Where feminism lost definity the battle...

[Hank]

What hasn´t changed: Media people excuse their poor programs with reference to the fact that people watch them.

@ quatona - (no clue why the quote thing don't work)

Good point, if feminism and reasonable morals don't sell well, why produce it. My guess is that the show in question simply was made to be somewhat controversial and that feminism and morals are still alive and well in the real world.

 

[HannahT]

How does any of this necessarily involve giving your dignity away? I wouldn't say its undignified if that's really want they want to do.

There's nothing wrong with pointing out possible problems, for their benefit, though. But I think that can be done in a non-judgmental way.

I never stated it couldn't be done in a non-judgmental way. It is possible to point some things out without getting people on the defensive. I also think I pointed out it would be to their benefit to know what they are dealing with - and the possible aftermath. That is when you can make the proper decision for your life - one way or the other.

Young people tend not to think about the consequences, but go with the flow of what is popular at the time. Past generations can speak of that.

People can look extremely sexy without having to go to the lengths that they do, and I don't think they realize at times how that portrayal is going to sting later on in life.

I don't hear the loud voices making sure they know this - only ones that applaud them. If they don't realize this reality - how can we say this is something they really want? You can't. They may want it in the moment, but did we set them up to NOT realize the possible regret too?

Dignity to me is: the state or quality of being worthy of honor or respect. The human race has a funny way of qualifying that, and people can claim its not fair or right all they wish - but it doesn't do justice to the consequences that follow. Those are very real for both men and women. We personally may feel differently, but that doesn't change the reality of it.

No doubt the same ones that encouraged them to do this without showing them both sides will also be the ones that mock them in their regret. Their respect and honor of themselves could take a huge hit, and no one wants that.

If people are going to make these decision its only fair they know fully what they are getting into. Not just going along with the crowd - that ruined many people's lifes.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Being in a relationship with someone you can't talk to doesn't sound great.

True, but that isn't my reason for wanting people to be free to live their own lives.

We're never free from the consequences of our choices. Hence, being free to live our own lives is an illusion.

 

[quatona]

Good point, if feminism and reasonable morals don't sell well, why produce it. My guess is that the show in question simply was made to be somewhat controversial and that feminism and morals are still alive and well in the real world.

Yes, the OP almost makes it sound like as long there is no censorship feminism has failed.

In my opinion there is a lot to be discussed about feminism, its successes, its failures and the challenges it´s still facing, but, personally, I wouldn´t base this discussion on the existence of a stupid TV broadcast (which, considering the station that broadcasts DSDS, is almost a tautology).

It´s almost like buying and reading the Bildzeitung, and then complaining that truth isn´t a value anymore.

 

[Paradoxum]

I never stated it couldn't be done in a non-judgmental way. It is possible to point some things out without getting people on the defensive. I also think I pointed out it would be to their benefit to know what they are dealing with - and the possible aftermath. That is when you can make the proper decision for your life - one way or the other.

Young people tend not to think about the consequences, but go with the flow of what is popular at the time. Past generations can speak of that.

I don't think all young people don't think about consequences. Some don't all that much.

People can look extremely sexy without having to go to the lengths that they do, and I don't think they realize at times how that portrayal is going to sting later on in life.

What do you mean?

I don't hear the loud voices making sure they know this - only ones that applaud them. If they don't realize this reality - how can we say this is something they really want? You can't. They may want it in the moment, but did we set them up to NOT realize the possible regret too?

I think you do always get people giving the opposite opinion. There is a place for explaining the potential problems, as long as it's done reasonably.

Dignity to me is: the state or quality of being worthy of honor or respect. The human race has a funny way of qualifying that, and people can claim its not fair or right all they wish - but it doesn't do justice to the consequences that follow. Those are very real for both men and women. We personally may feel differently, but that doesn't change the reality of it.

I'd say all persons are worthy of respect (less so for murderers and rapists).

If people are going to make these decision its only fair they know fully what they are getting into. Not just going along with the crowd - that ruined many people's lifes.

What is it your saying could ruin peoples lives? I think I've lost track of the issue somewhat.

 

[Paradoxum]

We're never free from the consequences of our choices. Hence, being free to live our own lives is an illusion.

I mean being free to live your life without being in violate of the law. That isn't an illusion.

 

[HannahT]

Young people tend not to think about the consequences, but go with the flow of what is popular at the time. Past generations can speak of that.

I don't think all young people don't think about consequences. Some don't all that much.

I was speaking generally - in life there is never any absolutes when it comes to human behavior. I do have to giggle at the fact people always have to place addendums to things now days! I'm not sure I will ever grasp that part of conversations 100%!

People can look extremely sexy without having to go to the lengths that they do, and I don't think they realize at times how that portrayal is going to sting later on in life.

What do you mean?

Do don't think people can look sexy without it all hanging out? I do.

I mean I don't mind the v-necks for example - I'm not talking being a prude. A little skin here and there is no biggie to me. Yet, you can find people that wore tasteless clothes to be cool, and that image came back to bite them in the butt later. This isn't an uncommon concept in life. It doesn't just happen with clothing, but many things. your old enough to know that! I was speaking in general principals.

Today, people just blow those principals off and then complain about the consequences. In this 'I shouldn't have to' generation they don't stop to think that attitude doesn't stop the aftermath....yet they whine about how they shouldn't have to deal with that either. The world will never revolve around them, and to many just can't accept that. Its quite bizarre.

I don't hear the loud voices making sure they know this - only ones that applaud them. If they don't realize this reality - how can we say this is something they really want? You can't. They may want it in the moment, but did we set them up to NOT realize the possible regret too?

I think you do always get people giving the opposite opinion. There is a place for explaining the potential problems, as long as it's done reasonably.

I agree about the reasonable part. Problem is that discussion rarely happens. That is more to my point. People JUMP to conclusions if you bring it up, and it seems always assume the worse. The next thing you know they accuse you of wanting them to wear burka's or some other silly nonsense.

Dignity to me is: the state or quality of being worthy of honor or respect. The human race has a funny way of qualifying that, and people can claim its not fair or right all they wish - but it doesn't do justice to the consequences that follow. Those are very real for both men and women. We personally may feel differently, but that doesn't change the reality of it.

I'd say all persons are worthy of respect (less so for murderers and rapists).

This is true, and I didn't they were NOT! I said the human race as a funny way of qualifying that at times, and people stating that shouldn't be...doesn't change the reality any.

If people are going to make these decision its only fair they know fully what they are getting into. Not just going along with the crowd - that ruined many people's lifes.

What is it your saying could ruin peoples lives? I think I've lost track of the issue somewhat.

Decisions that they thought were COOL at the time that haunt them most of their lifes.

Lets go off topic, because I saw this yesterday. Perfect example of something that will haunt this person.

Yesterday on yahoo some person throwing a tantrum at a local McDonald's, because he/she was upset at his/her boss there over WHO knows what (not sure if it was a man or a woman). Customers video taped this, and uploaded it to the internet.

He trashed the place, and then left his job. If people don't seem to think that video of him isn't going to effect his next potential employer - their dreaming! They can't say it shouldn't all they want to...but in the end it WILL!

Debating the poverty wages or awful work conditions, so he shouldn't be held to account? Not going to be relevant, and they can complain about how that isn't fair all they want to - not going to change the reality for this person. It just isn't.

He may find someone - somewhere to hire him YES. Doesn't change the reality that he will lose out on jobs he wanted, because they don't want to deal with that.

He may grow old and grey and regret that, and sadly its there forever. Some may come around, but that doesn't guarantee the employer he wants will hire him ever.