What is the attitude towards transgender people in the Christian Church?

[jayem]

IMHO it is the sin nature that is inherited to all human beings. It manifests itself in various ways.

Yes, I have heard that. Is sin also the reason babies are born with Down Syndrome, and congenital heart defects, and spina bifida? I suppose our sinful nature is also why children get leukemia, Hodgkin's Disease, and brain tumors.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Yes, I have heard that. Is sin also the reason babies are born with Down Syndrome, and congenital heart defects, and spina bifida? I suppose our sinful nature is also why children get leukemia, Hodgkin's Disease, and brain tumors.

It is not that a person committed sin. It is the fallen state of humanity. I think you may not understand what happened in the Garden of Eden and the heavy consequence of that particular sin. You see, before the fall, death did not exist, only life. There was no sickness, no disease, no abnormality.Man was created perfect, in God's image. But when man sinned, his whole nature changed and he was separated from Father God, and, thereafter, all of his progeny bore that horrible taint of sin which separated him from Father God. This is why there is sickness. Sin nature is death. That is why Lord Jesus told Nicodemus "You must be born again." You see the flesh is already dead in trespasses and sin. But it is the Holy Spirit that gives life and restores our relationship to Father God.
1 Cor. 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

This is why our loving Heaven Father gave His only begotten Son so that sin could no longer have dominion over mankind. And this gift is to all who believe on the Son.When Lord Jesus died on the cross, His blood cleanses us from the taint of the sin nature to all who receive Him as their Lord and Savior. If you look at the life of Lord Jesus, He healed all who came to Him. He is still doing that today.

 

[Sister glorious]

The transgendered person who has gone through with the sexual reassignment surgery can still be converted to Christ.Nothing is impossible with Him.
Now if that transgendered person accepts Christ I believe that through the truth of the holy spirit that person would come to realize that they made a terrible mistake having the surgery in the first place.I've never met one but I have met men who dress like women and I know that men wearing women's clothing and cosmetics it's not the same as a man who believes that he is really a woman.I'm not too sure about any of this but I do know that Scripture makes it plain that when God created them male and female that was exactly what He meant them to be as far as reproductive organs go. Sexual identity these days is whatever people want it to be and they have the option to change it through surgey which I can imagine is a really painful process and then they have fake parts added and are sterile. Not that people who arent transgendered cant be sterile too.I say just put it in the Lord's capable hands and welcome them into His church building. Love can build a bridge but hate destroys and corrupts.

 

[JIMINZ]

I ask this because I went with a friend to a church recently and the sermon was on "Is gender fluid".

The Vicar was arguing from a Christian perspective that there are only 2 genders made by god and that people who feel they are the other gender or who have a genetic problem requiring gender re-alignment should accept themselves as god made them and not receive any treatment.

he al;so was appalled that the Church of England is considering bringing in prayers to welcome newly gender reassigned individuals to the church.

His stance felt to me to be very un-Christian, I wondered what others felt.

.
If said person could have a sex change and maintain their new Gender assignment, without Hormone Therapy for the rest of their life, then they would truly have become a different Gender than the one they were born as.

An example of what it's like to have a sex change.

A person goes to Mardi Gras they put on a costume and mask, presenting themselves as some Mythological Creature, have they truly become what they are portraying, or have they only changed the facade?

My point is, you can change every single thing about the appearance of a person, but you cannot change the psyche.

There are things which this now woman will never be able to understand, comprehend, or grasp about actually being a woman, her brain was wired as a Male, when he was born, and it cannot be rewired as a Female.

Therefore if a man feels the compulsion to have a sex change, then at some future date decides to get married, isn't that now woman technically participating in a Homosexual relationship?

 

[Dave RP]

It's already been mentioned by another, but I don't think we can pose a question like this and word it like "What is the attitude...in the Christian Church?" In one way or another that question has to be made more specific. I assume that you know already that it is possible to find churches that are on each side of this issue, as it would be with a lot of other controversies.

Maybe I should have said - "What are the opinions of the broad range of Christians who are members of this discussion forum" as that was what I was trying to find out.

 

[Hidden In Him]

IMHO it is the sin nature that is inherited to all human beings. It manifests itself in various ways.

Agreed. Personally, I don't regard it as an "illness" at all. It's simply a perversion, on par with beastiality, S&M, pedophila, and numerous other expressions of sexual deviancy.

Do the varied personalities of human beings lend themselves to such perversions? Certainly they do. A person who is especially drawn to children can be lured into desiring sexual intimacy with them if he (or she) does not resist the temptation. So, too, can a person with a greater affinity for the same sex, or whose personality lends itself more to manifesting the traits of the opposite sex, be lured into desiring to a sex change, or at the very least into playing the part of the opposite gender during sex.

Does this mean such urges are an "illness"? No. Even husbands and wives can sometimes "switch roles" during sex because of the dynamics of their personalities and their relationship together. It simply means urges to practice sexually deviant acts outside what God has commanded are a sexual lust and a kink, and must therefore be resisted.

Granted, the atheist and the unbeliever have no reason to resist such urges, since they have no fear of God and no faith in His existence.

Time will tell if there was reason to fear Him or not.

 

[Dave RP]

Agreed. Personally, I don't regard it as an "illness" at all. It's simply a perversion, on par with beastiality, S&M, pedophila, and numerous other expressions of sexual deviancy.

Do the varied personalities of human beings lend themselves to such perversions? Certainly they do. A person who is especially drawn to children can be lured into desiring sexual intimacy with them if he (or she) does not resist the temptation. So, too, can a person with a greater affinity for the same sex, or whose personality lends itself more to manifesting the traits of the opposite sex, be lured into desiring to a sex change, or at the very least into playing the part of the opposite gender during sex.

Does this mean such urges are an "illness"? No. Even husbands and wives can sometimes "switch roles" during sex because of the dynamics of their personalities and their relationship together. It simply means urges to practice sexually deviant acts outside what God has commanded are a sexual lust and a kink, and must therefore be resisted.

Granted, the atheist and the unbeliever have no reason to resist such urges, since they have no fear of God and no faith in His existence.

Time will tell if there was reason to fear Him or not.

We will find out if there was any reason to fear god, personally I wonder why a supremely powerful entity who can do all the things god can do according to believers would want to be feared? Fear is such a human emotion.

On the topic of transgender people, I worked at a company 40 years ago where a man went through the gender change process and I honestly feel that he must have been completely certain in his own mind that he was a woman born with a mans body. What that man had to go through was incredible, emotionally as he had to tell his wife and two children, physically with the entire process he went through, the whole process of telling his friends, work colleagues etc. must have been truly horrendous.

I just cannot believe that a person would go through all of that on the basis of a perversion or a delusion, they must be convinced that they were in the wrong body. As medical technology can now help the individual, surely we should be pleased about that and support them in making changes to make them happy and fulfilled.

Christians support all kinds of medical intervention for physical and mental illness, what's so different about this physical and mental issue?

I don't think there is a link to paedophile behaviour or homosexuality, homosexuals in my experience are happy to be male/ female, they are just sexually attracted to the same sex. God made them that way didn't he?

 

[Hidden In Him]

We will find out if there was any reason to fear god, personally I wonder why a supremely powerful entity who can do all the things god can do according to believers would want to be feared?

This has to do with government. The Living God has promised to establish His kingdom on earth, and even in good government there is and would always be a need for the exercise of power, or at least the threat of it.

I just cannot believe that a person would go through all of that on the basis of a perversion or a delusion, they must be convinced that they were in the wrong body. As medical technology can now help the individual, surely we should be pleased about that and support them in making changes to make them happy and fulfilled.

If a person spends an entire life resisting repressed desire, then yes. I can fully believe they would, if there is no fear of God there.

Christians support all kinds of medical intervention for physical and mental illness, what's so different about this physical and mental issue?

The Day of Judgment.

I don't think there is a link to paedophile behaviour or homosexuality, homosexuals in my experience are happy to be male/ female, they are just sexually attracted to the same sex. God made them that way didn't he?

Not sure I understand your point here.

 

[Dave RP]

This has to do with government. The Living God has promised to establish His kingdom on earth, and even in good government there is and would always be a need for the exercise of power, or at least the threat of it.


If a person spends an entire life resisting repressed desire, then yes. I can fully believe they would, if there is no fear of God there.


The Day of Judgment.


Not sure I understand your point here.

I was responding to your point where you said:

"Do the varied personalities of human beings lend themselves to such perversions? Certainly they do. A person who is especially drawn to children can be lured into desiring sexual intimacy with them if he (or she) does not resist the temptation. So, too, can a person with a greater affinity for the same sex, or whose personality lends itself more to manifesting the traits of the opposite sex, be lured into desiring to a sex change, or at the very least into playing the part of the opposite gender during sex."

Someone wanting a sex change is not a paedophile, wanting to have sex with children is something so far removed from the discussion in this thread, I don't believe it should have been brought up personally.

Sexual conduct between consenting adults is one thing, inflicting sexual conduct on minors is another, have I clarified sufficiently.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Sexual conduct between consenting adults is one thing, inflicting sexual conduct on minors is another, have I clarified sufficiently.

This is the argument I assumed you were making, only it didn't seem to be worded clearly so I was asking for clarification. Thanks. I don't like assuming anything, since I don't enter such conversations looking for strife; only to openly discuss.

But the problem with using this argument with a Christian is that it is dismissing his or her values and beliefs as invalid. The behavior is deemed a sin in scripture, and on parallel with other forms of sexual deviancy.

I believe you were asking Christians what their attitudes were, and what we regard as sin is dictated by the word of God rather than the views of secular society.

 

[Dave RP]

This is the argument I assumed you were making, only it didn't seem to be worded clearly so I was asking for clarification. Thanks. I don't like assuming anything, since I don't enter such conversations looking for strife; only to openly discuss.

But the problem with using this argument with a Christian is that it is dismissing his or her values and beliefs as invalid. The behavior is deemed a sin in scripture, and on parallel with other forms of sexual deviancy.

I believe you were asking Christians what their attitudes were, and what we regard as sin is dictated by the word of God rather than the views of secular society.

yes indeed that what what I was asking, and thanks for the response.

Of course I am aware that there are many differing views amongst Christians regarding same sex relationships, liberals in the Church of England have been supporting same sex marriage for soem time and the Church of England has many openly gay vicars and at least one Bishop. I am sure there are also similar contrasting opinions on transgender matters in the organised church. The reason for the question was to try to gauge how the Christian community on this forum felt.

 

[Hidden In Him]

yes indeed that what what I was asking, and thanks for the response.

Of course I am aware that there are many differing views amongst Christians regarding same sex relationships, liberals in the Church of England have been supporting same sex marriage for soem time and the Church of England has many openly gay vicars and at least one Bishop. I am sure there are also similar contrasting opinions on transgender matters in the organised church. The reason for the question was to try to gauge how the Christian community on this forum felt.

If you were looking for a consensus, I doubt you'll find it. You'll get every view under the sun here.

 

[Dave RP]

If you were looking for a consensus, I doubt you'll find it. You'll get every view under the sun here.

I am aware of the lack of consensus in Christians, my current partner is a Christian and it was following a visit to church with her that I posted the question. Her church is on the less liberal side of the Church of England and I find soem of what they preach quite shocking and significantly different to what the mainstream church seems to say, particularly on this kind of subject.

 

[Nithavela]

I ask this because I went with a friend to a church recently and the sermon was on "Is gender fluid".

The Vicar was arguing from a Christian perspective that there are only 2 genders made by god and that people who feel they are the other gender or who have a genetic problem requiring gender re-alignment should accept themselves as god made them and not receive any treatment.

he al;so was appalled that the Church of England is considering bringing in prayers to welcome newly gender reassigned individuals to the church.

His stance felt to me to be very un-Christian, I wondered what others felt.

It's a sin, but so are 10 other things you did since breakfast. (you know which)

 

[Hidden In Him]

I am aware of the lack of consensus in Christians, my current partner is a Christian and it was following a visit to church with her that I posted the question. Her church is on the less liberal side of the Church of England and I find soem of what they preach quite shocking and significantly different to what the mainstream church seems to say, particularly on this kind of subject.

Yes, but then the Church of England is considered very liberal in comparison with other more conservative denominations, so in the end you have to get down to brass tacks on actually discussing the scriptures in question. Conservative theologians tend to view liberal theologians as explaining away the clear intent of the scriptures on the grounds of "cultural context." But this argument falls flat on closer analysis of the actual wording used in both the New and Old Testaments.

It's a long and somewhat heady argument, but along with scripture the conservatives also have church history on their side as well. But then there are those with hateful attitudes, who express their disdain for homosexuals and transgenders by showing no respect or concern for their person. I don't do this. I actually find homosexuals very enjoyable people to be around most of the time, and this is a discussion I'd rather not have with them. But then I have strong reasons for believing in the God of scripture, and I believe we will all have to stand before Him one day to give an account for our lives, so I feel obligated to express my beliefs whenever the subject is brought up.

 

[Almost there]

Does that matter?

Yes. If a guy thinks he's Napoleon, do you humor him? Do you buy him a uniform for Christmas. Do you pass laws requiring people to call him general? Or do you try to get him help?

Same thing.

 

[jayem]

Yes. If a guy thinks he's Napoleon, do you humor him? Do you buy him a uniform for Christmas. Do you pass laws requiring people to call him general? Or do you try to get him help?

Of course. But until we learn how to reprogram the brain, the only help that may work is gender reassignment.

 

[Almost there]

Of course. But until we learn how to reprogram the brain, the only help that may work is gender reassignment.

I don't think that is any kind of help. Maybe the only help is to NOT help. Reality is a great teacher.

 

[durangodawood]

Yes. If a guy thinks he's Napoleon, do you humor him? Do you buy him a uniform for Christmas. Do you pass laws requiring people to call him general? Or do you try to get him help?

Same thing.

I dont think anyone else can properly be Napoleon. Napoleon set a standard for being Napoleon that will probably never be exceeded.

But people can switch genders. So its different.

 

[Almost there]

But people can switch genders. So its different.

No. They can't. It's as though human beings are actually de-evolving to fall for this sort of thing.