What Does This Say About Me?

[seeker2122]

I've been a Christian for as long as I can remember (born into a Christian household, went to church since I was a baby),
baptized as an infant, confirmed my baptism in my teens and officially accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior in my early teens.
I've been serving in church since my teens and now I'm in my 40s.

But I am honest with myself. I do not pretend that I am right with God or that I am a good Christian. If anything, I truly believe
I am a poor example of a real follower of Christ. I often have the longing and passion for ministry and want to know Jesus more
and his Word, but most of the time I find myself seeking things for my own life rather than thinking about sacrificing myself for others.

I have a love for my fellow church members, children, students, people I know etc. But I found myself not having much of a care or
interest in the lost, the poor, the suffering, the people in other countries who are in worse shape than me. I don't have a love or longing
to pray for them, to want to go to missions and sacrifice my life for that cause. I do however have a passion for my own church and my
own church events, members, and building relationships with them. I also focus heavily on my own life, wanting to be married, wanting
to experience deep intimacy with another person, have good friendships deeply rooted in Christ, and actively be involved in my church
ministry. But whenever I hear other people share their heart and passion for missions and poor people halfway around the world, I realize
how shallow my love is. It's not agape level yet. It's still stuck in eros, phileo, storge level. But these missionaries have a heart for people
they don't even know and I can see and hear in their voices how big their love is for complete strangers.

Honestly, for me, I don't want to spend any energy or time for strangers I don't know unless God brought them into my life, I am not fishing
or going out of my way wanting to find them and help them with love. I don't have much love for people of the world. I only care about my
immediate circle of friends, family, and I want to get married and experience the life of being a husband, a father, and having a family. It sounds
really selfish. It probably is. But at the same time, why do I have to feel so bad about it as if I am wishing for a sinful thing? So many people
in my church have found love, intimacy, romance, got married, matured, grew, had a family, have kids and being the good dad now and living
that life (difficult as it may be....still...isn't it worth it?). So this tells me that my level of love is not mature.

But I don't believe that everyone out there who is currently married can honestly tell me your life and your love for God was where it should have
been before you got married. Lots of people found someone even when they weren't Christians or near mature, perfect, wise, good Christians.
Why does it feel like it's wrong to approach wanting to find intimacy and be in a relationship or get married while I am still not a good or mature
Christian? Was there some kind of rule that says God only blesses you with a husband or wife once you have a perfect walking relationship with Jesus
and living out the perfect Christian life? I've seen people meet and get married before all that happened but after they got married, their maturity
level grew, their faith grew, and became better Christians after it.

 

[BobRyan]

I've been a Christian for as long as I can remember (born into a Christian household, went to church since I was a baby),
baptized as an infant, confirmed my baptism in my teens and officially accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior in my early teens.
I've been serving in church since my teens and now I'm in my 40s.

But I am honest with myself. I do not pretend that I am right with God or that I am a good Christian. If anything, I truly believe
I am a poor example of a real follower of Christ. I often have the longing and passion for ministry and want to know Jesus more
and his Word, but most of the time I find myself seeking things for my own life rather than thinking about sacrificing myself for others.

I have a love for my fellow church members, children, students, people I know etc. But I found myself not having much of a care or
interest in the lost, the poor, the suffering, the people in other countries who are in worse shape than me. I don't have a love or longing
to pray for them, to want to go to missions and sacrifice my life for that cause. I do however have a passion for my own church and my
own church events, members, and building relationships with them. I also focus heavily on my own life, wanting to be married, wanting
to experience deep intimacy with another person, have good friendships deeply rooted in Christ, and actively be involved in my church
ministry. But whenever I hear other people share their heart and passion for missions and poor people halfway around the world, I realize
how shallow my love is. It's not agape level yet. It's still stuck in eros, phileo, storge level. But these missionaries have a heart for people
they don't even know and I can see and hear in their voices how big their love is for complete strangers.

Honestly, for me, I don't want to spend any energy or time for strangers I don't know unless God brought them into my life, I am not fishing
or going out of my way wanting to find them and help them with love. I don't have much love for people of the world. I only care about my
immediate circle of friends, family, and I want to get married and experience the life of being a husband, a father, and having a family. It sounds
really selfish. It probably is. But at the same time, why do I have to feel so bad about it as if I am wishing for a sinful thing? So many people
in my church have found love, intimacy, romance, got married, matured, grew, had a family, have kids and being the good dad now and living
that life (difficult as it may be....still...isn't it worth it?). So this tells me that my level of love is not mature.

But I don't believe that everyone out there who is currently married can honestly tell me your life and your love for God was where it should have
been before you got married. Lots of people found someone even when they weren't Christians or near mature, perfect, wise, good Christians.
Why does it feel like it's wrong to approach wanting to find intimacy and be in a relationship or get married while I am still not a good or mature
Christian? Was there some kind of rule that says God only blesses you with a husband or wife once you have a perfect walking relationship with Jesus
and living out the perfect Christian life? I've seen people meet and get married before all that happened but after they got married, their maturity
level grew, their faith grew, and became better Christians after it.

Good on you for choosing to deal honestly with your own self. Amen!

Rev 3 - describes this as the Laodicean condition. (We are currently in the 7th church - which is Laodicea)

14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:​

The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Origin of the creation of God, says this:​

15 ‘I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. 16 So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have no need of anything,” and you do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked, 18 I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to apply to your eyes so that you may see. 19 Those whom I love, I rebuke and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. 21 The one who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat with My Father on His throne. 22 The one who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”​

You know the gospel.. you assume you are saved.. you think that things people did for you while you were an infant somehow influences your standing with God.

you formally "officially" accepted Christ as a Teen - but what exactly is that? Were you just going through the motions in your POV as you reflect on it today?

You are right that what

===============================

Here is what the Bible says about the assurance of salvation -

Rom 8:12 So then, brothers and sisters, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13 for if you are living in accord with the flesh, you are going to die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons and daughters of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons and daughters by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him. (NASB)

16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. (NKJV)

That is not a by faith alone statement - rather it is an actual "experience". There are for sure "by faith alone" conditions where almost nothing is "experienced" -- but this Romans 8 event is an actual "experience". A case where your own spirit and the Holy Spirit interact -- communicate with each other - and "bear witness" together.

To be honest - how often does that "witness" happen in your life?

IT is a bit like a student in a class that never gets his graded home work, quizes, tests returned -- who then has a 1 to 1 conference with the teacher. That conference is the "experience" of assurance - the rest of the time it is by faith.

 

[seeker2122]

Good on you for choosing to deal honestly with your own self. Amen!

Rev 3 - describes this as the Laodicean condition. (We are currently in the 7th church - which is Laodicea)

14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:​

The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Origin of the creation of God, says this:​

15 ‘I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. 16 So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have no need of anything,” and you do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked, 18 I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to apply to your eyes so that you may see. 19 Those whom I love, I rebuke and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. 21 The one who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat with My Father on His throne. 22 The one who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”​

You know the gospel.. you assume you are saved.. you think that things people did for you while you were an infant somehow influences your standing with God.

you formally "officially" accepted Christ as a Teen - but what exactly is that? Were you just going through the motions in your POV as you reflect on it today?

You are right that what

===============================

Here is what the Bible says about the assurance of salvation -

Rom 8:12 So then, brothers and sisters, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13 for if you are living in accord with the flesh, you are going to die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons and daughters of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons and daughters by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him. (NASB)

16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. (NKJV)

That is not a by faith alone statement - rather it is an actual "experience". There are for sure "by faith alone" conditions where almost nothing is "experienced" -- but this Romans 8 event is an actual "experience". A case where your own spirit and the Holy Spirit interact -- communicate with each other - and "bear witness" together.

To be honest - how often does that "witness" happen in your life?

IT is a bit like a student in a class that never gets his graded home work, quizes, tests returned -- who then has a 1 to 1 conference with the teacher. That conference is the "experience" of assurance - the rest of the time it is by faith.

I barely witness to anyone nor do I have a desire to witness to anyone because my own life is quite an embarrassment, who am I to tell others that they should be like me because I am a Christian? That's why I don't have a desire to witness. I do have a desire to encourage people. I have a desire to be kind to people, to build them up, to listen to them, make them feel comfortable, make them feel heard......I have a desire for intimacy, and to get to know people and pray for them. But I don't have a desire to witness as in evangelize on the streets or to my friends or missions overseas in poor countries.... strange that I lack a heart, interest, or desire for it but I am a Christian? How is this possible. I have very little care or interest for people I don't know. I don't want to know them. I only want to focus on the people in my life at this moment. I only care about my immediate circle, even if it is small. I don't have a heart that is crying out for the lost peoples in this city or country or world. I don't care at all. I only care about my family, my friends, my church.....probably about 20 people in total or less.

I do however have a huge heart for street cats, dogs, animals....I rescue them, I try to save them and do what I can for them...feed them, give them shelter, etc.

 

[BobRyan]

I barely witness to anyone nor do I have a desire to witness to anyone because my own life is quite an embarrassment, who am I to tell others that they should be like me because I am a Christian? That's why I don't have a desire to witness. I do have a desire to encourage people. I have a desire to be kind to people, to build them up, to listen to them, make them feel comfortable, make them feel heard......I have a desire for intimacy, and to get to know people and pray for them. But I don't have a desire to witness...I do however have a huge heart for street cats, dogs, animals....I rescue them, I try to save them and do what I can for them...feed them, give them shelter, etc.

Consider this teaching of Christ --

Matt 24:​

32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: as soon as its branch has become tender and sprouts its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door....​

​

36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 At that time there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left."​

Suppose you and your family are driving down the highway and you find out the bridge is out ahead - and cars are going off the bridge into the river -- if you see an off ramp do you urge the driver to take the exit or do you think to yourself that this does not concern you?

Jesus reminds us in Matt 24 that God gave an "off ramp" to mankind before the flood -- and nobody took the exit -- except 8 people.
Jesus tells us - that it will be like that at the end. We live in the time of the end.

There is a lot of urgency in the Word of God - related to those who live at the end.

I will send a link to a sermon on that subject -- if you are interested.

In the mean time - take a look at this free online world class commentary on the life of Christ. Very easy to read and it has a lot of motivating information.

Desire of Ages

 

[Diamond7]

Why does it feel like it's wrong to approach wanting to find intimacy and be in a relationship or get married while I am still not a good or mature
Christian? Was there some kind of rule that says God only blesses you with a husband or wife once you have a perfect walking relationship with Jesus

Yes, I waited 17 years for a wife. God does not change, he was waiting for me to change. If you want mature Christian women you need to use the right bait. You need to be a mature Christian man. Lean not on your own understanding and truth in God that He knows what He is doing.

I was actually missionary dating. Which a lot of people object to. Also, I was working and making my own money to support what I was doing. So I was doing all three at the same time. A lot of women want the best Christian man they can find. They think they will get someone that does not smoke, drink, do drugs or cheat on them.

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

"...They think they will get someone that does not smoke, drink, do drugs or cheat on them."

Is this not true for Christian men as well?

 

[Diamond7]

Is this not true for Christian men as well?

Yes of course, my first wife and I were ships passing in the night. She was wanting to walk away from the church and I was drawing closer to God and the church. The main thing I learned about that was don't get married if it is going to end up in a divorce. It is way more trouble than it is worth. Although there are a lot of good successful marriages out there. For me marriage was for life. It did not turn out that she felt that way about it.

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

Yes of course, my first wife and I were ships passing in the night. She was wanting to walk away from the church and I was drawing closer to God and the church. The main thing I learned about that was don't get married if it is going to end up in a divorce. It is way more trouble than it is worth. Although there are a lot of good successful marriages out there. For me marriage was for life. It did not turn out that she felt that way about it.

Yes, I've had a similar experience. Married again many years later and more successfully.

 

[seeker2122]

I don't know why you haven't found someone to marry

husband transferred into place where I was working while finishing college
he was in mgmt & would come around & talk with people, including me
one day he asked me out
we both had volunteered in our churches....me as a lector & Sunday school teacher
we went to church together when dating
we both just clicked with each other & were in our 20s
after many years together, we still like each other which I feel is important to getting along

I'm not sure why you haven't found anyone but I do know one has to actively look & take chances on people
husband wasn't the "type" I usually dated but I said "yes" to going out....he was kind & considerate/still is

You are right. I have to be active and take chances. I barely take chances or ask anyone out. But I get so depressed
when I try one time and it fails so the fear of wanting to try again prevents me.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I've been a Christian for as long as I can remember (born into a Christian household, went to church since I was a baby),
baptized as an infant, confirmed my baptism in my teens and officially accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior in my early teens.
I've been serving in church since my teens and now I'm in my 40s.

But I am honest with myself. I do not pretend that I am right with God or that I am a good Christian. If anything, I truly believe
I am a poor example of a real follower of Christ. I often have the longing and passion for ministry and want to know Jesus more
and his Word, but most of the time I find myself seeking things for my own life rather than thinking about sacrificing myself for others.

I have a love for my fellow church members, children, students, people I know etc. But I found myself not having much of a care or
interest in the lost, the poor, the suffering, the people in other countries who are in worse shape than me. I don't have a love or longing
to pray for them, to want to go to missions and sacrifice my life for that cause. I do however have a passion for my own church and my
own church events, members, and building relationships with them. I also focus heavily on my own life, wanting to be married, wanting
to experience deep intimacy with another person, have good friendships deeply rooted in Christ, and actively be involved in my church
ministry. But whenever I hear other people share their heart and passion for missions and poor people halfway around the world, I realize
how shallow my love is. It's not agape level yet. It's still stuck in eros, phileo, storge level. But these missionaries have a heart for people
they don't even know and I can see and hear in their voices how big their love is for complete strangers.

Honestly, for me, I don't want to spend any energy or time for strangers I don't know unless God brought them into my life, I am not fishing
or going out of my way wanting to find them and help them with love. I don't have much love for people of the world. I only care about my
immediate circle of friends, family, and I want to get married and experience the life of being a husband, a father, and having a family. It sounds
really selfish. It probably is. But at the same time, why do I have to feel so bad about it as if I am wishing for a sinful thing? So many people
in my church have found love, intimacy, romance, got married, matured, grew, had a family, have kids and being the good dad now and living
that life (difficult as it may be....still...isn't it worth it?). So this tells me that my level of love is not mature.

But I don't believe that everyone out there who is currently married can honestly tell me your life and your love for God was where it should have
been before you got married. Lots of people found someone even when they weren't Christians or near mature, perfect, wise, good Christians.
Why does it feel like it's wrong to approach wanting to find intimacy and be in a relationship or get married while I am still not a good or mature
Christian? Was there some kind of rule that says God only blesses you with a husband or wife once you have a perfect walking relationship with Jesus
and living out the perfect Christian life? I've seen people meet and get married before all that happened but after they got married, their maturity
level grew, their faith grew, and became better Christians after it.

One thing I keep seeing in reading your OP, and even in some of your responses. You seem to take someone else's word for what you should think. It is good to be teachable, and nothing wrong with aspiring to admirable things. Kind of reminds me of the difference between the worldview of an extrovert given to Evangelism vs the mindset of introvert Bible apologist.

But when you get married, it sounds to me like you will still find yourself 'unsure' and 'teachable', or, at least, wanting to be that, yet not finding what SHE will tell you to be useful —and it will get worse. She may come to resent you for not listening, and you may be resentful for her trying to lead you. I speak here from personal experience, but I am not you.