Trump admin cuts $60 million from Planned Parenthood

[Aldebaran]

Abortion is a component of women's reproductive health.
Ringo

You say that as if having an abortion is a natural part of pregnancy. If that were the case, it wouldn't require a doctor to do it.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

It's not extreme. Trump is diverting money from proven medicine to religion-based mumbo jumbo that lacks comprehensive healthcare coverage.

What does the Lutheran Bible say about the life of an unborn child in the womb?

 

[FireDragon76]

What does the Lutheran Bible say about the life of an unborn child in the womb?

There is no "Lutheran Bible".

We take no definitive position on the ethics of abortion. The Bible never directly discusses abortion.

 

[redleghunter]

We take no definitive position on the ethics of abortion.

You mean ELCA and not speaking of all synods right?

 

[Ringo84]

They are cutting $60 million from planned parenthood and transferring the money to other organizations dedicated to providing women's health which does not provide abortions and are far less controversial. There is nothing about the article which even suggests that women will not be able to receive "non-abortion healthcare" that you referenced from planned parenthood. Yes, I agree that abortion is classified as "women's heath". However, as you have previously stated, abortions are not the only "health care" that women receive. From this conversation, it appears as though your primary concern is not "women's healthcare". Rather, more specifically, your primary concern is women's ability to convenient abortion on demand at the expense of the American taxpayer. Once again, a position that, in my opinion, a Christian ought not to have.

Taxpayers paying for abortion is already illegal under current law, so you seem to be tilting at windmills. If "controversy" is the issue, then a) that's not a reason to defund something, and b) there are few women's organizations with the national reach of PP.
Ringo

 

[ViaCrucis]

You say that as if having an abortion is a natural part of pregnancy. If that were the case, it wouldn't require a doctor to do it.

C-sections.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

What does the Lutheran Bible say about the life of an unborn child in the womb?

The Bible doesn't say anything one way or the other. Also, there's no such thing as a "Lutheran Bible".

-CryptoLutheran

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

There is no "Lutheran Bible".

We take no definitive position on the ethics of abortion. The Bible never directly discusses abortion.

The Bible doesn't say anything one way or the other. Also, there's no such thing as a "Lutheran Bible".

-CryptoLutheran

Reread my post. I asked what the Lutheran Bible says about the life of an unborn child in the womb...not abortion. I thought that perhaps we were using a different Bible because mine clearly says:

God knew us before He formed us in the womb. (Jeremiah 1:5)

God was an active role in our creation and formation in the womb. (Psalm 139: 13-16)

The Old Testament Law says that whatever harm you cause to an unborn child, you will receive the same fate. Hence, the Old Testament Law prescribed the death penalty for someone who caused the death of a baby in the womb in the same way as someone committing murder would have been put to death. Clearly indicating that the life of an unborn child is just as valuable as any other human life. (Exodus 21:22-25)

So again I ask for a 4th time. Why are Christians abandoning the Word of God to condone the wickedness of the racially motivated slaughter of the unborn by the hands of PP?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

If "controversy" is the issue, then a) that's not a reason to defund something, and b) there are few women's organizations with the national reach of PP.
Ringo

a) are you suggesting that the American tax payer shouldn't have a say in where their tax dollars go? Because something being unpopular by the American taxpayer is a perfectly justifiable reason to defund something. Otherwise it is robbery.
b) Once again, WOMEN ARE STILL GOING TO RECEIVE HEALTHCARE. Do you really think that Planned parenthood is the only show in town that provided women's healthcare? How stupid do you think we are? What you are really concerned about is that Planned Parenthood may be the only show in town that provides convenient and affordable abortion on demand...not women's healthcare.

 

[Arcangl86]

Reread my post. I asked what the Lutheran Bible says about the life of an unborn child in the womb...not abortion. I thought that perhaps we were using a different Bible because mine clearly says:

God knew us before He formed us in the womb. (Jeremiah 1:5)

This verse can just as easily be read to understand that God is beyond time and all knowing.

God was an active role in our creation and formation in the womb. (Psalm 139: 13-16)

God was also active in creating the mountains and the seas. Are they alive?

The Old Testament Law says that whatever harm you cause to an unborn child, you will receive the same fate. Hence, the Old Testament Law prescribed the death penalty for someone who caused the death of a baby in the womb in the same way as someone committing murder would have been put to death. Clearly indicating that the life of an unborn child is just as valuable as any other human life. (Exodus 21:22-25)

I think you might need to read that again. It clearly says that if a woman's fruit departs, i.e. has a miscarriage, but no harm occurs then all that is needed is a fine.
[/QUOTE]

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

This verse can just as easily be read to understand that God is beyond time and all knowing.

And that God would then know the child before He formed us in the womb. It is not that complicated.

God was also active in creating the mountains and the seas. Are they alive?

No, mountains and seas not alive. This is a straw man argument that has nothing to do with the issue at hand or the scripture referenced. The point of the passage is that all human life (to include life in the womb) is precious and deliberately made by the will of God for a purpose. A purpose that is disregarded and destroyed by abortion.

I think you might need to read that again. It clearly says that if a woman's fruit departs, i.e. has a miscarriage, but no harm occurs then all that is needed is a fine.

The Misuse of Exodus 21:22–25 by Pro-Choice Advocates

So again, why are Christians abandoning the Word of God to justify racially motivated infanticide by planned parenthood?

 

[JacksBratt]

It's not extreme. Trump is diverting money from proven medicine to religion-based mumbo jumbo that lacks comprehensive healthcare coverage.

This is just plain "I don't like anything that Trump does".. type of thinking.

 

[FireDragon76]

This is just plain "I don't like anything that Trump does".. type of thinking.

Rather than address the objection, you prefer to psychologize my motives.

I dislike Trump precisely because of actions like this. Character and behavior matters.

 

[FireDragon76]

Reread my post. I asked what the Lutheran Bible says about the life of an unborn child in the womb...not abortion. I thought that perhaps we were using a different Bible because mine clearly says:

God knew us before He formed us in the womb. (Jeremiah 1:5)

God was an active role in our creation and formation in the womb. (Psalm 139: 13-16)

The Old Testament Law says that whatever harm you cause to an unborn child, you will receive the same fate. Hence, the Old Testament Law prescribed the death penalty for someone who caused the death of a baby in the womb in the same way as someone committing murder would have been put to death. Clearly indicating that the life of an unborn child is just as valuable as any other human life. (Exodus 21:22-25)

So again I ask for a 4th time. Why are Christians abandoning the Word of God to condone the wickedness of the racially motivated slaughter of the unborn by the hands of PP?

That passage is open to interpretation. The translation I am most familiar with says it's about miscarriage, and it perscribes a fine, not death.

At any rate, as a Lutheran I do not believe secular law has to be based on religious laws from the Old Testament. We don't think of the Bible as "Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth". It's a book that tells us about the good news of God's salvation, not an exhaustive guide to human conduct.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

C-sections.

-CryptoLutheran

C-sections are not a natural part of child birth either. Which is why a doctor is required to perform it.

 

[JacksBratt]

Rather than address the objection, you prefer to psychologize my motives.

I dislike Trump precisely because of actions like this. Character and behavior matters.

If Character and behavior matters.... it is a fantastic thing that Hillary lost....

Thank goodness you have Trump and not the Dem's.

 

[Ringo84]

a) are you suggesting that the American tax payer shouldn't have a say in where their tax dollars go?

No I’m not. You seem desperate to read things into what I write. I already said that funding abortion through tax dollars is illegal.

b) Once again, WOMEN ARE STILL GOING TO RECEIVE HEALTHCARE. Do you really think that Planned parenthood is the only show in town that provided women's healthcare? How stupid do you think we are? What you are really concerned about is that Planned Parenthood may be the only show in town that provides convenient and affordable abortion on demand...not women's healthcare.

And once again: cutting $60 million from an organization means cutting into the funds they use for women’s health care.
Ringo

 

[ViaCrucis]

C-sections are not a natural part of child birth either. Which is why a doctor is required to perform it.

The statement was concerning "woman's reproductive health", c-sections are part of a woman's reproductive health that require a doctor. Just because something isn't "a natural part of child birth" doesn't mean it isn't part of a woman's reproductive health.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Reread my post. I asked what the Lutheran Bible says about the life of an unborn child in the womb...not abortion. I thought that perhaps we were using a different Bible because mine clearly says:

God knew us before He formed us in the womb. (Jeremiah 1:5)

Yes, God knew us and loved us even before any of us existed, before the creation of the universe itself. God, who is eternal and timeless, and who predestined us in Jesus, knew us before the very foundation of the world.

God was an active role in our creation and formation in the womb. (Psalm 139: 13-16)

Yes, God created us in our mother's womb. The natural procreative processes are still part of God's creative work.

The Old Testament Law says that whatever harm you cause to an unborn child, you will receive the same fate. Hence, the Old Testament Law prescribed the death penalty for someone who caused the death of a baby in the womb in the same way as someone committing murder would have been put to death. Clearly indicating that the life of an unborn child is just as valuable as any other human life. (Exodus 21:22-25)

So again I ask for a 4th time. Why are Christians abandoning the Word of God to condone the wickedness of the racially motivated slaughter of the unborn by the hands of PP?

You might want to re-read Exodus 21:22-25,

"When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman’s husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."

The harm in question is harm to the pregnant woman. A miscarriage, with no more harm than that, results in a fine; if there is harm [to the woman] then the judge can determine the outcome, up to and including life for life.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Aldebaran]

The Old Testament Law says that whatever harm you cause to an unborn child, you will receive the same fate. Hence, the Old Testament Law prescribed the death penalty for someone who caused the death of a baby in the womb in the same way as someone committing murder would have been put to death. Clearly indicating that the life of an unborn child is just as valuable as any other human life. (Exodus 21:22-25)

Don't waste time trying to appeal to the Left's sense of morality about the unborn. Now they're showing they don't even care about babies after they're born: https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.97ecc0e7c4ee

Every democrat running for president voted against a bill protecting them.