

It is doubtful to none, nay it has been known to all ages, that holy and blessed Peter, the prince and head of the Apostles, the column of the Faith, the foundation of the Catholic Church, received from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour and Redeemer of the human race, the keys of the Kingdom, and that to him was given the power of binding and loosing sins, who until this day and for ever lives and judges in his successors. His successor in order and his representative, our holy and most blessed Pope Celestine. . .​

</b>

This is important to note. VERY important and it cannot be stressed enough.


That aside, pray - pray some more - pray for the gifts of wisdom, understanding, fortitude .... and most of all [see my sig] keep knocking - keep working on conforming to the Church - which speaks for Christ.
And please pray for the poor souls of the priests.

God Bless.

Also pray for reunification. You have a lot of Mass intentions to offer.

 

[WarriorAngel]

St. John Chrysostom, the great Orthodox patriarch said "the road to Hell is paved with the skulls of the bishops..."

food for thought for some who think their bishop is always right

Though we do not attack our Bishops - we pray for them. It goes in hand with not smearing anyone;s good name, especially a rep of Christ.
That is not to say we cannot speak to another Bishop regarding a Bishop.

However; do we dare leave the foundation - Peter and his representatives - his successors who take hold of the keys ?

Thats too bold. And it is leaving the foundation Christ established. It just is. And there were other fathers [early] who said Peter was the foundation.

Some have queried if there was wisdom in leaving the Church - for how does one know if they are in THE Church if they leave the Pope.

Think about it.
And again, pray. Its easier to get caught up in what other men do wrong, it is exceptional to overlook it and remain faithful in spite of it and to give up intentions and prayer for their souls that are so imperfect and must face judgment.

No one should be so greatly hated as to dismiss the danger of their souls. Pray.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I actually think this thread works in here.

Some examples how God calls us - the imperfect

^^^

 

[Eretria90]

Interestingly enough, the Catholic priests in my area are plain awful. They don't return calls, are late or totally miss funerals, they tell people to use birth control, the Monsignor/pastor of my parish here says the only thing the catechism is good for is putting you to sleep at night, the pastoral care is beyond abysmal, and I had a priest tell me he'd rather watch an NFL game than listen to my sorrow at losing my job ten years ago.


the liturgy in my area employs up to ten extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist for only around 800 people, everyone holds hands during the Our Father, everyone claps during Mass for this, that, and the other, the music is just horrendous with stuff like "Go Tell it on the Mountain," and "Amazing Grace" or the all-time worst "Gather Us In."

No incense is used EVER, the homilies are awful, the decor is protestantish, and the priests are just out of it.

Yet the Orthodox parish I've attended has no stone unturned, incense, no hymns but rather the liturgy chanted, people cross themselves hundreds of times in the liturgy, reverent icons that amaze and awe, a priest who takes things very seriously and will drive great distances for parishoners (he's in a wheel chair, too!), the friendliest people, reverent kissing of the Cross and the hand of the priest, total liturgical beauty.

I can't comment about everything you posted, but I'll try the best for what I know.

You're going to probably have a few bad apples no matter where you go, regardless of what denomination you belong to. Fortunately for me, I've had nothing but excellent priests at my church. I was actually sad to see some of them go when they were transferred to a different diocese.

Also, this is something I have noticed whenever I visit a Catholic forum, but what exactly irks you with the singing songs and holding hands? I'm no expert, but if someone wants to correct me, holding hands could be seen as "inappropriate" and therefore a possible liturgical abuse. If the holding hands part annoys you, just don't do it. I don't do it during the Our Father; no one will criticize you if you don't.

Do you think we go to mass to be entertained by the music? Is going to mass supposed to be personal entertainment for you? Granted, not all the songs are that great. People try their best for what they have. I believe that is what God cares about; trying our best to please Him knowing we are not perfect.

I do feel sorry that you feel this way, but it isn't about the Church adapting to us, it's about us adapting to the Church. I do like the Orthodox Church, but how do you know the Orthodox Church won't have liturgical abuse? To me, and this is just my opinion, you are almost going with a "feels good" approach to Orthodoxy compared to Catholicism. You're angry, and you think the Orthodox Church will fulfill that emptiness you think exists in Catholic liturgy.

I'm growing quite tired of listening to general online trash-talking of the Novus Ordo mass, whether it's from Traditionalist Catholics who think the NO is heretical or from non-Catholics (Orthodox in this case) who think the NO is just "too Protestant" (which form of Protestant? not all Protestants are the same...). None of those terms make any sense to me, and I'm generally confused as to why some think this way. Both the TLM and NO are the same mass and just as equally as "valid." I have no problem for those that prefer one over the other; but when it comes to trash-talking, claiming one is more valid than the other, one is more heretical, one is more sacred, etc. , that's when I lose my patience and decide such people are not worth my time. Please understand I am not attacking you at all, but websites like CAF and Fisheaters have been on my mind lately.

To answer you original OP, I am Catholic because this is where God has placed me. I have found many Orthodox to be incredibly "westophobic" and many of them are strongly anti-Catholic to the point where they are no better than Evangelical Protestants that belittle us and our faith. I have no problem with Orthodoxy in general, but I will never find any welcome in the Orthodox Church. I will never convert to Orthodoxy because I believe in the Catholic Church, the Magisterium, the Pope, the Bible, Her Saints, and Her Angels. The Latin Church is beautiful and so are all her other Rites.

Also, if you are interested in "eastern" practices, have you tried looking into Eastern Catholic Churches?

 

[ivebeenshown]

Because I believe Christ founded one church with established oversight, and that it makes no sense to have an organization founded on a group of individuals sharing the same position rather than one individual with a special position. In such a case how would the laity know whose side to take if the church were to split in half? But even little children know that kingdoms are led by one man with a special privilege, and Christ did say we must become as children.

 

[Adam Warlock]

...because I believe in the Catholic Church, the Magisterium, the Pope, the Bible, Her Saints, and Her Angels. The Latin Church is beautiful and so are all her other Rites...

 

[Assisi]

A lot of my reasons have already been mentioned. I felt drawn to the Orthodox Church because of their liturgy as well as some Eastern thought. I have young children, and I would have liked them to be confirmed and to be able to receive communion like they could have done if we had been Orthodox, for example. I have an Orthodox Church very close to my home.

But I couldn't bring myself to switch to an Orthodox Church. I feel that they lack the 'final authority' of the See of Rome as the result of the schism, and I think that would leave me a bit at see as a lay person. Like I said, I have young children and I don't have time at the moment to be a theologian. In Catholicism I can know right from wrong, but in Orthodoxy how do I know who to believe? PPs have said it much better than I can.

The things that are lacking in the Catholic Church can change, and are the result of fallen people.

 

[Brooklyn Knight]

My history may be out of sync with this one...but didn't Rome...sort of tell the Byzantine Empire that the next Pope would be in Constantinople?

Nothing against the Orthodox. If I were ever serious at becoming Orthodox, it would be Greek.

I'll just leave it at that.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Dont Orthadox services last for hours, much of the time spent standing? I am not of a strong spiritual or physical constitution so that would be impractical for me.

 

[WarriorAngel]

My history may be out of sync with this one...but didn't Rome...sort of tell the Byzantine Empire that the next Pope would be in Constantinople?

Nothing against the Orthodox. If I were ever serious at becoming Orthodox, it would be Greek.

I'll just leave it at that.

No, Rome never said that.
The Emperor set up Constantinople to be second to the beauty of Rome. It was more about visually pleasing rather than Church authority.
In fact, Constantinople was not a chair of an Apostle. It was a Bishoprick.
Much like the Church of England.
A Bishop was set up - but not a Patriarch.

Constantinople came later - and was not part of the chairs established by the Apostles.

At no time was the Pope to move there. Though the Emperor took many beautiful items from Rome to beautify Constantinople - and tangibly be pleasing than the others [second to Rome] - and the city increased in trade and a city where travelers sought, Increasing commerce for that area.

But the Church isnt going to change the place of the Pope because of earthly needs or beauty.

One Pope left Rome, but he eventually returned. He wanted to stay East.... but he was convicted to return to where the Chair of Peter stands.

NEW ADVENT: Home has a lot of info. Use the search bar. Or go to the 'fathers' for their writings.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Beauty is fleeting. Constantinople is now Turkey and riddled with war - decreased Christians....
It has long lost the original luster and it is not seen as the center of Christianity for the whole world.

Rome has stood the time - it was set apart from the strangers who would war against the others in the Middle East.
Rome - if you ask anyone - is the center of the Ancient Church.

As God said once, if a prophesy passes - it came from My mouth.... He maintained Rome - He ensured that it stood the test of time. It remains beautiful, it remains authority. It stands on the hill - and shows t's light where all the world looks to even if in disagreement, all eyes still look to Rome.

 

[benedictaoo]

I guess my question is this---why are you Catholic and not Orthodox? For the sake of argument, pretend an Orthodox parish is just down your street and so is a Catholic one. Why do you choose Catholicism over Holy Orthodoxy?

I ask this not as a challenge or to argue or smear the Catholic Church. In fact, I'm truly asking for input as to why I should stay Catholic and not go Orthodox? I'm not trying to debate either. Far from it. I'd just like to know your reasons for the choice. I'd like some food for thought.

The reasons are because I am not Greek or eastern, but American of western European dissent and I was born a Catholic and we really never heard of the Orthodox Church growing up here down south (even though this Orthodox Church here On Robert E. Lee Blvd. is the oldest EO Church in the country) they are not a big group here. Few ppl know who and what they are.

But I do not become one now because I do believe based on the bible,"You are Rock and on this Rock I will build my Church", and early history that the pope is who he claims to be...

 

[benedictaoo]

St. John Chrysostom, the great Orthodox patriarch said "the road to Hell is paved with the skulls of the bishops..."

food for thought for some who think their bishop is always right

well that actually supports the Catholic side of things.

The bishop teaches in union with the Pope, not on his own and so if he breaks ranks, then hell may be paved with em' if he teaches out of line with the pope...

 

[seekingfreedom]

"Though we do not attack our Bishops - we pray for them. It goes in hand with not smearing anyone;s good name, especially a rep of Christ.
That is not to say we cannot speak to another Bishop regarding a Bishop.

However; do we dare leave the foundation - Peter and his representatives - his successors who take hold of the keys ?

Thats too bold. And it is leaving the foundation Christ established. It just is. And there were other fathers [early] who said Peter was the foundation.

Some have queried if there was wisdom in leaving the Church - for how does one know if they are in THE Church if they leave the Pope.

Think about it.
And again, pray. Its easier to get caught up in what other men do wrong, it is exceptional to overlook it and remain faithful in spite of it and to give up intentions and prayer for their souls that are so imperfect and must face judgment.

No one should be so greatly hated as to dismiss the danger of their souls. Pray"

it is that type of fear and manipulation that was instilled in me that I now question why I have stayed in the church. Love of God or fear from the Church.

I believe that we should definitely pray for these priests and bishops. However, I think it is dangerous to the souls of these parishioners to stay in a church where these things are happening. I used to believe it, but now that advice scares me.

I don't think the OP is greatly hating anyone, and I don't think he is placing his soul in danger by using all his God given faculties in making his decision to stay or leave.
Where will you Love God and your neighbor the most? Where will you be nourished and strengthened? Where will you find peace and joy? Where will you be able to spread the peace and joy to others? Where is the Holy Spirit leading you? If you are truly searching, you will find where you need to be.
Yes, pray for those who love and hurt you--You can pray for them whether you leave or stay.