Why Are You Saved but Your Neighbor Isn't?

Why are you saved but your neighbor isn't?

  • I'm smarter.

  • I'm more humble.

  • God showed mercy and saved me.

  • "Men love the darkness", but I love the light.

  • I wanted it more.


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jimmyjimmy

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The miraculous God given single free will ability the mature adult has that makes the choice truly his/her choice.

Thanks for evading the question, and I do understand why you did, which means you know I'm correct. There is no other conclusion to come to.
 
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BobRyan

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Why is person A saved, but person B is not? Making it personal, why are you saved and your friend/relative/coworker is not?

What is it about you that caused you to be saved over someone else?

John 1:11 "He came to HIS OWN -- and His own received Him not" --
Luke 7 - the rules of Israel "rejected God's WILL for them"
Matt 23 "O Jersusalem... how I WANTED to save your children..but YOU WOULD NOT"

It has nothing to do with God's initiative, because God's initiative is to "SAVE ALL" -- "He is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" John 2:2

"God sent His Son to be the savior of the WORLD" 1 John 4:14

"God is not WILLING that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance" 2Peter 3

The reason that one is saved and another is not - is not at all because of the mythical doctrine of "arbitrary selection" that some groups employ.

It has to do with free will "whosoever Will may come" - a totally foreign concept to robot-making models where "everything choose was made to happen by somebody else"

Sola scriptura -- is the model I much prefer "in practice"
 
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jimmyjimmy

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If all people have a free choice, and all people are given an equal shot at faith, and if God equally calls everyone, then what is it in you that is lacking in someone else?

With all of this equality and sameness, what's different? On top of that, how is it fair that you have whatever the deciding factor is, but your neighbor doesn't?
 
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EmSw

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If all people have a free choice, and all people are given an equal shot at faith, and if God equally calls everyone, then what is it in you that is lacking in someone else?

With all of this equality and sameness, what's different? On top of that, how is it fair that you have whatever the deciding factor is, but your neighbor doesn't?

Free will not only escapes you, but that which is hidden from you, puzzles you.
 
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bling

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If all people have a free choice, and all people are given an equal shot at faith, and if God equally calls everyone, then what is it in you that is lacking in someone else?

With all of this equality and sameness, what's different? On top of that, how is it fair that you have whatever the deciding factor is, but your neighbor doesn't?

Just because we are “equal” does not mean we are exact clones of each other.

If the “deciding factor” is the small autonomous God given individual ability to make this one decision then it is totally fair, since it is up to the individual. You keep wanting to make it something God decided through giving individual different free will abilities and/or different environments, but that would eliminate the true autonomy (the likeness of God) of the individual allowing the individual to correctly accept Godly type Love and thus become in a small way like God Himself who is “Love”.
 
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mmksparbud

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Yah---that is the question---Lucifer was no different, except maybe more beautiful then the rest, apparently--yet in the midst of perfection--he rebelled and brought others to the rebellion also. Free will sort of sucks, to me. Sometimes I wish I didn't have it and just did always the right thing at the right time without it being such an infernal struggle!!! Then we'd all be ticked off at being forced into obedience!
 
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St_Worm2

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Hey TB, why did you only let us make three choices? Clearly, a complete answer would require 4 of the 5 choices .. all but that middle one. Also, you left out "I'm more likable" and "I'm much better looking and clearly have a far superior fashion sense", oh, and last but certainly not least, "I deserve it". So you really need to redo this poll and allow us to pick up to 7.

Why Are You Saved But Your Neighbor Isn't?
  1. I'm smarter.
  2. I'm more humble.
  3. God showed mercy and saved me.
  4. "Men love the darkness", but I love the light.
  5. I wanted it more.
 
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EmSw

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Hey TB, why did you only let us make three choices? Clearly, a complete answer would require 4 of the 5 choices .. all but that middle one. Also, you left out "I'm more likable" and "I'm much better looking and clearly have a far superior fashion sense", oh, and last but certainly not least, "I deserve it". So you really need to redo this poll and allow us to pick up to 7.

Why Are You Saved But Your Neighbor Isn't?
  1. I'm smarter.
  2. I'm more humble.
  3. God showed mercy and saved me.
  4. "Men love the darkness", but I love the light.
  5. I wanted it more.
St Worm, you forgot to include that you were predestined to be saved.
 
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St_Worm2

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St Worm, you forgot to include that you were predestined to be saved.

Well there you go gett'n all, "Biblical", on us again Em :preach: Anyway, that's kind of a "given" isn't it (i.e. Acts 13:48; Ephesians 1:4-6). But hey, you've got fingers, if you want Brian to add it to the poll, ask him yourself ;)

WYoSYDW.jpg
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Just because we are “equal” does not mean we are exact clones of each other.

If the “deciding factor” is the small autonomous God given individual ability to make this one decision then it is totally fair, since it is up to the individual. You keep wanting to make it something God decided through giving individual different free will abilities and/or different environments, but that would eliminate the true autonomy (the likeness of God) of the individual allowing the individual to correctly accept Godly type Love and thus become in a small way like God Himself who is “Love”.

You think that men are autonomous? How did you come to such a conclusion?

I understand us as dependent creatures, and see the desire for autonomy as the sin of Satan and all of his offspring. Adam's desire to rule himself made him eat of the forbidden tree.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Hey TB, why did you only let us make three choices? Clearly, a complete answer would require 4 of the 5 choices .. all but that middle one. Also, you left out "I'm more likable" and "I'm much better looking and clearly have a far superior fashion sense", oh, and last but certainly not least, "I deserve it". So you really need to redo this poll and allow us to pick up to 7.

Why Are You Saved But Your Neighbor Isn't?
  1. I'm smarter.
  2. I'm more humble.
  3. God showed mercy and saved me.
  4. "Men love the darkness", but I love the light.
  5. I wanted it more.

I'll see if I can edit it to your liking SW. ;)
 
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bling

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You think that men are autonomous? How did you come to such a conclusion?

If humans do not have just the small degree of autonomy to make the one free will choice to accept or reject God’s Charity (Love) in the form of forgiveness there is no way for humans to obtain Godly type Love, since the only way is through being forgiven of an unbelievable debt to automatically receive an unbelievable Love (Godly type Love).

This small degree of autonomy is what makes man in the image of God different from the animals.


I understand us as dependent creatures, and see the desire for autonomy as the sin of Satan and all of his offspring. Adam's desire to rule himself made him eat of the forbidden tree.

Humans do not have the desire to be held accountable for their mistakes and do all they can to blame others. Autonomy does not give you the power to do whatever evil your heart may desire without consequences, yet that type power is what most men seem to desire.

We have the autonomy needed to become like God Himself (Love/selfless), but not the autonomy to be our own selfish type god.

Selfish rulers seem to think they have the autonomy to be held accountable for their choices.

I do not see Adam’s sin as being one of wanting to “rule” himself.
 
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St_Worm2

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I do not see Adam’s sin as being one of wanting to “rule” himself.

Hi Bling, remember that Satan tempted Eve by saying:

"...you will be like God" ~Genesis 3:5

It's hard to believe that she did not plant that very same thought in the mind of her husband since God later informs us that Adam:

"...listened to the voice of his wife" ~Genesis 3:17

And as temptations go, you've gotta admit, that one's a doozie ;)

Yours and His,
David
 
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bling

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Hi Bling, remember that Satan tempted Eve by saying:

"...you will be like God" ~Genesis 3:5

It's hard to believe that she did not plant that very same thought in the mind of her husband since God later informs us that Adam:

"...listened to the voice of his wife" ~Genesis 3:17

And as temptations go, you've gotta admit, that one's a doozie ;)

Yours and His,
David

Good question and comments, David:

Just as you pointed out Adam “listen” to Eve, but God did not say Adam listen to the serpent, so what does “listen” mean since no verbal words are given us?

The fact that no specific words are given us suggest: they may not significant, but the fact Adam “listen” to Eve seems to be in contrast with Adam “listening” to God. So does that mean at the time Adam’s love for Eve was greater than his love for God?

A lot is made of Adam being “with” (Gen 3:6) Eve when this happened, but both the Hebrew and Greek word for “with” is mostly used in contrast to the word “against” and does not have to mean in close proximity. Again, there is nothing to suggest Adam was in close proximity to Eve at this time and a lot to suggest he was not: the fact he would be standing there undeceived knowing that Eve was committing suicide and not saying anything, the fact God does not talk about Adam listening to the serpent, and the fact Adam is not saying anything nor is Eve saying anything to him at the time.

The idea of Adam being “with” Eve at this time seems to be conveying the idea they have grown very close and really had become husband and wife (one).

From 1 Tim. 2: 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

“Adam was not deceived” so how could Adam be tempted to commit suicide?

And from Gen. 3: 16 “…Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”

These passages suggest Adam did something less grievous and/or less harmful to Eve in his sin. Maybe even noble in some respect to be given rule over her?

I always try to put myself into the situation and decide what I might do, in my first year of marriage, my life rotated around my wife and I could not imagine living without her. If my wife at the time had come down with a terminal illness, it would have killed me and I would have wanted to die with her. So was Adam like Romeo in Romeo and Juliet?

Eve was being selfish, but they both lacked a Godly type Love especially for God and that is what caused them to sin, for if they had Loved they would have obeyed?
 
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EmSw

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Good question and comments, David:

Just as you pointed out Adam “listen” to Eve, but God did not say Adam listen to the serpent, so what does “listen” mean since no verbal words are given us?

The fact that no specific words are given us suggest: they may not significant, but the fact Adam “listen” to Eve seems to be in contrast with Adam “listening” to God. So does that mean at the time Adam’s love for Eve was greater than his love for God?

A lot is made of Adam being “with” (Gen 3:6) Eve when this happened, but both the Hebrew and Greek word for “with” is mostly used in contrast to the word “against” and does not have to mean in close proximity. Again, there is nothing to suggest Adam was in close proximity to Eve at this time and a lot to suggest he was not: the fact he would be standing there undeceived knowing that Eve was committing suicide and not saying anything, the fact God does not talk about Adam listening to the serpent, and the fact Adam is not saying anything nor is Eve saying anything to him at the time.

The idea of Adam being “with” Eve at this time seems to be conveying the idea they have grown very close and really had become husband and wife (one).

From 1 Tim. 2: 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

“Adam was not deceived” so how could Adam be tempted to commit suicide?

And from Gen. 3: 16 “…Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”

These passages suggest Adam did something less grievous and/or less harmful to Eve in his sin. Maybe even noble in some respect to be given rule over her?

I always try to put myself into the situation and decide what I might do, in my first year of marriage, my life rotated around my wife and I could not imagine living without her. If my wife at the time had come down with a terminal illness, it would have killed me and I would have wanted to die with her. So was Adam like Romeo in Romeo and Juliet?

Eve was being selfish, but they both lacked a Godly type Love especially for God and that is what caused them to sin, for if they had Loved they would have obeyed?

Maybe those who believe it was Adam's sin which condemned the whole world, should change their belief to 'Eve's sin condemned the whole world'. :redapple:
 
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shakewell

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Why is person A saved, but person B is not? Making it personal, why are you saved and your friend/relative/coworker is not?

What is it about you that caused you to be saved over someone else?
I'm saved because I chose to accept Christ as my Savior with my sovereign free will.
That other guy isn't saved because he chose not to accept Christ as his Savior with his sovereign free will.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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I'm saved because I chose to accept Christ as my Savior with my sovereign free will.
That other guy isn't saved because he chose not to accept Christ as his Savior with his sovereign free will.

OK. So, you were smarter than he was. Is that it?
 
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Why is person A saved, but person B is not? Making it personal, why are you saved and your friend/relative/coworker is not?

Because God wanted it that way. The real question should be, why does an Holy, Righteous, and Just God condescend to save anyone?

What is it about you that caused you to be saved over someone else?

Not a thing. I'm saved in spite of myself, not because of myself.
 
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