I'm not talking about once saved always saved. What is the security of a christian believer. I'm saved and love God and want a relationship with God and want so badly to feel God's love and aceptance. but I never got the love of an earthly dad an have trouble relating to God as Father. I'm scared that I am such a screw up and God will walk out on me like everybody else does. How do I know that at the end of the way that God would accept me and not tell me I've done so many things wrong and I should have been a better christian. Would God even want to hug me and want to be close and tell me he loved me? In Hebrews 4:16 it says to come boldly to God's throne, is it possible to ask God for a hug and actually get it and he not hurt me?
what is the security of the believer?
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If you have accepted Jesus as your savior which you obviously have then right now God see's you as righteous as He see's Jesus. Every sin that you ever committed in the past or in the future is already forgiven. Start believing that you are righteous by faith through grace. Know that you can come to God and say whatever you want, whenever you want. He created you and the thoughts He has about you are always good. He knows how many individual hairs you have on your head so He is not surprised by what is on your mind or what you do.
Religion paints God as this mean old man waiting for you to sin so he can punish you, but the truth is that all of God's punishment and anger was exhausted on the body of Jesus. God can never EVER be mad at you again. You have the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit will never convict you of sin. That is a lie from the pit of hell. The Holy Spirit will always convict you of your righteousness in Christ. Whenever you have the thoughts of condemnation or preachers condemning you, know that its from satan.
Since you are saved you are always righteous, there is nothing that can separate you from the love of Christ. You can never lose your salvation. Jesus said He will never leave you nor forsake you... and He means it. Every single sin was placed on Jesus, so there is no sin that can keep you from heaven for the believer. Once you are saved not even your free will can separate you from Christ. Jesus did all the work for you and all you have to do is believe it. Don't let any preacher or the devil or even other christians tell you otherwise. The gospel is called the good news for a reason. You are not under the law, but you are under grace.
I encourage you to get good teaching on the grace of God. I recommend Joseph Prince. His book Destined to Reign. You can watch some of his broadcasts online at #165 - Prison Break - Freed From Sin Unto Righteouness on Vimeo
Religion paints God as this mean old man waiting for you to sin so he can punish you, but the truth is that all of God's punishment and anger was exhausted on the body of Jesus. God can never EVER be mad at you again. You have the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit will never convict you of sin. That is a lie from the pit of hell. The Holy Spirit will always convict you of your righteousness in Christ. Whenever you have the thoughts of condemnation or preachers condemning you, know that its from satan.
Since you are saved you are always righteous, there is nothing that can separate you from the love of Christ. You can never lose your salvation. Jesus said He will never leave you nor forsake you... and He means it. Every single sin was placed on Jesus, so there is no sin that can keep you from heaven for the believer. Once you are saved not even your free will can separate you from Christ. Jesus did all the work for you and all you have to do is believe it. Don't let any preacher or the devil or even other christians tell you otherwise. The gospel is called the good news for a reason. You are not under the law, but you are under grace.
I encourage you to get good teaching on the grace of God. I recommend Joseph Prince. His book Destined to Reign. You can watch some of his broadcasts online at #165 - Prison Break - Freed From Sin Unto Righteouness on Vimeo
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yeshuasavedme
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Jesus' resurrection is your security, in that He died for you, taking your sins upon Himself, and bearing them away, where they will never be counted against you ever, for He blots them out of the book of deeds.
Jesus is God the Word come in flesh, and He wrote you in His Book of Life numbered your days and designed all your body members before the foundation of the world.
You are made in His very own image, as a person born in Adam, and when Adam fell and we all died as the seed in his loins, as sons of God, and lost the glory and got cast out of Paradise/Eden, He had already made the plan for our redemption back, by coming in the appointed season as the Kinsman-Redeemer.
When you are born again in Christ, He adopts you into His Living Spirit, which is sent into your heart, generating you anew in spirit; which makes you adopted by Him. He promised to never leave you as an orphan, or forsake you, and He is the "Everlasting Father" for everyone who is born into His family.
Seek Him, and you will find Him. Read His Word, and mark His promises. They are for you. The most important thing is to read His promises and believe them.
Be aware that the devil hates you and would seek to drag you down and lie to you, to make you believe Jesus does not love you, or that you are too bad to be saved, and so on and so forth. He lies, and when he tells you those things, then you can know the opposite is true, for Jesus never condemns you in this Gospel age, and His blood covers you and cleanses you and makes you fit to be His adopted child.
If you could be good enough, then Jesus did not need to die. He came to save sinners, and we have all sinned, so He came to save us all.
You might like Derek Prince's teaching, as he was an excellent Bible teacher.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gOUjJr7ik0&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_fresh+div-1r-1-HM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56bvPm3nUF0&feature=related
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Optimax
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First step in that is.
Settle the issue about the integrity of God's Word. In other words;
Do you really believe what He says is true?
As you are working on that keep these scriptures in your thinking.
Rom 10:9-11
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
KJV
If you;
Believe in your innermost being that God raised Jesus from the dead, and.
Confessed with you mouth(out loud where others heard), that Jesus is your Lord.
Then you are saved.
It does not matter how you may feel, what others say, what it may seem like, etc., because;
God said if you do that you are saved.
That is where the integrity of God comes in. Do you think God was kidding when He said that, maybe He really didn't mean it, etc.
God does not lie and what He told us the only reality that there is.
Anytime that thought comes that in some way is designed to make you doubt that you are saved, then just as Jesus defeated the devil with the word of God with "It is written".
So can you. Devil it is written. Then say out loud those verses and tell the devil that is what I did and I am saved cause God said so. Now get out of here devil in the Name of Jesus.
Then he flees just as scripture says he will when we resist him.
Understand what I mean.
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What you say here is wrong.
It is written:
"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away;
for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go,
I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world
concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin,
because they do not believe in Me..."
- John 16:7-9
These are the Lord's own words, sir.
The Holy Spirit does indeed convict His people who fall into error and sin.
In fact, if HE did not, we would end up deceived and right back in our vomit,
twice dead and awaiting judgment yet believing ourselves saved.
He convicts the world of their unbelief; would HE not also convict us,
HIS own, as well when we need correcting? He rebukes and chastens
all those HE loves.
Conviction is a good thing. It's condemnation that we need to be wary of.
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JimB
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My response is that we are secure in Christ as long as we want to be but we have freewill and if we choose to remove ourselves from Christ we also remove ourselves from the security that is found in Him.
~Jim
It’s never about knowing the answers; it’s about living them. ~Stephanie Klein
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When you quote a scripture make sure you quote the whole message Jesus was saying. Here is what Jesus said
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
Now reading this and interpreting it correctly Jesus says the Holy Spirit will only convict the world of 1 sin and that sin is they don't believe in Him. You see that I made it bold. We as believers aren't convicted of sin because we Believe in Him.
The Holy Spirit convicts of righteousness to the believer because Jesus was talking to His disciples. So the Holy Spirit can't convict the believer of sin because all of sin was judged in Jesus Christ. In Hebrews God says I will be merciful to their unrighteousness and the sins and lawless deeds I will remember NO MORE. So if God doesn't remember your sins but the Holy Spirit does... how can a kingdom that is divided stand....this is confusing. Plus why do we need the Holy Spirit to know when we have messed up. How is it little babies know when they sin and do wrong but you need the Holy Spirit to tell you???....Plus I'm sure your wife or husband can do a great job at pointing it out to you if you want.
Romans 8:1 says there is therefore now NO condemnation in Christ. Jesus says satan goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may kill. Then you read in proverbs 20:2 the wrath of a king is like the roar of a lion. So could it be that satan is condemning you with his roar pretending to be the KING and you interpret that as God being mad at you?
Don't come on here preaching your bad news that God will condemn you of sin because if thats the case then God has forgot about Jesus dying on the cross for our sins. ( He didn't forget) When you sin and condemn yourself that's exactly why we need the Holy Spirit to remind us of who we are in Christ. You don't need a reminder of your righteousness in Christ when you don't sin.....
Please don't go around here being the post police and trying to preach bad news to people that are asking serious questions. Jesus never 1 time condemned a sinner only self righteous people that went around condemning sinners (pharisee's) so what side are you on?
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Jimb our free will isn't as powerful as you think. When we are born you are a sinner and under the fall of man and you didn't express any free will in that. But romans 5:17 says "For if because of one man's (Adam) trespass death reigned through that one, MUCH MORE surely will those who receive over flowing grace and the free gift of righteousness reign as kings in like through the one Man Jesus Christ"
Now when you are fist born as a baby you are born a sinner. There is nothing you can do to become righteous, the only way is to be born AGAIN. So when you are born again the only way to become a sinner again would be to be born again in the flesh with your old spirit the first time... which is impossible. If its possible to lose your salvation and God's will is that no one should perish wouldn't it be better for God to kill us as soon as we accept Jesus to ensure we don't lose our salvation??
Again another illustration in marriage. Lets says a wife wants a divorce from her husband but the husband won't give it to her.... they stay married whether the wife likes it or not. Now she can go off and sleep with as many people as she wants but the fact of the matter is that she is still married to her husband.
Now lets look at Jesus as our husband and we are His bride. No matter how much we want a divorce from Him, He said He will NEVER leave us nor forsake us. Now you never leave or forsake someone when times are good only when times are bad. So this means that no matter how bad things are going with you, you are still married to Jesus.... get my drift.
Now when you are fist born as a baby you are born a sinner. There is nothing you can do to become righteous, the only way is to be born AGAIN. So when you are born again the only way to become a sinner again would be to be born again in the flesh with your old spirit the first time... which is impossible. If its possible to lose your salvation and God's will is that no one should perish wouldn't it be better for God to kill us as soon as we accept Jesus to ensure we don't lose our salvation??
Again another illustration in marriage. Lets says a wife wants a divorce from her husband but the husband won't give it to her.... they stay married whether the wife likes it or not. Now she can go off and sleep with as many people as she wants but the fact of the matter is that she is still married to her husband.
Now lets look at Jesus as our husband and we are His bride. No matter how much we want a divorce from Him, He said He will NEVER leave us nor forsake us. Now you never leave or forsake someone when times are good only when times are bad. So this means that no matter how bad things are going with you, you are still married to Jesus.... get my drift.
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It is true, as written in the Word, that Jesus will never leave or forsake us ...
but where does it say ... where it is written ... that we are never free to leave Him?
Even after salvation, our free will is not taken away from us.
God desires that we love Him freely, that it be our choice to do so.
He desires 'relationship' with us. He desires our love.
And so, yes, we are kept by the grace of God, if that is our desire ... 'to be kept' ...
but no man is bound to God against his will.
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The woman at the well.
The moneychangers in the Temple.
His own disciple, Judas.
At the judgment, those who think they did great things for Him, yet knew Him not.
At the marriage supper of the Lamb, those not wearing wedding clothes.
At His return when all things are accounted for, the faithless servant who had buried the talent which had been given him.
These are all people whose sin was not just waved off...in many cases, their sin led to their judgment.
It is a false and misleading abuse of grace you teach, clearly despising our Lord's discipline.
You really do not even know what you are saying, sir.
You do not even understand MY words. I did not say anything
about GOD being "mad at us." I said nothing about GOD
condemning us for our sins...I DID say just the opposite, though,
a fact you conveniently missed.
As to your childish assertion about being the post police...
since you don't seem to get it, here's how this works:
1.) This is a FORUM.
2.) You have something to say. You make a post.
3.) I have something to say about what you have said. I make a post.
4.) Each side participates in the discussion, conveying carefully everything they wish to say.
5.) Respect other's right to speak, having opened your mouth to speak as well.
...Do you understand?
Please don't think you are quite so wise as to be beyond fallibility. All the backs and forths aside,
it is just about the most unwise way to give an answer to any question, serious or otherwise.
Say what else you will...but I only let the Lord do the shepherding, thanks. Clearly, it says we are to "go and sin no more."
And that when we sin, WHEN WE SIN, we have an Advocate with the Father: Jesus Christ the Righteous.
If all our sins were already just gone without anything further from us (by this, I mean our OBEDIENCE, not works),
then why do we even need an advocate for such moments?
In short, we are forgiven, yes...BUT WE HAVE TO STAY REPENTANT! Our GOD hates proud looks and lying tongues.
It is our repentance through the blood of Christ that brings us closer to God.
Please don't try to shove your hermeneutically poor twisting of Scripture down my or anyone else's throat,
while citing other's religious hypocrisies. It brings a kind of reproach upon our witness to the world.
"This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us."
- 1 John 1:5-10
Rather than bold things to try to spin the words there, I will simply let you read the passage for yourself.
The words are quite plain, and in complete agreement with everything I have been saying,
unless you misunderstand my meaning.
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There is a difference between 'conviction' and 'condemnation'.
The Holy Spirit 'convicts', when we are going astray, to lead us back to repentance and nearer to God.
The enemy 'condemns', to hope to lead us to despair, and destroy us.
There is a difference.
You may want to become more familiar with the meanings of these two words,
before you are so quick to reject the ministry of the Holy Spirit.
As Christians living in the world, we need His Help on this journey.
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We can't get "nearer" to God. Where does it say this in the bible. I am under the understanding that we are all IN Christ... so how can we get nearer to God? And this word repentance that people love to through around simply means change your mind. How do we do that? By hearing the word of God preached by a preacher. By reading the bible, by reading good books. Its not by the Holy Spirit convicting us of sin. Read the scripture again, it says the Holy Spirit convicts us of our RIGHTEOUSNESS. There is a difference between righteousness and sin.....
Show me were the bible says the Holy Spirit convicts believers of their sins? Without twisting it around? Where does it say the Holy Spirit convicts us of going astray?
And if you say it depends on us to stay in repentance mode to keep our right standing with God then you would need to be constantly repenting... not just for outward sins but the inward sins too. You would be sin conscious your whole life. If it is up to us to keep your right standing with God you will never ever be sure and confident of your right standing with Him, because you can never be sure you have repented for every single sin. How can you be bold to come and God when you might have forgotten a sin. Jesus came for us already knowing we are sinners. Its no surprise to Him that we keep sinning.
Its a slippery slope to start telling people you are forgiven for all your sins... but you must keep repenting... Thats like saying once your mortgage is paid in full you own your house... but you have to keep paying the bank in order to keep it.... You are either righteous or not....
When you quote scripture say from 1John 1 you need to understand who he was writing to. He is obviously not writing to believers. He is writing to the gnostics who believe there is no sin. Read 1john2 He is writing to believers. He says if we sin we have an advocate with the Father. What is that advocate? Its Jesus' blood. He is the propitiation for our sins. Sins means all sins not just today and yesterday. He is saying WHEN you sin know that Jesus' blood already cleanses you.
When Jesus died for our sins 2000 years ago, all of our sins were in the future. So why is it believers now teach that Jesus only forgives and forgets all your sins up until you are born again. That's mans doctrine. God created time, so He can put all sins past present and future on the body of Christ. If you say He can't then you are saying time is greater than God.
Show me were the bible says the Holy Spirit convicts believers of their sins? Without twisting it around? Where does it say the Holy Spirit convicts us of going astray?
And if you say it depends on us to stay in repentance mode to keep our right standing with God then you would need to be constantly repenting... not just for outward sins but the inward sins too. You would be sin conscious your whole life. If it is up to us to keep your right standing with God you will never ever be sure and confident of your right standing with Him, because you can never be sure you have repented for every single sin. How can you be bold to come and God when you might have forgotten a sin. Jesus came for us already knowing we are sinners. Its no surprise to Him that we keep sinning.
Its a slippery slope to start telling people you are forgiven for all your sins... but you must keep repenting... Thats like saying once your mortgage is paid in full you own your house... but you have to keep paying the bank in order to keep it.... You are either righteous or not....
When you quote scripture say from 1John 1 you need to understand who he was writing to. He is obviously not writing to believers. He is writing to the gnostics who believe there is no sin. Read 1john2 He is writing to believers. He says if we sin we have an advocate with the Father. What is that advocate? Its Jesus' blood. He is the propitiation for our sins. Sins means all sins not just today and yesterday. He is saying WHEN you sin know that Jesus' blood already cleanses you.
When Jesus died for our sins 2000 years ago, all of our sins were in the future. So why is it believers now teach that Jesus only forgives and forgets all your sins up until you are born again. That's mans doctrine. God created time, so He can put all sins past present and future on the body of Christ. If you say He can't then you are saying time is greater than God.
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This is a much more reasonably-stated post,
and one which deserves an answer.
I am going to be somewhat preoccupied tonight,
but I will get back to you on this sometime tomorrow.
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charityagape
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To the OP
I'd agree with an earlier post about choosing right from the start to know and believe that God's Word is the Truth
God is who He says He is.
I look at verses that talk about God's Unfailing Love - that means He is always going to love you, no matter what you have done, no matter if you're a screw up, no matter what others may think of you God's Word says God delights in You.
God's Word talks about your value in so many places
Spend some time in Psalm 139
There's also verses about the crushed in spirit and broken hearted and how God treats those of us like that - God's Word says a bruised reed He will not break. God is very gentle with pain in His children.
God is on your side - If God is for you who can be against you
He is working all things together for the good of those who love Him ...
God is not someone to whom we have to prove ourselves to.. thankfully.. He is under no illusion that we are dust - He knows this and yet His love for us remains unchanged, it is unfailing, it is unconditional.
And that is never going to change because Jesus stands between us and God. Any anger God had Jesus has paid for so that we can enjoy God's love always, every day, all the time, right now
trust in what God says in His Word about how Unfailing His Love is for you and dont listen to anyone else only what God says. The evil one doesnt want you to believe God loves you like this so will try and tell you otherwise but just keep quoting the Truth about God's love for you whenever that happens and the evil one will flee.
I'd agree with an earlier post about choosing right from the start to know and believe that God's Word is the Truth
God is who He says He is.
I look at verses that talk about God's Unfailing Love - that means He is always going to love you, no matter what you have done, no matter if you're a screw up, no matter what others may think of you God's Word says God delights in You.
God's Word talks about your value in so many places
Spend some time in Psalm 139
There's also verses about the crushed in spirit and broken hearted and how God treats those of us like that - God's Word says a bruised reed He will not break. God is very gentle with pain in His children.
God is on your side - If God is for you who can be against you
He is working all things together for the good of those who love Him ...
God is not someone to whom we have to prove ourselves to.. thankfully.. He is under no illusion that we are dust - He knows this and yet His love for us remains unchanged, it is unfailing, it is unconditional.
And that is never going to change because Jesus stands between us and God. Any anger God had Jesus has paid for so that we can enjoy God's love always, every day, all the time, right now
trust in what God says in His Word about how Unfailing His Love is for you and dont listen to anyone else only what God says. The evil one doesnt want you to believe God loves you like this so will try and tell you otherwise but just keep quoting the Truth about God's love for you whenever that happens and the evil one will flee.
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Shamefully enough...I had not read the OP.
I did not realize the context in which
this thread was addressing the topic.
My prior responses were made only to ai3's claims...
It might seem as though I am shaming a broken heart
who is seeking the Lord...
This was not at all my intention.
What gross oversight on my part,
and one worthy of rebuke, at that.
I repent before you all in dust and ashes.
I did not realize the context in which
this thread was addressing the topic.
My prior responses were made only to ai3's claims...
It might seem as though I am shaming a broken heart
who is seeking the Lord...
This was not at all my intention.
What gross oversight on my part,
and one worthy of rebuke, at that.
I repent before you all in dust and ashes.
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I didn't have a good example as a dad either. It took me a long time but now - I know that God is the best dad! He will never leave me nor hurt me. He has given me sooo much that its just hard to describe. One thing one really needs to learn is to let go of the past. There is nothing we can do about the past so no amount of time that we dwell on it in our minds will ever change what has happened.
Philippians 3:13b, 14 . . .but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
When you find your mind drifting to things you can't change or do anything about you need to "Cast down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; (1 Corinthians 10:5) God sees you as His child. He sees you justified, sanctified and redeemed. (1 Corinthians 1:30) If you have asked forgiveness - As far as the east is form the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. (Psalms 103:12) You may remember them but he doesn't.
You know that you should have been treated better and with more love that you were given from your earthly dad so look to your heavenly father because He is love and that is what He will give you.
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