What is the attitude towards transgender people in the Christian Church?

[durangodawood]

No. They can't. It's as though human beings are actually de-evolving to fall for this sort of thing.

I think this is one of those situations in which knowing actual people involved changes ones mind.

 

[Almost there]

I think this is one of those situations in which knowing actual people involved changes ones mind.

I do. It didn't change my mind. I saw them as very, VERY confused people. And very sad people, once you looked beyond the surface. No wonder their suicide rate is around 40%. The transgender issue is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

 

[durangodawood]

I do. It didn't change my mind. I saw them as very, VERY confused people. And very sad people, once you looked beyond the surface. No wonder their suicide rate is around 40%. The transgender issue is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

Oh I think even if its 100% a natural condition for certain people it would still be immensely confusing and incredibly challenging to get along in the world, such as it is.

 

[Almost there]

Oh I think even if its 100% a natural condition for certain people it would still be immensely confusing and incredibly challenging to get along in the world, such as it is.

What do you mean, "natural"?

 

[durangodawood]

What do you mean, "natural"?

Something thats innate to a person rather than culturally conditioned. Part of their biology - or soul, if thats the way you believe.

 

[Almost there]

Something thats innate to a person rather than culturally conditioned. Part of their biology - or soul, if thats the way you believe.

So, if they think they are Napoleon, that would be "natural".

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Well, in all honesty, it does not really matter what our attitude is. It is our Heavenly Father who sets the standard and who decrees His will for the world and for the inhabitants of the world. For we all belong to Him according to scripture.Yes He gives us free will to do what we believe is right. But His desire is for mankind to desire to do His will. Yes we choose, and He allows us to choose to obey Him or disobey.
Deut. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

I have watched some testimonials of regret of some transgendered people and they are most miserable. At the time, they thought having gender reassignment surgery was the right thing to do. Now they regret they did it, but it is too late.
Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

It is my hope that they humble themselves, and repent and be saved.
Proverbs 12:28 In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.

 

[durangodawood]

So, if they think they are Napoleon, that would be "natural".

I dont think so.

 

[Almost there]

I dont think so.

I agree. Kinda like being "transgender" and not just pretending.

 

[JIMINZ]

We will find out if there was any reason to fear god, personally I wonder why a supremely powerful entity who can do all the things god can do according to believers would want to be feared? Fear is such a human emotion.

On the topic of transgender people, I worked at a company 40 years ago where a man went through the gender change process and I honestly feel that he must have been completely certain in his own mind that he was a woman born with a mans body. What that man had to go through was incredible, emotionally as he had to tell his wife and two children, physically with the entire process he went through, the whole process of telling his friends, work colleagues etc. must have been truly horrendous.

I just cannot believe that a person would go through all of that on the basis of a perversion or a delusion, they must be convinced that they were in the wrong body. As medical technology can now help the individual, surely we should be pleased about that and support them in making changes to make them happy and fulfilled.

Christians support all kinds of medical intervention for physical and mental illness, what's so different about this physical and mental issue?

I don't think there is a link to paedophile behaviour or homosexuality, homosexuals in my experience are happy to be male/ female, they are just sexually attracted to the same sex. God made them that way didn't he?

.
It's not fear in the sense you believe it to be.

 

[Cuddles333]

.
If said person could have a sex change and maintain their new Gender assignment, without Hormone Therapy for the rest of their life, then they would truly have become a different Gender than the one they were born as.

An example of what it's like to have a sex change.

A person goes to Mardi Gras they put on a costume and mask, presenting themselves as some Mythological Creature, have they truly become what they are portraying, or have they only changed the facade?

My point is, you can change every single thing about the appearance of a person, but you cannot change the psyche.

There are things which this now woman will never be able to understand, comprehend, or grasp about actually being a woman, her brain was wired as a Male, when he was born, and it cannot be rewired as a Female.

Therefore if a man feels the compulsion to have a sex change, then at some future date decides to get married, isn't that now woman technically participating in a Homosexual relationship?

Yes. She was in nature a lesbian. A homosexual female.

 

[jayem]

Something thats innate to a person rather than culturally conditioned. Part of their biology - or soul, if thats the way you believe.

I agree. Not to go off-topic, but I'm of the opinion that gender dysphoria could be related to BIID. That's the (fortunately) rare condition where a person is convinced that a part of his body is foreign and should be removed. As the link states, there is a mismatch between the mental image and the physical body. Which is similar to what gender dysphorics report. Also like gender dysphoria, the thought pattern begins in childhood. It's a life-long, innate part of the person's psyche. In BIID, usually it's a limb that's involved, and amputation is strongly desired for the person to feel whole and fulfilled. It's a very distressing (and disturbing) condition. Unlike gender dysphoria, BIID patients will self-mutilate themselves so that amputation becomes necessary. Few American surgeons will amputate an otherwise healthy limb, but it is done in Europe. According to the article, in 7 cases amputation was done, and it was effective. And these patients had less post-operative disability than other amputees.

Obviously, it's nearly impossible for most of us to relate to these conditions. BIID clearly isn't the same as gender dysphoria. But I wonder if both aren't caused by some malfunction in the neural circuitry than correlates self-image and body.

Body Integrity Identity Disorder

 

[durangodawood]

I agree. Not to go off-topic, but I'm of the opinion that gender dysphoria could be related to BIID. That's the (fortunately) rare condition where a person is convinced that a part of his body is foreign and should be removed. As the link states, there is a mismatch between the mental image and the physical body. Which is similar to what gender dysphorics report. Also like gender dysphoria, the thought pattern begins in childhood. It's a life-long, innate part of the person's psyche. In BIID, usually it's a limb that's involved, and amputation is strongly desired for the person to feel whole and fulfilled. It's a very distressing (and disturbing) condition. Unlike gender dysphoria, BIID patients will self-mutilate themselves so that amputation becomes necessary. Few American surgeons will amputate an otherwise healthy limb, but it is done in Europe. According to the article, in 7 cases amputation was done, and it was effective. And these patients had less post-operative disability than other amputees.

Obviously, it's nearly impossible for most of us to relate to these conditions. BIID clearly isn't the same as gender dysphoria. But I wonder if both aren't caused by some malfunction in the neural circuitry than correlates self-image and body.

Body Integrity Identity Disorder

If you are right, then the (2) trans people I know are absolutely not suffering from gender dysphoria.

 

[Sister glorious]

Well, in all honesty, it does not really matter what our attitude is. It is our Heavenly Father who sets the standard and who decrees His will for the world and for the inhabitants of the world. For we all belong to Him according to scripture.Yes He gives us free will to do what we believe is right. But His desire is for mankind to desire to do His will. Yes we choose, and He allows us to choose to obey Him or disobey.
Deut. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

I have watched some testimonials of regret of some transgendered people and they are most miserable. At the time, they thought having gender reassignment surgery was the right thing to do. Now they regret they did it, but it is too late.
Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

It is my hope that they humble themselves, and repent and be saved.
Proverbs 12:28 In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.

I just love how you included those scriptures.Amen!!
I have to go and read them in my Bible again but they fit right in with and have highlighted your point quite nicely.

 

[Dave RP]

.
It's not fear in the sense you believe it to be.

Please can you explain that comment?

I always thought that fear of retribution and fear of a loving but occasionally very vengeful god was a big part of organised religion, certainly fear of the consequences of not following the doctrines is a major part of faith, or have I got that wrong?

 

[Kalevalatar]

“The church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints.”

We all are sinners and in equal need of Jesus Christ, who died for our sins.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Please can you explain that comment?

I always thought that fear of retribution and fear of a loving but occasionally very vengeful god was a big part of organised religion, certainly fear of the consequences of not following the doctrines is a major part of faith, or have I got that wrong?

It is reverent awe. Yes you have it all wrong.

 

[Dave RP]

It is reverent awe. Yes you have it all wrong.

Thanks, I'm not certain I understand the difference but thanks for the explanation.

I must say, that would be a great name for your local Vicar wouldn't it - here comes Reverend Awe!!!!

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Thanks, I'm not certain I understand the difference but thanks for the explanation.

I must say, that would be a great name for your local Vicar wouldn't it - here comes Reverend Awe!!!!

You have never experience awe? That's a pity. That's funny, what you said about reverend awe.

 

[Dave-W]

That's funny, what you said about reverend awe.

I think I knew him ...