What Covenant did Israel break with the Golden Calf

Studyman

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1) Do we know that every man, woman, child and suckling worshiped the idol?

2) God destroyed those who sinned (Ex 32:33-35), which death is the consequence for transgression, as it was in the Garden (Ge 2:17).

Yes, God turned away from them, killing all who sinned (Ex 32:33).

So then, who was Moses talking to here?

Ex. 32: 30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.

I guess God lied in Ex. 34: 10. And Eve was also never forgiven her sin.

"And the rest of the story." You omitted v.11: "Obey what I command you today."

I didn't "Omit" this undeniable Truth, I was pointing to the fact that Moses had to secure another Covenant because Israel broke the one God brought them into in Ex. 19.

So what exactly is your point about "Obey what I command you today.?

Did God not point out to you in His Mercy, in the New Testament "To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation."

What covenant did God ever Give to anyone "Ever" in the Entire Bible, that didn't include honoring and respecting Him in obedience to His Instruction in Righteousness?

Please show me just ONE.

Which I see that as a renewal of the covenant of Ex 19-24, as seen in Ex 34:10-27, where Ex 34:18-26 are quoted almost verbatim from the previous Ex 23:14-19.

Where is the Command prior to this, concerning every man bringing animals to a Levite Priest and Kill it, that their sin might be forgiven?

Can you show me?

I see Ex 34:10 as a renewal of Ex 19:5-6 because both are conditioned on the same Mosaic laws.

God's Righteousness is God's Righteousness. Every agreement HE ever made with humans, even with Cain, included repentance, turning to God, and doing righteous works that HE before ordained that we should walk in them.

What would a world be like with religious men making their own righteousness, their own religious businesses, their own Commandments, their own Judgments, their own man-made shrines of worship. Their own sabbaths, their own high days, their own images of God in the likeness of whatever suits them, a golden calf, or a long-haired handsome man, etc.?

It's chaos, pridefulness to the point where you and I can't even have an honest discussion about Scriptures, because this world has concluded that God's Righteousness is a "Yoke of Bondage".

The Jesus "of the Bible" said to "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and "HIS" Righteousness". The religious philosophies of this very worldly religious system that already existed in the World God placed us in, is centered around the destruction of the "Mosiac Law", whatever that is. The Jesus of the bible said not to even "THINK" such a thing.

So in closing. God gave Israel another covenant after the Golden Calf, that of course, included HIS Righteousness as it does in all agreements God makes with men, but HE also "ADDED" Priesthood Laws, concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices that didn't exist in the Covenant Israel Broke. You have not been taught this, but it is what the Law and Prophets teach.

Jer. 22: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

But as the Jesus of the Bible teaches; "And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
 
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Clare73

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So then, who was Moses talking to here?
Those he caught worshiping the calf.
God rejected Moses offer, and punished those who sinned (Ex 32:33).
I didn't "Omit" this undeniable Truth, I was pointing to the fact that Moses had to secure another Covenant because Israel broke the one God brought them into in Ex. 19.

So what exactly is your point about "Obey what I command you today.?
You omitted the condition of the renewal, which was the same as the former.
Did God not point out to you in His Mercy, in the New Testament "To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation."
What covenant did God ever Give to anyone "Ever" in the Entire Bible, that didn't include honoring and respecting Him in obedience to His Instruction in Righteousness?
Please show me just ONE.
What do we find in Ge 9:8-17, or Ge 15:9-21?
Where is the Command prior to this, concerning every man bringing animals to a Levite Priest and Kill it, that their sin might be forgiven?
Can you show me?
God's Righteousness is God's Righteousness. Every agreement HE ever made with humans, even with Cain, included repentance, turning to God, and doing righteous works that HE before ordained that we should walk in them.
What would a world be like with religious men making their own righteousness, their own religious businesses, their own Commandments, their own Judgments, their own man-made shrines of worship. Their own sabbaths, their own high days, their own images of God in the likeness of whatever suits them, a golden calf, or a long-haired handsome man, etc.?
It's chaos, pridefulness to the point where you and I can't even have an honest discussion about Scriptures, because this world has concluded that God's Righteousness is a "Yoke of Bondage".
The Jesus "of the Bible" said to "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and "HIS" Righteousness". The religious philosophies of this very worldly religious system that already existed in the World God placed us in, is centered around the destruction of the "Mosiac Law", whatever that is. The Jesus of the bible said not to even "THINK" such a thing.

So in closing. God gave Israel another covenant after the Golden Calf, that of course, included HIS Righteousness as it does in all agreements God makes with men, but HE also "ADDED" Priesthood Laws, concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices that didn't exist in the Covenant Israel Broke. You have not been taught this, but it is what the Law and Prophets teach.

Jer. 22: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

But as the Jesus of the Bible teaches; "And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
 
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daq

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Israel broke God's Covenant HE brought Abraham and Israel under.

The passages you quoted do not support your assertion.


The Greek text in the Hebrews quote reads from the Septuagint which is incorrect. The Hebrew text contains the word for marriage in verb form, but which most render as the noun form of the same word, (ba'al, a husband).

Jeremiah 31:31-32 TS2009 W/Footnotes
31 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall make a renewed covenant with the house of Yisra’ĕl and with the house of Yehuḏah,a Footnote: aHeb 8:8-12, Heb 10:16-17.
32 not like the covenant I made with their fathers in the day when I strengthenedb their hand to bring them out of the land of Mitsrayim, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares יהוה. Footnote: bCommonly understood as “take hold of.”

Jeremiah 31:31-32 HNV
31 Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Yisra'el, and with the house of Yehudah:
32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband to them, says the LORD.

"In the day that I took them by the hand" ~ marriage covenant
"Although I was married, (a husband) to them" ~ marriage covenant

This type of most ancient covenant was and is known as a threshold covenant and is clearly portrayed in the first Pesakh.


The so-called animal sacrifices are only "works of the Law" for those who do not believe Paul when he says that the Torah is spiritual, (Rom 7:14a), so that they may uphold the Sanhedrin, Pharisaic, outward and physical-minded view of the Torah which cannot please Elohim. The Prophet you have quoted, (Jer 7:22-23), is actually telling you that the so-called animal sacrifices are not about literal physical animal sacrifices at all because, just as Paul says, the Torah is spiritual. Elohim did not add "sacrificial works of the Law", no, carnal minded men did that, and they did and do so by way of their own faulty readings, understandings, and interpretations of the Torah. The Prophets and Writings, (Psalms), expound these things many times over.

One simple example:

Hosea 14:1-2 KJV
1 O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.
2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

Hosea 14:1-2 TS2009 W/Footnotes
1 O Yisra’ĕl, return to יהוה your Elohim, for you have stumbled by your crookedness.
2 Take words with you, and return to יהוה. Say to Him, “Take away all crookedness, and accept what is good, and we render the bulls of our lips.a Footnote: aHeb 13:15 - bulls, referring to offerings.

Hosea 14:1-2 YLT
1 Turn back, O Israel, unto Jehovah thy God, For thou hast stumbled by thine iniquity.
2 Take with you words, and turn to Jehovah, Say ye unto Him: 'Take away all iniquity, and give good, And we do render the fruit of our lips.

Hosea 14:1-2 SLT
1 Turn back, O Israel, even to Jehovah thy God, for thou wert weak in thine iniquity.
2 Take with you words and turn back to Jehovah: say to him, Thou wilt take away all iniquity, and take good: and we will requite the fruits of our lips.

H6499 פַּר par (par) n-m, a bull, a bullock

Masculine plural form in Hosea 14:2, parim: bullocks ........... OR FRUIT! (par->pariy->priy).

Who therefore has decided what this word means throughout the Torah in the sacrificial commandments? Moreover the name of every sacrificial animal mentioned in the Torah has the same property, that is, multiple meanings that are both acceptable and understandable as legitimate readings in most every text wherein they appear.
 
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HIM

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The law (Ex 19-24) was the condition (Ex 19:5) to receive ithe blessings of the Mosaic covenant, whereby violation of the covenant resulted in death (Ex 32:25-35; see Mt 10:37).
No Mosaic Covenant only God's which is the ten commandments..

Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Exod 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
 
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Studyman

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The passages you quoted do not support your assertion.

There is a fundamental difference between how you view the God of Abraham, and how I view this same God. In the religion you have adopted, only those who abandon the language they were born with and seek the wise men (in your judgment) of this world to teach them another language, can men know God. Much like the early RCC and their Latin. I say this simply to point out that with this limitation your religion places on knowing God, it is inevitable that we will not agree on everything.

Nevertheless, the following is the reason for my understanding of God's covenant HE made with Abraham, and the Children of Israel in Ex. 19, that they broke.

In my understanding, God's Covenant is "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, "sin" lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his (Sins) desire, and thou shalt rule over him (Sin)."

To Abraham this same God said;

Gen. 12: 1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: (How to do well) 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: (God will accept him)

And again;

Gen. 17: 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. (Do Well) 2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. (God will accept Abraham)

In Exodus 2 this same God said " And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage. And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob. And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.

This same God told Abraham's Children in Israel who were enslaved by sin and deception:

Ex. 19: 4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, (Do well) then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: (Be accepted by God) for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

This simple truth that even a child can understand, is confirmed over and over in the Scriptures.

Is. 1: 16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17 "Learn to do well"; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; (You will be accepted) though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. (God will accept them) 19 If ye be willing and obedient, (Do well) ye shall eat the good of the land: (Be accepted)

Is. 48: 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. (Teaches me how to do well)

18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea: (They would have been accepted.)

This is the Covenant of God that Israel Broke with the Golden calf, causing Moses to seek another Covenant for forgiveness. And it was written for us, for our examples, "That we might not Lust after the same things they lusted after".

Jeremiah confirms my understanding.

Jer. 7: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, (Do well) and I will be your God, (God will accept them) and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Paul taught the same exact thing.

Rom. 2: 7 To them who by patient continuance "in well doing" seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: (Acceptance from God)

10 But glory, honour, and peace, (Acceptance) to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

And the Jesus "of the Bible" Himself.

Matt. 19: 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, (Be accepted) keep the commandments. (Do well)

There is a lot more evidence in the Holy scriptures which show me the Covenant God offered to Abraham and his children in Egypt, "which covenant they broke". But like Jesus said; "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead"
 
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biblelesson

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No Mosaic Covenant only God's which is the ten commandments..

Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Exod 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
The covenant is also called the law of Moses identified in scripture.

This is the reason: 1 Corinthians 10:2, “And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;”

Acts 13:39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.


Acts 15:5
“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Acts 28:23
“And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.”

1 Corinthians 9:9
“For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?”
 
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Studyman

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The Greek text in the Hebrews quote reads from the Septuagint which is incorrect. The Hebrew text contains the word for marriage in verb form, but which most render as the noun form of the same word, (ba'al, a husband).

Jeremiah 31:31-32 TS2009 W/Footnotes
31 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall make a renewed covenant with the house of Yisra’ĕl and with the house of Yehuḏah,a Footnote: aHeb 8:8-12, Heb 10:16-17.
32 not like the covenant I made with their fathers in the day when I strengthenedb their hand to bring them out of the land of Mitsrayim, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares יהוה. Footnote: bCommonly understood as “take hold of.”

Jeremiah 31:31-32 HNV
31 Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Yisra'el, and with the house of Yehudah:
32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband to them, says the LORD.

"In the day that I took them by the hand" ~ marriage covenant
"Although I was married, (a husband) to them" ~ marriage covenant

This type of most ancient covenant was and is known as a threshold covenant and is clearly portrayed in the first Pesakh.

And yet no Covenant existed at this point.

Ex. 32: 9 (CLV) And Yahweh said to Moses: I have seen this people, and behold, they are a stiff-necked people. 10 And now, leave it to Me, that My anger may grow hot against them, so that I may finish them; and I shall make you into a great nation.

So the Covenant God made with them, in the day HE brought them out of Egypt, was gone. Broken, the Tablets shattered and God ready to start all over again with Moses.

And Moses pleaded on their behalf.

30 It came to be after the morrow that Moses said to the people: You have sinned a great sin, and now I am going up to Yahweh. "Perhaps" I may make a propitiatory shelter about your sin.

The Covenant that followed, given by the Mercy of God, including the commands concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices that didn't exist prior, is the Covenant God made with Israel that existed after the Golden Calf.

Jer. 7: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

He defined the changes for men.

#1. The manner in which God's Law is received.

#2. The manner in which Sin's are forgiven.

Jer. 31: 33 For this [is] the covenant that I make, With the house of Israel, after those days, An affirmation of Yahweh, I have given My law in their inward part, And on their heart I do write it, And I have been to them for Elohim, And they are to me for a people." 34 And they do not teach any more Each his neighbor, and each his brother, Saying, Know you Yahweh, For they all know Me, from their least unto their greatest, An affirmation of Yahweh; For I pardon their iniquity, And of their sin I make mention no more.

Both of these changes pertain directly to the duties of the Priesthood God "ADDED" after the Golden calf and are both addressed in Hebrews.

Heb. 7: 11 If, indeed, then, perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for the people have been placed under law with it), what need is there still for a different priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not said to be according to the order of Aaron?

"The manner in which God's Law is received"

Heb. 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the impending good things, not the selfsame image of the matters, they, with their same sacrifices which they are offering year by year, are never able to perfect to a finality those approaching." 2 Else would they not cease being offered, because those offering divine service, having been once cleansed, are having no longer any consciousness of sins? 3 But in them there is a recollection of sins year by year; 4 for it is impossible for the blood of bulls and of he-goats to be eliminating sins.

"The manner in which Sin's are forgiven"


If you are saying that God promised to "Renew" His Covenant with Abraham and the Children of Israel HE made with them before the Golden calf, then we have both found the same truth, but by different paths.
 
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Clare73

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No Mosaic Covenant only God's which is the ten commandments..
God's covenant with Israel is called the "Mosaic" covenant to distinguish it from God's covenant with Abraham.
Surely you know this.
Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Exod 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Yes, the Decalogue is the basis/condition of the Mosaic covenant, just as total consecration to the Lord (Ge 17:9-14) was the basis/condition of the Abrahamic covenant (Ge 17:9-21)
 
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Studyman

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The so-called animal sacrifices are only "works of the Law" for those who do not believe Paul when he says that the Torah is spiritual, (Rom 7:14a), so that they may uphold the Sanhedrin, Pharisaic, outward and physical-minded view of the Torah which cannot please Elohim.

I agree. The Pharisees were requiring these "works of the Law" for justification, because they were "ignorant of God's Righteousness". As their fathers did, so did they, as Isaiah points out by the Spirit of Christ.

Is. 1: 2 Hark, you heavens! And give ear, O earth! For Yahweh speaks! Sons I bring up and exalt, yet they, they transgress against Me." 3 The bull knows his owner, and the ass the crib of his possessors, yet Israel does not know Me, and My people do not consider Me. 4 Woe, "nation of sin"! People heavy with depravity! Seed of evil doers! Sons of ruiners! They forsake Yahweh. They spurn the Holy One of Israel. They are estranged, going back."

10 Hear the word of Yahweh, captains of Sodom! Give ear to the law of Elohim, you people of Gomorrah!" 11 Why, to Me, your many sacrifices?saying is Yahweh. "I am surfeited with ascent approaches of rams, and the fat of fatlings, and in the blood of young bulls and he-lambs and he-goats I do not delight."

It is clear the Pharisees were this same people who "Transgressed God's commandments by their own religious traditions", then promoted their version of the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "works" as Justification for their lawless traditions.

I see much of Christianity in the same light. They also transgress God's commandments by their own religious traditions, then promote their version of the Christ's Sacrifice as justification for their lawless traditions. Both deceptively using God's Priesthood to justify their sins. And in both cases, the "Blood" was not to justify lawless tradition, but to promote obedience by showing that there is a COST for Sin.

The Prophet you have quoted, (Jer 7:22-23), is actually telling you that the so-called animal sacrifices are not about literal physical animal sacrifices at all because, just as Paul says, the Torah is spiritual.

Here is where we disagree. There was no Command from God for Abraham or the Children of Israel before the Golden Calf, to take a goat to a Levite Priest, and kill it, to be justified. This is an undeniable Biblical Truth. This Law "concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices" came after Israel broke God's Covenant and Moses went up to God to secure another..

While I agree with you that the Law and Prophets were written for our examples, and are Spiritual, and the things that happened to them, happened for our admonition, the Levitical Priesthood did exist, and animal sacrifices were required for a time, for those who sinned unintentionally as a lesson to us about how BAD even unintentional sin is. And there was never a Sacrifice for intentional sin. This is why we are to "Rule over Sin" and not let Sin rule over us.

It points to how Sin has a cost, intentional or not.

But the wicked men of this world, "who came in God's Name" twisted this "LAW" and turned these sacrificial "works" into a business. The Lord's Christ tipped over their tables in protest to this wickedness.

Elohim did not add "sacrificial works of the Law", no, carnal minded men did that, and they did and do so by way of their own faulty readings, understandings, and interpretations of the Torah. The Prophets and Writings, (Psalms), expound these things many times over.

One simple example:

Hosea 14:1-2 KJV
1 O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.
2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

Hosea 14:1-2 TS2009 W/Footnotes
1 O Yisra’ĕl, return to יהוה your Elohim, for you have stumbled by your crookedness.
2 Take words with you, and return to יהוה. Say to Him, “Take away all crookedness, and accept what is good, and we render the bulls of our lips.a Footnote: aHeb 13:15 - bulls, referring to offerings.

Hosea 14:1-2 YLT
1 Turn back, O Israel, unto Jehovah thy God, For thou hast stumbled by thine iniquity.
2 Take with you words, and turn to Jehovah, Say ye unto Him: 'Take away all iniquity, and give good, And we do render the fruit of our lips.

Hosea 14:1-2 SLT
1 Turn back, O Israel, even to Jehovah thy God, for thou wert weak in thine iniquity.
2 Take with you words and turn back to Jehovah: say to him, Thou wilt take away all iniquity, and take good: and we will requite the fruits of our lips.

H6499 פַּר par (par) n-m, a bull, a bullock

Masculine plural form in Hosea 14:2, parim: bullocks ........... OR FRUIT! (par->pariy->priy).

Who therefore has decided what this word means throughout the Torah in the sacrificial commandments? Moreover the name of every sacrificial animal mentioned in the Torah has the same property, that is, multiple meanings that are both acceptable and understandable as legitimate readings in most every text wherein they appear.

I don't agree with you or the Catholic's religious philosophy on this topic Daq, based on what is written.

Here is God's agreement with Israel.

Ex. 19: 5 Now, if you shall hearken, yea hearken to My voice and observe My covenant then you will become Mine, a special possession, above all the peoples, for Mine is all the earth. 6 As for you, you shall become Mine, a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.

Now you and the RCC preach that God promised to change "this" Covenant. "After those days".

I argue that this Covenant was broken, and replaced by a Covenant in which men are ruled by a Priesthood "Till the SEED shall Come". A Priesthood in which they were required to go to, to hear God's Laws. A Priesthood in which they were required to go to, for forgiveness of sins.

And the New covenant, is the renewal of God's Covenant Abraham and Caleb and Joshua adopted.

The Book of 1 Peter also agrees with this understanding.

1 Pet. 2: 4 Whom approaching, a living Stone, having been rejected indeed by men, yet chosen by God, held in honor, 5 you, also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, into a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, most acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. " 6 Because of this it is included in the scripture: Lo! I am laying in Zion a corner capstone, chosen, held in honor, and he who is believing on it may by no means be disgraced." 7 To you, then, who are believing, is the honor, yet to the unbelieving: "A Stone which is rejected by the builders, this came to be for the head of the corner, 8 and a stumbling stone and a snare rock; who are stumbling also at the word, being stubborn, to which they were appointed also." 9 Yet you are a chosen race, a "royal priesthood,a "holy nation,a procured people, so that you should be recounting the virtues of Him Who calls you out of darkness into His marvelous light,

Clearly this is the SAME covenant God brought both Abraham and Israel under. While Abraham believed, Jeremiah 7 tells us Israel didn't.

So Moses went up a second time as it is written.

You and the RCC and her protestant daughters preach the philosophy that God's Covenant "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.," is the one God said HE would change.

The Scriptures do not promote the same philosophy.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The covenant is also called the law of Moses identified in scripture.

This is the reason: 1 Corinthians 10:2, “And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;”
This verse is referring to going through the Red Sea, not about the Ten Commandments.
Acts 13:39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Yes, there is the law of Moses, written by Moses in a book on parchment Deut 31:24, placed on the side of the ark of the covenant. Deut 31:26 The law of God, the Ten Commandments, was written by God alone by His finger Exo 32:16. Exo 31:18 written on stone, placed inside the ark. Exo 40:20 These are two separate sets of laws that serve different purposes. God identified the Ten as a unit as "My commandments" Exo 20:6 and His covenant Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13
Acts 15:5
“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Yes, circumcision was in the law of Moses, not the Ten Commandments- see Exodus 20 for the Ten Commandments.
Acts 28:23
“And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.”

1 Corinthians 9:9
“For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?”

Nothing about muzzling an ox in the Ten Commandments......all from the law of Moses.
 
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And yet no Covenant existed at this point.

Yes there was a covenant and it was ratified in Mitzraim, (Egypt), before they even departed, and as I said, it is known as a threshold covenant and is clearly portrayed in the first Pesakh, (Exodus 12). Did you do any investigation into that whatsoever? Nope, you apparently didn't lift a finger because it would refute your narrative.

For anyone else who might be interested, @HARK! posted a thread on this topic a while back at the following link: it's not exhaustive, but a good primer.

 
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HIM

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Yes there was a covenant and it was ratified in Mitzraim, (Egypt), before they even departed, and as I said, it is known as a threshold covenant and is clearly portrayed in the first Pesakh, (Exodus 12). Did you do any investigation into that whatsoever? Nope, you apparently didn't lift a finger because it would refute your narrative.

For anyone else who might be interested, @HARK! posted a thread on this topic a while back at the following link: it's not exhaustive, but a good primer.

Outside of the covenant made with Abraham there is No Covenant mentioned until Exodus 19 at the foot of Horeb, Mt Sinia. There the people are instructed to keep it. There it is referred to God's covenant by the word my in the clause my covenant. In Deut 4 Moses states that His covenant and shares it to be the Ten Words that were written on the tables of stone. And then in Deut 5 it refers to the covenant God made and it being that of Horeb.

Exod 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deut 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
 
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HIM

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God's covenant with Israel is called the "Mosaic" covenant to distinguish it from God's covenant with Abraham.
Surely you know this.

It is not called the Mosaic covenant in Scripture it is called God's. Surely you know this.
Yes, the Decalogue is the basis/condition of the Mosaic covenant, just as total consecration to the Lord (Ge 17:9-14) was the basis/condition of the Abrahamic covenant (Ge 17:9-21)
The Decalogue is the Covenant that is God as Moses shares explicitly in Deut 4:13


Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
 
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Studyman

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Yes there was a covenant and it was ratified in Mitzraim, (Egypt), before they even departed, and as I said, it is known as a threshold covenant and is clearly portrayed in the first Pesakh, (Exodus 12). Did you do any investigation into that whatsoever? Nope, you apparently didn't lift a finger because it would refute your narrative.

For anyone else who might be interested, @HARK! posted a thread on this topic a while back at the following link: it's not exhaustive, but a good primer.



You would do good to take some advice from Hark. You could use a little humility.

I have considered this possibility before. So your accusation that I didn't "do any investigation on my own" is just another accusation of many you promote, from the position of ignorance and malice.

Hark does make a good point, and actually came to the same conclusion I did regarding the Covenant that was broken, in that it was gone, the contract shattered, and they were in need of a renewed contract before moving on. His example of a "Tennant" is right on in my view, and I came to the same conclusions, albeit by another path. And God did make another covenant with them out of Mercy.

My point to you and the RCC preachers, is that there was NO Command concerning burnt offering and sacrifices for sin in front of a Levite Priest, in either Ex. 12, or Ex. 19, or given to Abraham. I believe Jeremiah confirms this in the Scriptures I posted.

This Law concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin was "ADDED" later, "Because" Israel Transgressed, as Paul tells us in Gal. 3. And was to be in place "Til the Seed should come.

I don't believe the Passover was the Covenant Israel broke, as at the time it was given, Israel was still in Sin and Deception in Egypt. They had received no 10 Commandments, no Sabbath and no agreement other than protection from a Death Angel that was going to ravish Egypt.

Ex. 12: 25 It will come to be when you are entering to the land which Yahweh is giving to you just as He spoke, then you will observe this service. 26 And it will come to be when your sons are saying to you: What is this service to you? 27 Then you will say: It is the sacrifice of passover to Yahweh, Who passed over the houses of the sons of Israel in Egypt, when He struck the Egyptians, yet our households He rescued.

I believe Paul also speaks to this.

Rom. 5: 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ (our Passover) died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

And truly they were saved from the Death angel in Egypt.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved "by his life".

Which is where the "Unleavened bread" kicks in.

So how can a man become "Unleavened"?

Ex. 19: 4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

5 "Now therefore", if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

The covenant of God being, "If you do well, shall you not be accepted", in my view.

Hark does very good work, and I do greatly respect his opinions. But I think there are religious sects of this world who place too much trust in ancient Jewish Traditions, traditions that much of the world could not even know for several centuries after the Death of Christ. Ancient Traditions of men that didn't know God, didn't believe Moses, and persecuted the Prophets and God's Church since before David. Traditions that Jesus Himself said were "Traditions and Commandments of men", not God. But I know if his heart is right with God, he will be led to God's truth.

From what HE has revealed to me, The Passover Lamb is there for anyone who would place its Blood (Life) on their works (2 door posts) and mind (Lintel). When this happens, the angel of death (Deception and Sin) passes over, and our "unleavened WALK" towards perfection (High Calling of God which was in Christ) begins.

You have seen what I did to the Egyptians (Passover) when I bore you on vultures' wings and brought you to Myself. 5 Now, if you shall hearken, yea hearken to My voice and observe My covenant then you will become Mine, a special possession, above all the peoples, for Mine is all the earth. 6 As for you, you shall become Mine, a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words which you shall speak to the sons of Israel.

I concede that Maybe the Passover is the Covenant Israel broke that Jeremiah speaks to. That is what the RCC, the mother of modern Christianity implies. And the New Covenant God Promised abolishes Passover, Unleavened bread, Sabbath, etc.

"Not like the Covenant I made with them". You and the RCC and her daughters imply that God is speaking to either Ex. 19, or Ex. 12, as the covenant HE makes old and vanishes. I believe God is speaking to the Covenant HE made with Israel "Because" he broke one or both of these agreements. The Covenant in which HE ADDED a Priesthood that "can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect."

This wasn't Passover and Unleavened Bread, as there was no Levitical Priesthood when either one was given. And Paul did say;

1 Cor. 5: 6 Not ideal is your boast. Are you not aware that a little leaven is leavening the whole kneading? 7 Clean out, then, the old leaven, that you may be a fresh kneading, according as you are unleavened. For our Passover also, Christ, was sacrificed for our sakes" 8 so that we may be keeping the festival, not with old leaven, nor yet with the leaven of evil and wickedness, but with unleavened sincerity and truth.

The Covenant God made with Israel after the Golden calf, was not the same covenant HE made with them before the Golden Calf. God Added something as it is written. The Scriptures support the belief that God ADDED Priesthood "works" concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin that Abraham did not have.

And it was this Priesthood that changed, not God's Instruction in Righteousness.
 
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Clare73

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It is not called the Mosaic covenant in Scripture it is called God's. Surely you know this.
Nor are the Father, Son and Holy Spirit called the Trinity in Scripture.
But it is so nonetheless.
The Decalogue is the Covenant that is God as Moses shares explicitly in Deut 4:13
Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
A covenant is a contract. The Ten Commandments were the terms of the contract.
A contract has consequences for violation of its terms.
The Ten Commandments stated only the terms, not the consequences.
 
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Outside of the covenant made with Abraham there is No Covenant mentioned until Exodus 19 at the foot of Horeb, Mt Sinia. There the people are instructed to keep it. There it is referred to God's covenant by the word my in the clause my covenant. In Deut 4 Moses states that His covenant and shares it to be the Ten Words that were written on the tables of stone. And then in Deut 5 it refers to the covenant God made and it being that of Horeb.

Exod 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deut 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

Then how did they become married as the Prophet says and I have quoted? You would think that professed believers would be happy to learn that the Word of Elohim is not abolished and yet they argue and persist to insist that it is.
 
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Studyman

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"Did you do any investigation into that whatsoever? Nope, you apparently didn't lift a finger because it would refute your narrative"
Matthew 15:18-20, 1 John 3:15.

Matt. 15: 19 For out of the heart are coming wicked reasonings, murders, adulteries, prostitutions, thefts, false testimonies, "calumnies." 20 These are those which are contaminating a man.


calumnies
(plural noun)
  1. the making of false and defamatory statements about someone in order to damage their reputation; slander:

1 John 3: 15 Everyone who is hating his brother is a man-killer, and you are aware that no man-killer at all has life eonian remaining in him."

I have looked into it extensively and have shared my understanding.

To believe you, I would have to believe that God is saying;

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant of Passover and Unleavened Bread, that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD".

Perhaps you and the RCC are right, and I am wrong in my understanding, and it was Passover and Unleavened Bread that God brought to an end to in the New Covenant.

But so far, the evidence you have provided doesn't align with the Philosophy you are promoting, in my view.
 
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daq

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Matt. 15: 19 For out of the heart are coming wicked reasonings, murders, adulteries, prostitutions, thefts, false testimonies, "calumnies." 20 These are those which are contaminating a man.


calumnies
(plural noun)
  1. the making of false and defamatory statements about someone in order to damage their reputation; slander:

1 John 3: 15 Everyone who is hating his brother is a man-killer, and you are aware that no man-killer at all has life eonian remaining in him."

I have looked into it extensively and have shared my understanding.

malice

Definitions

from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.​

  • noun A desire to harm others or to see others suffer; extreme ill will or spite.
  • noun The intent to commit an unlawful act without justification or excuse.
  • noun An improper motive for an action, such as desire to cause injury to another.

from The Century Dictionary.​

  • To regard with malice; bear extreme ill-will to; also, to envy and hate.
  • noun Badness; bad quality.
  • noun Evil; harm; a malicious act; also, evil influence.
  • noun A propensity to inflict injury or suffering, or to take pleasure in the misfortunes of another or others; active ill-will, whether from natural disposition or special impulse; enmity; hatred: sometimes used in a lighter sense. See malicious, 1.
  • noun In law, a design or intention of doing mischief to another; the evil intention (either actual or implied) with which one deliberately, and without justification or excuse, does a wrongful act which is injurious to others.
  • noun Synonyms Ill-will, Enmity, etc. (see animosity); maliciousness, venom, spitefulness, depravity.
  • noun The common dwarf mallow, Malta rotundifolia.

from the GNU version of the Collaborative International Dictionary of English.​

  • transitive verb obsolete To regard with extreme ill will.
  • noun Enmity of heart; malevolence; ill will; a spirit delighting in harm or misfortune to another; a disposition to injure another; a malignant design of evil.
  • noun (Law) Any wicked or mischievous intention of the mind; a depraved inclination to mischief; an intention to vex, annoy, or injure another person, or to do a wrongful act without just cause or cause or excuse; a wanton disregard of the rights or safety of others; willfulness.
  • noun malice previously and deliberately entertained.

from Wiktionary, Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License.​

  • noun Intention to harm or deprive in an illegal or immoral way. Desire to take pleasure in another's misfortune.

from WordNet 3.0 Copyright 2006 by Princeton University. All rights reserved.​

  • noun feeling a need to see others suffer
  • noun the quality of threatening evil

To believe you, I would have to believe that God is saying;

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant of Passover and Unleavened Bread, that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD".

Perhaps you and the RCC are right, and I am wrong in my understanding, and it was Passover and Unleavened Bread that God brought to an end to in the New Covenant.

But so far, the evidence you have provided doesn't align with the Philosophy you are promoting, in my view.

As you confess: that is your view. However you continue to conveniently ignore all of the evidence already offered, beginning with Jeremiah 3, (Reply #18).
 
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