Where's Aristotle?

[TexasSky]

So in the end, it is Aristotle's opinions about God that will decide his eternal fate?

Not his opinion.
Faith is far more than an opinion.

 

[TexasSky]

So in the end, it is Aristotle's opinions about God that will decide his eternal fate?

Not his opinion.
Faith is far more than an opinion.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

At least 'sleeping' awaiting his next incarnation (may or may not have been some between that death and now).

What Aristotle, none of us are real, this 'world' is just a butterfly's dream.

Still discussing with God just where he and others belong.

That wasn't what Aristotle believed.

 

[Meshavrischika]

Sometimes I think we read too much into people's writing anyway... This far removed it is hard to tell the motivation. Eh. Philisophical discussions... can't live with them... can't have Discussion & Debate without them..

 

[Crazy Liz]

Opinions? Hmm... interesting thought. Would you consider opinions to be the same as beliefs? I equate beliefs with faith. But opinions, I'm not sure. The demons know God but they have a pretty bad opinion of him.

I pretty much equate beliefs with opinions, and faith with trust. One of my theology professors said in the Bible, the meaning of the word often depends on the preposition used with the verb. The crucial difference is between "believe that" and "believe in."

However, in theological discussions, I often see doctrinal beliefs equated with faith. I think doctrinal beliefs are just our opinions about the best way to describe something we either don't know for sure or don't have adequate language to describe very well. Theories of atonement or metaphors for salvation are matters of opinion, not faith, to my way of thinking. Yet these are often described as beliefs, and not inaccurately.

hahahaha

you're just being the devil's advocate now.

I've been accused of that before. But when someone talks about believing in a different god, what does that mean? Looking at the question from one perspective, one might say someone believes in the wrong god, but one could also say someone is calling God by the wrong name or has different ideas about God.

I don't think there is more than one, no. But other people do. Some people believe in gods and goddesses of different elements of nature. Many OT folks believe in Baal. The Greeks had gods they believed in.

Who did Aristotle believe in? The God of the Bible? Or one of these other gods? I don't know. I don't think anyone can know, except God.

If there is only one "Who" out there, but Aristotle had some misconceptions about God's nature, or if someone else calls God by a different name, or someone else describes God in a distorted way, do they all have faith in the same God, although they use different words and concepts to refer to God? If there is only one God, is it possible to have faith in another god?

If one claims to have faith in a nonexistent god, is it really faith, or just an opinion?

Not his opinion.
Faith is far more than an opinion.

I think faith is far more than opinion, too. But this morning in another thread you seemed to put a lot of stock in opinions. I thought it would be interesting to explore that some more.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Sometimes I think we read too much into people's writing anyway... This far removed it is hard to tell the motivation. Eh. Philisophical discussions... can't live with them... can't have Discussion & Debate without them..

Word.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Sometimes I think we read too much into people's writing anyway... This far removed it is hard to tell the motivation. Eh. Philisophical discussions... can't live with them... can't have Discussion & Debate without them..

Word.

 

[snoochface]

If there is only one "Who" out there, but Aristotle had some misconceptions about God's nature, or if someone else calls God by a different name, or someone else describes God in a distorted way, do they all have faith in the same God, although they use different words and concepts to refer to God? If there is only one God, is it possible to have faith in another god?

If one claims to have faith in a nonexistent god, is it really faith, or just an opinion?

God knew we were going to come up with other gods. The Egyptions had tons of them when God gave Moses the commandment that we not put other gods before him. I think the question becomes, what or who are these other gods? Do they exist or are they just made up by men?

It can, and has, been defined in so many different ways. Some of the gods are, I think clearly, made up by men. Zeus, for example. But some people will define gods the same way they define idols. Some people pray to trees and believe they are gods. Obviously trees are real. Some people say that love of money is an idol and therefore a god. Money is obviously real. I don't think Poseidon was real, but plenty of people believed in him.

If people believe in non-existent gods, they do have faith -- but it's faith in something that doesn't exist. I'm not sure if that makes it an opinion or not. But I don't think that kind of faith does them any good with God. They would be putting other gods before God, because they would not believe in the God of the Bible. Their faith would be in other gods.

What if someone believes in God, one true God, but does not know him? They're just wrong about some of their ideas about him, but they believe he exists? Maybe they infer him through nature and the world around them, but they have no opportunity or means to read the Bible or know, really, who he is. Those people have faith, but their faith is based on incorrect or incomplete information. I like to think that God would be merciful in those situations and credit them with their hearts being in the right place. We can really know, but I hope that is the case. All I know is that he is just.

 

[snoochface]

If there is only one "Who" out there, but Aristotle had some misconceptions about God's nature, or if someone else calls God by a different name, or someone else describes God in a distorted way, do they all have faith in the same God, although they use different words and concepts to refer to God? If there is only one God, is it possible to have faith in another god?

If one claims to have faith in a nonexistent god, is it really faith, or just an opinion?

God knew we were going to come up with other gods. The Egyptions had tons of them when God gave Moses the commandment that we not put other gods before him. I think the question becomes, what or who are these other gods? Do they exist or are they just made up by men?

It can, and has, been defined in so many different ways. Some of the gods are, I think clearly, made up by men. Zeus, for example. But some people will define gods the same way they define idols. Some people pray to trees and believe they are gods. Obviously trees are real. Some people say that love of money is an idol and therefore a god. Money is obviously real. I don't think Poseidon was real, but plenty of people believed in him. But are they really gods? They are to the people who believe in them. That doesn't mean they really exist, or if they exist that they are really gods.

If people believe in non-existent gods, they do have faith -- but it's faith in something that doesn't exist. I'm not sure if that makes it an opinion or not. But I don't think that kind of faith does them any good with God. They would be putting other gods before God, because they would not believe in the God of the Bible. Their faith would be in other gods.

What if someone believes in God, one true God, but does not know him? They're just wrong about some of their ideas about him, but they believe he exists? Maybe they infer him through nature and the world around them, but they have no opportunity or means to read the Bible or know, really, who he is. Those people have faith, but their faith is based on incorrect or incomplete information. I like to think that God would be merciful in those situations and credit them with their hearts being in the right place. We can't really know, but I hope that is the case. All I know is that he is just.

 

[TexasSky]

I pretty much equate beliefs with opinions, and faith with trust. One of my theology professors said in the Bible, the meaning of the word often depends on the preposition used with the verb. The crucial difference is between "believe that" and "believe in."

However, in theological discussions, I often see doctrinal beliefs equated with faith. I think doctrinal beliefs are just our opinions about the best way to describe something we either don't know for sure or don't have adequate language to describe very well. Theories of atonement or metaphors for salvation are matters of opinion, not faith, to my way of thinking. Yet these are often described as beliefs, and not inaccurately.



I've been accused of that before. But when someone talks about believing in a different god, what does that mean? Looking at the question from one perspective, one might say someone believes in the wrong god, but one could also say someone is calling God by the wrong name or has different ideas about God.



If there is only one "Who" out there, but Aristotle had some misconceptions about God's nature, or if someone else calls God by a different name, or someone else describes God in a distorted way, do they all have faith in the same God, although they use different words and concepts to refer to God? If there is only one God, is it possible to have faith in another god?

If one claims to have faith in a nonexistent god, is it really faith, or just an opinion?



I think faith is far more than opinion, too. But this morning in another thread you seemed to put a lot of stock in opinions. I thought it would be interesting to explore that some more.

Faith is not a synonym of the word opinion, though I respect where you are coming from.

Faith is total belief in and total trust in the object or person that you faith in. The only synonym for faith is belief.
You have have belief and faith in a false god.
You can put your trust where it should not be placed.

Belief is literally placing your trust and confidence in another.

Opinion is a a view, a feeling, a sentiment. It is not about trust. It closer to "knowledge" and "thought".
Your opinion that there is a god is not at all the same thing as your faith in that God.

 

[TexasSky]

I pretty much equate beliefs with opinions, and faith with trust. One of my theology professors said in the Bible, the meaning of the word often depends on the preposition used with the verb. The crucial difference is between "believe that" and "believe in."

However, in theological discussions, I often see doctrinal beliefs equated with faith. I think doctrinal beliefs are just our opinions about the best way to describe something we either don't know for sure or don't have adequate language to describe very well. Theories of atonement or metaphors for salvation are matters of opinion, not faith, to my way of thinking. Yet these are often described as beliefs, and not inaccurately.



I've been accused of that before. But when someone talks about believing in a different god, what does that mean? Looking at the question from one perspective, one might say someone believes in the wrong god, but one could also say someone is calling God by the wrong name or has different ideas about God.



If there is only one "Who" out there, but Aristotle had some misconceptions about God's nature, or if someone else calls God by a different name, or someone else describes God in a distorted way, do they all have faith in the same God, although they use different words and concepts to refer to God? If there is only one God, is it possible to have faith in another god?

If one claims to have faith in a nonexistent god, is it really faith, or just an opinion?



I think faith is far more than opinion, too. But this morning in another thread you seemed to put a lot of stock in opinions. I thought it would be interesting to explore that some more.

What thread are you referring to, because I just went through my "own post" listing and do not see what you are talking about.

 

[peter22]

I'm sorry, I missed a lot of the discussion here...I do live in the southern hemisphere. I'll try to butt back in with some comments later but I'm rather enjoying this thread without me annoying people in it...do go on.

 

[Crazy Liz]

You have have belief and faith in a false god.

I do?

 

[Vene]

You have have belief and faith in a false god.

Are you aware that Liz is Christian and you believe in the same god? You just said that Jehovah (or Yahweh, depending on your translation of choice) doesn't exist.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. The Christian god doesn't exist, and neither does heaven or hell. Seeing as Aristotle requested to be buried next to his wife, I'd say whatever is left of him is in Greece.

 

[Crazy Liz]

What thread are you referring to, because I just went through my "own post" listing and do not see what you are talking about.

Well, for one, I thought this was a pretty heavy reliance on opinion:

Rejection of Christ as the only way is rejection of Christ.

IOW, if you have the wrong opinion about Christ, one has rejected Christ?

Or did I misunderstand?

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

So you doubt the intelligence of every Christian simply because you do not share our belief in the most personal part of our lives?

No. If belief in others' eternal damnation bes considered the indispensible core of your faith and the "most personal part of [y]our life" then it does not ONLY doubt your intelligence but pities you supremely. Previously it would have only wanted to be snarky toward ppls like that, but lately it feels more inclined to pray for them because they bes in far worse bondage than it has ever had to know. (Now if it could only exorcise that little twinge of self-righteousness and "nyah nyah" accompanying that otherwise true statement, it might be on track toward where God wants it ... yeah?)

 

[Meshavrischika]

Well, for one, I thought this was a pretty heavy reliance on opinion:



IOW, if you have the wrong opinion about Christ, one has rejected Christ?

Or did I misunderstand?

I've heard people say rejecting the N. Creed is rejection of Christ too... It's all doctrine.

 

[Meshavrischika]

I am aware that Liz has been defending a thread a thread that supports the false teaching that Wiccans can be Christian and Christians can be Wiccans.

And no, we do not agree. The Christian God very much exists.

I don't think she was defending a thread or that Wiccans and Christians are the same. I think she was pushing those who blindly believe to examine their beliefs. That's all.

 

[TexasSky]

I don't think she was defending a thread or that Wiccans and Christians are the same. I think she was pushing those who blindly believe to examine their beliefs. That's all.

We are talking about a VERY different thread, Elsa, and I thank you to stay out of this.

 

[Crazy Liz]

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