Unpardonable Sin...
- Thread starter Critically Red
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Because this thread was about a person in need. And not about some petty squabble over doctrine. And my actions of showing concern and addressing the real life issues of the individual should be an example to you that people that understand the truth of eternal security, are far from the type that claim salvation and run. And perhaps some more than others focused on the hurt and pain that Red was feeling rather than trying to start another discussion on truth of eternal security.
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EmSw
White Horse Rider
I agree with the focusing of his pain and hurt. But can man, according to Calvinism, change anything God has determined? Will compassion change God's heart concerning his salvation according to Calvinism? Hasn't God predestined him either to heaven, or foreordained him to hell? Will your words of concern change this? Can man change anything God has determined?
I do believe compassion, love, concern can change his life, even if God 'predestined' otherwise. This is not a squabble over doctrine. This shows when life's situations become reality, man acts from a heart of compassion and not doctrine.
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say I don't really know where I stand on predestination. Or rather, I believe in it, but I don't understand it. Literally all I know is "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved." It's getting to this belief that I am unsure about.
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EmSw
White Horse Rider
Matthew 11:28-30
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.
If we labor and a heavy burden is upon us, just take His yoke upon you and learn from Him. He's not here to condemn or criticize you; he is gentle and lowly in heart. In Him you will find rest for your worried soul.
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Not being a Calvinist I cannot answer this. Perhaps one of the more Calvinistic brothers or sisters on this forum would chime in to provide an answer.
My opinion though as to man changing anything God has determined... Man can try, but it is kinda hard to change the mind of omnipotence....I mean look at how Abraham tried to convince God to spare Sodom and Gomorrah, did he not? And God even said if there were righteous people there He would spare the cities....of course God knew that none would be found....but He at least let Abraham believe it was possible.
And later we see in Exodus 32 that Moses entreated to the Lord to spare His people...and Exodus 32:14 says the Lord changed His mind....One could argue that God had already planned that and Moses' pleas were more like a test...but that is not what the Bible clearly says....so...I tend to go with what is written.
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God relented for the moment,
14 So the Lord relented from the harm which He said He would do to His people.
notice though what God says in v34
Exodus 32
33 And the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book. 34 Now therefore, go, lead the people to the place of which I have spoken to you. Behold, My Angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit for punishment, I will visit punishment upon them for their sin.”
35 So the Lord plagued the people because of what they did with the calf which Aaron made.
So it says God relented, yet later on God did destroy all of them at the appointed time.
Of course all of that generation fell and died in the wilderness as God swore in His wrath that none of them would enter into His rest. All except Caleb and Joshua. This is just a temporary delay of destruction as when Jonah went to Nineveh.
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And this is what I fear happening to me.
I've been in the word more. And I've been praying some. I've been asking God to reveal things to me in scripture, and praying that God help me overcome temptations. I also have been praying that he draw me closer in to him, and give me a greater desire for him as I do not feel for him like I should. In fact, I most often feel very apathetic. But I pray about it. Yet even then I find myself getting distracted with other things - like what's on tv, or what's going on in my facebook feed. I know in my mind that Jesus is lord of everything, and that I should give up everything to him. But I haven't lived consistent to this these past 4 years. Why can't I get this through my head?
I read things like that and it terrifies me (as it likely should I imagine), and just makes me feel hopeless. I try reading of his mercy and grace, but it's like those scriptures are just acting like reminders of things I can no longer have. It's hard for me to put in words: But I try sort of getting everything organized in my mind, and only end up more confused. Maybe in certain ways I'm still under this idea of "do this, and God will save you". I try to get out of that, but I've seen no progress. So literally all I know to do is say "God, help. I can't make sense of anything to the extent that I can't even put my confusion in to words. Please help". And that's all I know to pray.
It is all on me. I suppose if God just doesn't want to save me, then he doesn't save me. But I wish he would. Maybe that's improper to say. But I'm often so afraid of my fate being sealed and being thrown in to hell. He's in no way obligated to save me, but I wish and hope he would.
EDIT: I started second guessing that last paragraph. I was kind of just saying what was on my mind without thinking. I don't mean to sound like I'm blaming God. At least, I would hope deep down I'm not (it's difficult even for me at times to discern the reason behind my actions. But I'm only trying to be honest when I say this...). I'm just saying that whatever I deserve I've brought it on myself, and that (while it may be improper) I still hope that God may somehow move and save me - if indeed I'm not saved.
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Those people in the wilderness of sin, did not love God. They made a golden calf and worshipped it saying it was the god who brought them out of Egypt. They complained and accused God frequently, even after seeing all the Lord had done for them with His mighty miracles to save them.
They longed to go back to Egypt. See, those folks were not fit for the kingdom of God, they turned back, looked back, were disobedient.
They did not believe God and His promises to them, they had in them an evil heart of unbelief which prevented them from entering into God's promise.
Hebrews 3
7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways.’
11 So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’”
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15 while it is said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
Failure of the Wilderness Wanderers
16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
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Unbelief is always the salvation killer with God and Christ. None of those mentioned in the scriptures referenced earlier in the wilderness believed, and so they perished. They tempted God, they tempted the Rock that was with them who is Christ.
However belief in God AND Christ is the witness mark that a person is saved.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:18
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Acts 16:31
So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Romans 3:22
even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Romans 4:5
[ David Celebrates the Same Truth ] But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
Romans 9:33
As it is written: “Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
Romans 10:10
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:11
For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
1 Corinthians 10 New King James Version (NKJV)
Old Testament Examples
1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.”8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.
However belief in God AND Christ is the witness mark that a person is saved.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:18
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Acts 16:31
So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Romans 3:22
even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Romans 4:5
[ David Celebrates the Same Truth ] But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
Romans 9:33
As it is written: “Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
Romans 10:10
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:11
For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
1 Corinthians 10 New King James Version (NKJV)
Old Testament Examples
1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.”8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.
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It, in some ways, sounds like I've been living like they have. So why should God forgive me? I don't know if I love God. If I do, it's to such a small extent I can't see it clearly. How do I get to this belief? What does belief look like?
Again, I've been praying, and in the word more. I've been going to a good church. All in the hopes that somehow God will just move through it and have mercy on me.
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Is it wrong for me to still pray and ask for forgiveness and salvation; for a change of heart? I have put God to the test. I have taken advantage of him. Many times over, even. But I'm told he is bigger even than that sin. You said earlier that I should put away what I've done in the past and look forward in Christ. Even after what I've told you here, is that still the case? What I'm saying is, can I still just forget about what I've done - no matter how recent, how heinous, and how often - and just seek Christ?
I don't mean to trivialize what I've done. I pray even that God would make me sensitive to sin. But I'm just tired of living in this odd mixture of fear and apathy, and not knowing where I stand. Perhaps I do not see Christ as he ought to be seen. But I know in my mind that there is death in myself and life in him.
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John 6, tells us a lot about our relationship to God and Christ
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Can you see yourself as one of those that do come to Christ? The promise is in two parts.
a. All that the Father gives Me will come to Me,
b. and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
For certain, if you do eventually come to Christ in faith, He will not cast you off.
Part a.,is a guarantee of the certainty of salvation for His people whom He foreknew who will become saved persons, the foreknown us predestined part.
Part b., is the certainty that the salvation is an eternal salvation, since Christ has taken upon Himself our sins, and His is a perfect sacrifice that perfects forever those who are being sanctified by faith in Christ. Hebrews 10 is a good read.
v40, God's will is that all who believe will have everlasting life.
v39, Such persons are all those the Father has given to Christ as believers in Him.
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In a sense. I do try to come to him. I confess to him what's on my heart. If I'm apathetic, I tell him. If I've been bitter, I ask that he change my heart. I'm very often distracted by other things, but there are times I eventually come around and tell him everything. I have once heard a preacher say something (in passing) to the nature of "Only if God can say things that make you struggle will you know that you have met a real God & not a figment of your imagination". And I do wrestle with a lot of things in scripture, and pray that God helps me learn to accept it as truth. As of late, I have experienced victory over certain sins that have really weighed me down, and with that, a certain relief of conscience. And from there I see other sins that should be worked on. If I'm tempted I pray for strength to overcome it. I'm not saying "I did this, so God should save me now". I'm just saying that perhaps it is evidence of something at work?
I'm sorry if all that seems disorganized and frantic. I have trouble communicating and organizing my thoughts. All I'm saying is that I see some things that may be evidence of God at work - though I do not know for certain. I have seen that God is good, and gracious, and merciful. But I've sinned against that goodness. To receive pardon for that is difficult to wrap my mind around and, at times, seems too good to be true.
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I'm sorry I keep making post after post. But I get so anxious thinking about all this.
Let me ask this: As I've said, I have no idea where I stand. Maybe I'm saved, maybe I'm not. But I have a lot of doubts. Either way, how do I get to the place where I give up everything to God? How do you fully put your trust in Christ?
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- Jul 22, 2014
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What are unforgivable sins? Well, if a person has spoken bad insulting words against the Holy Spirit, then they cannot be forgiven. If a person has rejected Jesus as their Savior after having had the Holy Ghost, then that cannot be forgiven, either. Neither can taking the Mark of the Beast or in committing suicide (and staying dead).
As for doubting God's Word: Well, there is no reason to doubt God's Word. God is a miracle worker and He can do anything. There are also many evidences that back up God's Word, as well. Please check out this link here:
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/general-list-of-biblical-evidences.7833944/
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- Jul 22, 2014
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1 John 2:3-6 says we can have an assurance in knowing him if we find that we are keeping His Commandments. So obey the Lord. Read the Bible, and pray. Place God's Word on the inside of your heart and do what it says. But if you need to have an assurance of salvation now, then ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins as per 1 John 1:9 (cf. 1 John 2:1). For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. This is a promise of God that you can bank on. Not as a license for you to sin, but so that you can overcome sin (1 John 1:7; cf. Proverbs 28:13).
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