Where do bad marriages start?
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murron
Matt 5:39, Matt 18:21-22, Gal 5:22-23
I read most of the replies in this thread, and I do agree that many of those issues contribute to a bad marriage - but, I don't think they are the starting point of a bad marriage.
Why do we get married? Do we meet someone say "oh gee, I think I could hate you, let's get married"? No, we meet someone and fall in love. Love conquers all; it is what keeps us from seeing some of those faults that we discover as the monotony of marital life sets in.
When the monotony of marriage sets in we get "comfortable" with each other. The more comfortable you are with someone, the more likely it is that you will feel more free to say things you wouldn't otherwise say. Imagine this: first date, the guy has a booger hanging from his nose. Most women would try to discretely signal this by wiping at their own nose, or even politely suggesting that your date use a kleenex. 5 years into marriage, your spouse has a booger hanging - how do we handle it? "You've got a booger in your nose, go blow it or something", and probably said with a tone that lacks the amount of politeness you would have used when the relationship was new. But, do bad marriages start with hanging boogers? No...
Bad marriages start with bad communication skills. At first we are careful in what we say, how we say it, and when we say it. We are mindful of the other person and their feelings. Once comfort sets in WE feel more comfortable with our feelings and not so hesitant about our spouse's feelings being hurt by off-hand (yet unintentionally hurtful) comments.
So, spouse gets told he has a booger in his nose and at the back of his mind an unformed question arises "why did she point that out so blatently at the dinner table with my mother sitting here?" Spouse doesn't voice anything about it because it's just an emotive response at this point. But then something else similar could happen and that voice gets stronger. By the time any deliberate realization happens, you've got full blown hurt feelings. He either locks it down, or it erupts into a fight. At which point the booger informing spouse goes "huh? What set you off, it was just a booger!!!"
Married people are going to fight. The difference is how they communicate during the fight. Push blame off on the other person, or voice their own feelings about how something has made them feel; Accept responsibility for their own failings or deny any culpability. And at the root of it all is having the tools to communicate effectively with each other. Any given concept which we want to express can be said in 100's of different ways - and all the fine nuances of language impact how our words are received and interpretted. Without understanding that, we can stick our foot in our mouths over and over until so much damage has been done that a couple can't see their way out of it, together.
If a married couple agreed to fine tune their communication methods and be willing to explain not only what they mean when they say something but how they interpret what the other person has said - they can make even the worst of situations survive (provided of course, they sincerely want them to survive). The fact is, none of us are really psychic. We rely on non-verbal clues to fill in the blanks in what our spouses say or don't say. We are also not perfect, which means we are going to misinterpret at least some of those clues (and in many cases we'll misinterpret a LOT of those clues). The only way to avoid that is to have really open communication with each other and to be willing to be honest about the intentions of what we say and reactions to what we hear. Most people don't really take the time to learn this about their spouses.
Two months before hubby and I were married, we started working on this skill. When he would say something that just didn't completely match his body language, I would tell him what I was noticing and ask if he really meant exactly what he said. He did the same with me. This forced both of us to really look at what we had said and if we were being honest in our words. It also helped us both learn to correctly interpret the non-verbal clues we give off. A couple of months into our marriage we had the first of 3 fights in our marriage. We had just moved into our house. We had boxes everywhere. I was in the dining room, he was in the kitchen. Like slow motion, I could see what he was getting ready to do. I was too far away to physically intervene so I did the only thing that came naturally, I yelled at him to stop. I mean YELLED. That raised his ire and he deliberately went ahead and did what he was getting ready to do. This took place in a matter of only three or four seconds. He had a stack of books in his hands and was getting ready to toss them in a box. I knew what was in the box, he didn't. Just a moment after he tossed the books, we heard the sound of shattering glass. We spent the next several hours in a frosty silence. That box had held a set of glass mixing bowls that my grandmother had received from her mother, and passed them on to me. Eventually we realized we had to talk to each other at some point in our lives. So we sat down and talked it out. I didn't place blame on him for breaking them; he hadn't known they were there. He didn't place blame on me for yelling because he realized it really had been the only way I could get his attention in time. We agreed that in the future, if I yelled at him he would stop and hear me out. I agreed that I would only raise my voice if there really were no other way to get his attention. We've stuck by that agreement the last 5 years and haven't had a single fight relating to that kind of issue since.
Good marriages start with effective communication, and bad marriages start with poor communication.
---edited because of typo---
Why do we get married? Do we meet someone say "oh gee, I think I could hate you, let's get married"? No, we meet someone and fall in love. Love conquers all; it is what keeps us from seeing some of those faults that we discover as the monotony of marital life sets in.
When the monotony of marriage sets in we get "comfortable" with each other. The more comfortable you are with someone, the more likely it is that you will feel more free to say things you wouldn't otherwise say. Imagine this: first date, the guy has a booger hanging from his nose. Most women would try to discretely signal this by wiping at their own nose, or even politely suggesting that your date use a kleenex. 5 years into marriage, your spouse has a booger hanging - how do we handle it? "You've got a booger in your nose, go blow it or something", and probably said with a tone that lacks the amount of politeness you would have used when the relationship was new. But, do bad marriages start with hanging boogers? No...
Bad marriages start with bad communication skills. At first we are careful in what we say, how we say it, and when we say it. We are mindful of the other person and their feelings. Once comfort sets in WE feel more comfortable with our feelings and not so hesitant about our spouse's feelings being hurt by off-hand (yet unintentionally hurtful) comments.
So, spouse gets told he has a booger in his nose and at the back of his mind an unformed question arises "why did she point that out so blatently at the dinner table with my mother sitting here?" Spouse doesn't voice anything about it because it's just an emotive response at this point. But then something else similar could happen and that voice gets stronger. By the time any deliberate realization happens, you've got full blown hurt feelings. He either locks it down, or it erupts into a fight. At which point the booger informing spouse goes "huh? What set you off, it was just a booger!!!"
Married people are going to fight. The difference is how they communicate during the fight. Push blame off on the other person, or voice their own feelings about how something has made them feel; Accept responsibility for their own failings or deny any culpability. And at the root of it all is having the tools to communicate effectively with each other. Any given concept which we want to express can be said in 100's of different ways - and all the fine nuances of language impact how our words are received and interpretted. Without understanding that, we can stick our foot in our mouths over and over until so much damage has been done that a couple can't see their way out of it, together.
If a married couple agreed to fine tune their communication methods and be willing to explain not only what they mean when they say something but how they interpret what the other person has said - they can make even the worst of situations survive (provided of course, they sincerely want them to survive). The fact is, none of us are really psychic. We rely on non-verbal clues to fill in the blanks in what our spouses say or don't say. We are also not perfect, which means we are going to misinterpret at least some of those clues (and in many cases we'll misinterpret a LOT of those clues). The only way to avoid that is to have really open communication with each other and to be willing to be honest about the intentions of what we say and reactions to what we hear. Most people don't really take the time to learn this about their spouses.
Two months before hubby and I were married, we started working on this skill. When he would say something that just didn't completely match his body language, I would tell him what I was noticing and ask if he really meant exactly what he said. He did the same with me. This forced both of us to really look at what we had said and if we were being honest in our words. It also helped us both learn to correctly interpret the non-verbal clues we give off. A couple of months into our marriage we had the first of 3 fights in our marriage. We had just moved into our house. We had boxes everywhere. I was in the dining room, he was in the kitchen. Like slow motion, I could see what he was getting ready to do. I was too far away to physically intervene so I did the only thing that came naturally, I yelled at him to stop. I mean YELLED. That raised his ire and he deliberately went ahead and did what he was getting ready to do. This took place in a matter of only three or four seconds. He had a stack of books in his hands and was getting ready to toss them in a box. I knew what was in the box, he didn't. Just a moment after he tossed the books, we heard the sound of shattering glass. We spent the next several hours in a frosty silence. That box had held a set of glass mixing bowls that my grandmother had received from her mother, and passed them on to me. Eventually we realized we had to talk to each other at some point in our lives. So we sat down and talked it out. I didn't place blame on him for breaking them; he hadn't known they were there. He didn't place blame on me for yelling because he realized it really had been the only way I could get his attention in time. We agreed that in the future, if I yelled at him he would stop and hear me out. I agreed that I would only raise my voice if there really were no other way to get his attention. We've stuck by that agreement the last 5 years and haven't had a single fight relating to that kind of issue since.
Good marriages start with effective communication, and bad marriages start with poor communication.
---edited because of typo---
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LynnMcG
A reflection of the Son
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Good answer. And I would like to add, that I think that hardness often results from prideful attitude. Marriage is no place for pride between partners. It's a place of submission, for both. A place where two people should feel safe, always. And where both should ALWAYS feel as though they can talk. I can't tell you how many times I've heard a woman complain about her husband and when you ask, well did you tell him? No. Unless you married a psychic, there's no way for him to know!!!Yitzchak said:
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LynnMcG
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Yes, I do, for a biblical perspective on a situiation. My friend is not someone I go to to tear my husband down or gossip to. She wouldn't allow it, which is why she's so perfect for this. We speak to one another to keep eachother in check. We make sure we're in the word each day. We speak to one another when the kids are making us nuts too because sometimes you need someone to talk you through that stuff too. For a while we were both having trouble getting into the word each day, so we would call every day to make sure we'd read our devotional, Proverb and Psalm.missju said:
An accountability partner does not take the place of my husband. I tell him everything. We talk everyday. But I can't have him calling me from work to make sure I did my reading!
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merryheart
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Lots of things add up to bad marriage, but some of the most important ingredients of a good marriage are:
1) Couple shares goals and values (much more important than sharing common hobbies...)
2) Both are committed to staying married, and to working things out no matter what
3) Neither thinks they have the right to their own way more than the other
4) Both think it is important to "work" at love and keep it alive
1) Couple shares goals and values (much more important than sharing common hobbies...)
2) Both are committed to staying married, and to working things out no matter what
3) Neither thinks they have the right to their own way more than the other
4) Both think it is important to "work" at love and keep it alive
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Wow, that's a tough one...
I think if you stop listening, and stop trying. It takes effort and communication. Also when you take things for granted. I think it's that simple, atleast on a basic level.
mojo
I think if you stop listening, and stop trying. It takes effort and communication. Also when you take things for granted. I think it's that simple, atleast on a basic level.
mojo
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Christi
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I think bad marriages start when a person starts thinking about what they "deserve" that they aren't getting. The next thing is resentment. Then obsession with the spouse's fault or faults, to the point where it overshadows anything good about them. Then your vision becomes cloudy and like tunnel-vision. Then you just can't see the love anymore, to recieve it or give it. You start thinking everything they do has some hidden significance, and the purpose is to hurt you. Then you either withdraw emotionally or fight all the time. Then it usually ends. I think that's what happens in a bad marriage.
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I believe marriages turn bad before people are married. I've seen so many couples get married too young (not that it's bad in all cases), without dating/courting long enough and most importantly, not knowing the CALL of God on their lives.
What has God planned for you? Will you be a pastor? Is your wife-to-be called to be a pastor's wife? Are you called to be missionary? A businessman who supports the church? A serving church member? A SAHM? Too often, people forget to consider their own call to see eye to eye with their future spouse's call.
Before getting married, getting premarital counseling/courses and LISTENING to other people's advice is crucial. What do your parents think of your relationship? What does your pastor think? Is it the right person but the wrong timing?
I think people lack much objectivity in pre-marriage today. And many forget that you don't get married for sex or companionship or security or whatever... but you get married to glorify God, to be a representation of Jesus and His Bride, the Church. If my marriage isn't going to glorify God and be a blessing to others, then why am I considering this marriage? For my own selfish reasons and needs? Marriage is THE place where I must learn to be unselfish and serve the other. God puts a couple together knowing that together they will be more efficient in serving others and winning souls.
So basically, it's the foundation that is the problem in marriages that fail. There are exceptions obviously, where a spouse turns away from God and so on. But the majority of marriages would be saved if people heeded to the Word of God and wise counsel.
What has God planned for you? Will you be a pastor? Is your wife-to-be called to be a pastor's wife? Are you called to be missionary? A businessman who supports the church? A serving church member? A SAHM? Too often, people forget to consider their own call to see eye to eye with their future spouse's call.
Before getting married, getting premarital counseling/courses and LISTENING to other people's advice is crucial. What do your parents think of your relationship? What does your pastor think? Is it the right person but the wrong timing?
I think people lack much objectivity in pre-marriage today. And many forget that you don't get married for sex or companionship or security or whatever... but you get married to glorify God, to be a representation of Jesus and His Bride, the Church. If my marriage isn't going to glorify God and be a blessing to others, then why am I considering this marriage? For my own selfish reasons and needs? Marriage is THE place where I must learn to be unselfish and serve the other. God puts a couple together knowing that together they will be more efficient in serving others and winning souls.
So basically, it's the foundation that is the problem in marriages that fail. There are exceptions obviously, where a spouse turns away from God and so on. But the majority of marriages would be saved if people heeded to the Word of God and wise counsel.
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I like all the responses given so far, especially the ones on honest effective communication by both parties. I just like to add that a good marriage will have a nice balance between individualism and co-dependance. It's a bit of a dance to get the balance right and that's the importance of good communication skills. Each partner needs to have their own identity and and an identity as a couple. There is a necessity for people to draw apart and be themselves, for a time, so that they can come back with fresh vigour and a renewed spirit to the co-dependant part of in their relationship.
In bad marriages their can tend to be a lop-sided co-dependance, in which one person places too many of their dreams and aspirations in the other person and lives their life through that person, rather than living their own life as an individual, as well as a partner. Conversely one partner may be too distant and be too individualistic in the attitude they bring to the marriage. If the goal is a lasting relationship then constant communication about the needs within each partner for more individual expression or more co-dependant expression within the marriage must be addressed on a constant basis in an open and loving manner. It's always going to be dance of love between the partners to achieve this balance between the pushing together and the pulling apart, of individualism and co-dependance.
What I like about the triune relationship of two people under God in a marriage is it brings two people together under the same principles, that is the principles of God. Principles determine attitude and attitude determines direction. If the eye of each partner is firmly focused on God and the principles of God, then the dance of love that I have referred to in the first paragraph, is at least a dance that is going in the same direction. When the guiding principles of the marriage begin to differ, then attitudes are changed and direction changes, which could leave one partner in the dance spiralling right off the dance floor. It's important to be able to address changes in principle that may occur in the marriage over time and be aware of the changes in attitude and direction that this will precipitate. Ideally for any partnership to work, the issues of principles should be worked out well before the marriage vow is taken. If love is blinding one to the principles of your partner, or neither partner really has a grasp of their own guiding principles in life, the foundation for the marriage is always going to be shaky and they are going to be learning and adjusting on the fly, so to speak. The push and pull of individualism and co-dependance can get very messy when you add the additional push and pull of principles leading off on different tangents. It's going to be less so a graceful dance and more so a lot of stepping of each others feet and banging heads like a couple of clumsy amatuer dancers. In the confusion of these interacting forces, and a lack of awareness of their existence, many marriages crumble under the strain and people think the answer might lie in getting a new dance partner. It doesn't have to be that way.
I think this issue of principle, attitude and direction is what is spoken of when it refers in the Bible to not being unequally yoked. We all put on the yoke of principle of one form or another. To stretch the analogy of the yoke a bit further, it's important that people entering into a marriage determine before hand that they are both yoked to the same principles and pulling the same the cart(guided by the same principles), or whether they are hitched to different carts and just happen to be travelling down the same road (together through circumstance). A fork in the road is ahead, call this a choice on a matter of principle, will the two different carts go the same direction?
In bad marriages their can tend to be a lop-sided co-dependance, in which one person places too many of their dreams and aspirations in the other person and lives their life through that person, rather than living their own life as an individual, as well as a partner. Conversely one partner may be too distant and be too individualistic in the attitude they bring to the marriage. If the goal is a lasting relationship then constant communication about the needs within each partner for more individual expression or more co-dependant expression within the marriage must be addressed on a constant basis in an open and loving manner. It's always going to be dance of love between the partners to achieve this balance between the pushing together and the pulling apart, of individualism and co-dependance.
What I like about the triune relationship of two people under God in a marriage is it brings two people together under the same principles, that is the principles of God. Principles determine attitude and attitude determines direction. If the eye of each partner is firmly focused on God and the principles of God, then the dance of love that I have referred to in the first paragraph, is at least a dance that is going in the same direction. When the guiding principles of the marriage begin to differ, then attitudes are changed and direction changes, which could leave one partner in the dance spiralling right off the dance floor. It's important to be able to address changes in principle that may occur in the marriage over time and be aware of the changes in attitude and direction that this will precipitate. Ideally for any partnership to work, the issues of principles should be worked out well before the marriage vow is taken. If love is blinding one to the principles of your partner, or neither partner really has a grasp of their own guiding principles in life, the foundation for the marriage is always going to be shaky and they are going to be learning and adjusting on the fly, so to speak. The push and pull of individualism and co-dependance can get very messy when you add the additional push and pull of principles leading off on different tangents. It's going to be less so a graceful dance and more so a lot of stepping of each others feet and banging heads like a couple of clumsy amatuer dancers. In the confusion of these interacting forces, and a lack of awareness of their existence, many marriages crumble under the strain and people think the answer might lie in getting a new dance partner. It doesn't have to be that way.
I think this issue of principle, attitude and direction is what is spoken of when it refers in the Bible to not being unequally yoked. We all put on the yoke of principle of one form or another. To stretch the analogy of the yoke a bit further, it's important that people entering into a marriage determine before hand that they are both yoked to the same principles and pulling the same the cart(guided by the same principles), or whether they are hitched to different carts and just happen to be travelling down the same road (together through circumstance). A fork in the road is ahead, call this a choice on a matter of principle, will the two different carts go the same direction?
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