What are your views on "cultural" churches?

[cassie121]

Often times, when someone asks me what church I go to and I reply Zion the next question is: The one that speaks Finnish? To which I reply no the one that speaks English.
What are your opinions on having "cultural" churches? For example, the other Zion Lutheran in my city is clearly a Finnish church. They even have their services in Finnish language. Everyone there for the most part is atleast part Finnish. I'm not saying culture is bad. But, I'm not so sure it's exactly effective to have your service in a language that people in the general area of the church does not speak. Spanish , I understand. Theres a need for individuals who do not speak English but only Spanish. But honestly, assuming the congregation speaks English also is it really that effective to have services in Finnish only? Especially, in a city with a very small Finnish population? I don't know maybe I'm wrong here but wouldn't having services in a foreign language potentially keep people away? I'm not at all saying "throw that heritage away" I'm saying keep things to where people of different cultures can still come in and praise God and come to know him.

 

[Jim47]

I agree with you Cassie, if they are holding services only in a foreign language how are they obeying Jesus command to go and teach to all?

They could hold special service at a different time for those enjoy native tongue and that would be fine, but not for a sunday morning service where they would certainly get visitors that would probably not speak Finnish.

 

[Edial]

Often times, when someone asks me what church I go to and I reply Zion the next question is: The one that speaks Finnish? To which I reply no the one that speaks English.
What are your opinions on having "cultural" churches? For example, the other Zion Lutheran in my city is clearly a Finnish church. They even have their services in Finnish language. Everyone there for the most part is atleast part Finnish. I'm not saying culture is bad. But, I'm not so sure it's exactly effective to have your service in a language that people in the general area of the church does not speak. Spanish , I understand. Theres a need for individuals who do not speak English but only Spanish. But honestly, assuming the congregation speaks English also is it really that effective to have services in Finnish only? Especially, in a city with a very small Finnish population? I don't know maybe I'm wrong here but wouldn't having services in a foreign language potentially keep people away? I'm not at all saying "throw that heritage away" I'm saying keep things to where people of different cultures can still come in and praise God and come to know him.

Outside of my regular Lutheran English speaking church I also teach and translate in a small Russian ethnic church.
Most of the handful of people who are there speak very little or no English.
So, they need this.

However, some 10(?) years ago I briefly (about a year) visited an Armenian Evangelical Church. I am an Armenian by nationality.
Most of the Armenians there were born in the U.S. and spoke very little Armenian. All spoke English. The Pastor spoke both languages fluently.
They had two sermonettes, one after another, one in English and another in Armenian.

Why? Because being Armenian is very important to them. It is kind of nationalistic in nature (my opinion).
These Armenians knew everyting there is to know about Armenia. All the heros, poets, politicians, actors ... all the important folks.
To them Armenian was very important.
And "yes", if someone would play a joke on them and say that they can show from the Bible that in Heaven all people would speak Armenian, they would probably believe it.



Thanks,
Ed

 

[DaRev]

Often times, when someone asks me what church I go to and I reply Zion the next question is: The one that speaks Finnish? To which I reply no the one that speaks English.
What are your opinions on having "cultural" churches? For example, the other Zion Lutheran in my city is clearly a Finnish church. They even have their services in Finnish language. Everyone there for the most part is atleast part Finnish. I'm not saying culture is bad. But, I'm not so sure it's exactly effective to have your service in a language that people in the general area of the church does not speak. Spanish , I understand. Theres a need for individuals who do not speak English but only Spanish. But honestly, assuming the congregation speaks English also is it really that effective to have services in Finnish only? Especially, in a city with a very small Finnish population? I don't know maybe I'm wrong here but wouldn't having services in a foreign language potentially keep people away? I'm not at all saying "throw that heritage away" I'm saying keep things to where people of different cultures can still come in and praise God and come to know him.

I would have to guess that there are some in that community that desire it, otherwise they wouldn't do it. We need to remember that one of Luther's objectives was that the Word of God be available to people in the vernacular.

The history of the Lutheran Church in North America is filled with congregations conducting their services in the native languages of the members. Practically all Lutherans worshipped in German, Slovak, or Scandinavian languages in the earliest days until a generation or two passed and synods like the "General English Evangelical Lutheran Conference of Missouri and other states" (now the English District in the LCMS) came along, or some synods changed their names like the former Slovak Evangelical Lutheran Church who changed their name in the 1950's to the Synod of Evangelical Lutheran Churches (now the SELC District in the LCMS) to reflect the diversity within those churches. There are still a handful of SELC congregations that offer Slovak language services, although that number is dwindling.

 

[RedneckLutheran]

I was confirmed in a "Cultural" Church...didn't expect that many Cajuns to be "Louxtheran"...no sausage suppers, but we cooked a lot of Gumbo and fried a lot of fish...

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I was confirmed in a "Cultural" Church...didn't expect that many Cajuns to be "Louxtheran"...no sausage suppers, but we cooked a lot of Gumbo and fried a lot of fish...

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I was confirmed in a "Cultural" Church...didn't expect that many Cajuns to be "Louxtheran"...no sausage suppers, but we cooked a lot of Gumbo and fried a lot of fish...

Did you guys speak french?

I'm curious. Can you share a little history as to how the Congregation was established? There are a lot of Lutherans in the Windsor/Amhurstburg area of Ontario. There are also a lot of French Catholics there, most of which are "Acadian" background, that came back up here from Louisianan. Some through marriage have converted, but not many. The French Culture is very active there. Some comunities still speak French almost exclusivly. There is still a Jesuit Semenairy, Assumption, which was the origin of the University of Windsor.

Speaking of Culture, Assumption still offers the "Tridentine Mass" Sunday afternoons. (I've been invited to attend by a Monsignor when I went to see their beautyful Church. He figured that as a Lutheran, Latin aside, it would be more in line with our Lutheran Mass than the Novis Ordo. If time allows, I just might go.)

Mark.

 

[Melethiel]

I think there's nothing wrong with offering services in other languages, especially for immigrants who might have a hard time with English. But it'd probably be good to offer a service in English too.

I know I do enjoy attending a Ukrainian service every once in a while.

 

[RedneckLutheran]

Did you guys speak french?

I'm curious. Can you share a little history as to how the Congregation was established? There are a lot of Lutherans in the Windsor/Amhurstburg area of Ontario. There are also a lot of French Catholics there, most of which are "Acadian" background, that came back up here from Louisianan. Some through marriage have converted, but not many. The French Culture is very active there. Some comunities still speak French almost exclusivly. There is still a Jesuit Semenairy, Assumption, which was the origin of the University of Windsor.

Speaking of Culture, Assumption still offers the "Tridentine Mass" Sunday afternoons. (I've been invited to attend by a Monsignor when I went to see their beautyful Church. He figured that as a Lutheran, Latin aside, it would be more in line with our Lutheran Mass than the Novis Ordo. If time allows, I just might go.)

Mark.

no French services...although Cajun and French go together something like Spanish and Hispanic...kinda close, but no cigar...The Cajuns down there have let the language go...that started in the later 1800's...not a whole lot of people can speak any Cajun anymore...don't remember how old the Church was...I know it was around since before Spindletop (January 1901) probably a German thing with the Cajuns taking over later...

 

[Edial]

although Cajun and French go together something like Spanish and Hispanic...kinda close, but no cigar...

I did not know that. Thanks.

 

[DailyBlessings]

I think it's fine to preserve the ethnic heritage of the congregation, even if it means having services in a language no longer common. But it would be good to also have an English service for those not acquainted with Finnish. I deeply appreciated the opportunity to attend a German Mass back in Advent, twice; it would be a pity to altogether lose our parent traditions to the homogenizing forces of the national melting pot.

 

[Tofferer]

I suppose I can see a point there. Personally, I am thinking of finding a local RC church sometime that still does the mass in latin so I can see what that is like. More than anything, I am curious about latin and how it was/is used in the church.

 

[Melethiel]

I suppose I can see a point there. Personally, I am thinking of finding a local RC church sometime that still does the mass in latin so I can see what that is like. More than anything, I am curious about latin and how it was/is used in the church.

I've attended a Tridentine Mass before, for the Easter Vigil. (Well, I was hired to play...) If you ignore the whole Mary thing and the sacrificial wording in the Eucharist, it's (IMO) MUCH more beautiful and reverent than what passes for Mass in most Catholic church nowadays...

For the people who don't know Latin, they offered a service booklet with the translation.

 

[BigNorsk]

Well Cassie,

If you understand why services in some places are in Spanish, then the real question is for how long should a church be cultural, not if.

Seems to me the Missouri Synod did things in German for about a hundred years.

I know the Norwegian in the congregation I grew up in didn't last quite as long. It started out all Norwegian, I think it went to once a month in the 40's or 50's. Then it went to just a few special services, and the last one was I think in the 1980's. Then the congregation called a minister who couldn't preach in Norwegian and that was that.

The Finns here too are very concerned with their culture. There's even a Laestadian congregation, though they mostly worship with the ELCA congregation.

Distinctives sometimes have a way of becoming a bit too important. Look at how important baptism of adults by immersion became in the Anabaptists and Baptists.

You mention how hard it would be to evangelize due to the language. That may be true, but the unfortunate truth is that many Lutheran congregations literally do no local evangelism. Their language just makes it obvious that local evangelism isn't their priority. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they support evangelism, just in some other place.

Marv