True conspiracy theories.

[Viren]

Well, military training in demolition and explosives is all I have to bring to the discussion. Oh, and a bit on security and search technique. I can't speak to structural engineering, but I'd bet my entire years income that it wasn't a controlled demolition.

I've never understood exactly what the supposed problem with WTC 7 is supposed to be, either, or what could have possibly been in it that would demand such an arcane, round about and imprecise method to destroy if that's what was the target of an "inside job" 9/11.

Someone bought the WTC two months before the attacks, had it insured against such attacks and received 4.55 billion dollars in insurance money. That's one possible motivation.

 

[trunks2k]

Someone bought the WTC two months before the attacks, had it insured against such attacks and received 4.55 billion dollars in insurance money. That's one possible motivation.

That's not profit. The money was to go towards rebuilding the WTC, which as of 2006, was estimated as costing at least $6 billion. Not to mention years of paying rent over a $100 million/yr on land with no revenue. Considering the complex had been a target of terrorism in the past, it's no surprise that a new owner would want it insured against future attacks. In fact court documents show that Silverstein originally tried to buy less coverage for terrorism, but his lenders made him buy more. Additionally, Silverstein tried, and failed, to sue the Airlines for billions to recoup the costs incurred that the insurance didn't cover.

 

[Viren]

That's not profit. The money was to go towards rebuilding the WTC, which as of 2006, was estimated as costing at least $6 billion. Not to mention years of paying rent over a $100 million/yr on land with no revenue. Considering the complex had been a target of terrorism in the past, it's no surprise that a new owner would want it insured against future attacks. In fact court documents show that Silverstein originally tried to buy less coverage for terrorism, but his lenders made him buy more. Additionally, Silverstein tried, and failed, to sue the Airlines for billions to recoup the costs incurred that the insurance didn't cover.

Yeah, he was trying to get 7 billion by claiming that it was two separate terrorist attacks. He signed a 3.2 billion dollar 99 year lease for the WTC and got a 4.5 billion dollar settlement. That's a profit of 1.3 billion. It was probably more profitable in the long run to invest the money in developing the site.

 

[trunks2k]

He signed a 3.2 billion dollar 99 year lease for the WTC and got a 4.5 billion dollar settlement. That's a profit of 1.3 billion.

You're not including the cost of rebuilding. It cost more to rebuild the site than the insurance paid out by far. He originally wanted to insure against terrorist attacks for <$2 billion. His lenders balked at that, so he then suggested insuring it for the expected replacement cost, which was >$5 billion. Then they agreed on the lesser amount of $4.5ish billion. The cost of rebuilding the site was well over $6 billion. Not to mention other expenses and lost revenue.

 

[LastSeven]

There are thousands of conspiracy theories out there. At least 40 or so that are common ones people talk about (fake moon landing, 9/11 inside job, JFK shot dead by <insert group>) but people say 99% of conspiracies are fake and based on very little evidence other then people piecing nothing into something. Most are refutable.

The bigger thing people need to realize about conspiracy theories is as a christian they are dangerous for our walks. Think about it. What do they make you do? They make you paranoid about things, make you fearful, make you think the world is out to get you. All things that go again what God would have us do. Such as we should have hope in Him, trust in Him and so on. Conspiracies are one of the best tricks the devil knows how to use because he knows our weakness for fear.

I was involved in conspiracy forums for half of my life and regret it after I got out of it. It certainly had taking far away from God and my walk with Him.

While it's true that we have to be careful not to get too caught up in things such as this as there is a lot of bogus information out there, it's also irresponsible to close your eyes to the very real deception that is out there. Ironically you warn against being deceived by Satan, but if Satan is causing people/governments to deceive us, aren't we doing exactly what you warn against? Don't over react by dismissing every conspiracy theory as hogwash, just because many of them are.

I also don't believe that being on guard for such things takes us away from our walk from God. In fact, for me it has had the exact opposite effect. It was in 2009 that I started researching the 2012 doomsday theories and in this way I got deep into the word of God, while searching for the truth.

In fact, if anything, we are to be wary of the world because the world is not our friend. James 4:4.

 

[morningstar2651]

What are the odds that George W. Bush's brother would be in charge of the company responsible for security at the airport, the plane and the buildings that were hit? The company was responsible for preventing what happened. It's like a one in a million chance that Marvin Bush would be the one in charge.

Securacom wasn't in charge of security at the World Trade Center - they sold security related equipment to the New York Port Authority for the security of the WTC. Their contract ran out in 1998 and the port authority was in charge of security at the WTC. Marvin Bush's last term elected to the board of directors ended in June 2000. Marvin acquired 53,000 shares at $0.52 per share and sold them off well before 2001 for a neat profit since the IPO price was $8.50 per share.

Securacom (renamed to Stratsec) folded only a couple years after the terror attack due to financial difficulties.

Do you want me to continue digging up the truth, or are you satisfied since they were never in charge of security at the WTC, Bush was not a director or shareholder at the time, and their contract had run out in 1998?

 

[morningstar2651]

Someone bought the WTC two months before the attacks, had it insured against such attacks and received 4.55 billion dollars in insurance money. That's one possible motivation.

What insurance did they buy? Was it airplane insurance?

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Well if governments want to deceive us I don't mind. Theres nothing in this world that anyone can do to put fear into me. Whats the worst that can happen? I become persecuted then die? Thats ok, I know where I go when I die. Obviously as the world falls apart before the end we will all be persecuted, especially by those who fall for the antichrist and get mad we don't follow him.

 

[Viren]

You're not including the cost of rebuilding. It cost more to rebuild the site than the insurance paid out by far. He originally wanted to insure against terrorist attacks for <$2 billion. His lenders balked at that, so he then suggested insuring it for the expected replacement cost, which was >$5 billion. Then they agreed on the lesser amount of $4.5ish billion. The cost of rebuilding the site was well over $6 billion. Not to mention other expenses and lost revenue.

Yeah, but his lease was for 3.2 billion and most of that was borrowed. He only put up 14 million of his own money for the lease. After paying back the 3.2 billion he borrowed, he was left with 1.3 billion in cash. 1 billion of that he invested in the new one world trade center. The rest of the contruction costs were provided by the port authority and the state of New York.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_World_Trade_Center
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Silverstein

 

[Viren]

What insurance did they buy? Was it airplane insurance?

It was insurance against terrorists attacks including planes crashing into the towers. I don't have any problem with that. It's just the timing.

 

[Viren]

Securacom wasn't in charge of security at the World Trade Center - they sold security related equipment to the New York Port Authority for the security of the WTC. Their contract ran out in 1998 and the port authority was in charge of security at the WTC. Marvin Bush's last term elected to the board of directors ended in June 2000. Marvin acquired 53,000 shares at $0.52 per share and sold them off well before 2001 for a neat profit since the IPO price was $8.50 per share.

Securacom (renamed to Stratsec) folded only a couple years after the terror attack due to financial difficulties.

Do you want me to continue digging up the truth, or are you satisfied since they were never in charge of security at the WTC, Bush was not a director or shareholder at the time, and their contract had run out in 1998?

Do you have any other links? According to this one Stratsec ended security equipment sales in 1998, but provided security for the WTC, United Airlines and Dulles airport through 2001 and M. Bush remained on the board up to the day of the attacks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Bush

 

[Armoured]

Someone bought the WTC two months before the attacks, had it insured against such attacks and received 4.55 billion dollars in insurance money. That's one possible motivation.

You understand confirmation bias?

How many other large buildings are insured against such attacks?

 

[Fireinfolding]

It was insurance against terrorists attacks including planes crashing into the towers. I don't have any problem with that. It's just the timing.

That would only be logical to question if a person would take out a specialize insurance policy on their own husband or wife for an extra hundred grand (a few weeks before they kick off) and then they do, but here its just another coincidence.

 

[Viren]

That would only be logical to question if a person would take out a specialize insurance policy on their own husband or wife for an extra hundred grand (a few weeks before they kick off) and then they do, but here its just another coincidence.

Yeah, one of many coincidences. They're almost endless.

 

[trunks2k]

Yeah, one of many coincidences. They're almost endless.

There's coincidences in any big event if you look for them. It's a form of the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yeah, one of many coincidences. They're almost endless.

You are better off calling it 9-11 coincidences

 

[Viren]

You are better off calling it 9-11 coincidences

Or maybe 9-11 improbable coincidences.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Can anyone link to where a well known conspiracy theory has been shown to be real and not just pie in the sky?

Illegal Soviet funding of the Communist Party. In the United States and in many other countries as well. Throughout the Soviet Union's history, this was generally dismissed as a right-wing canard, and at the time it was, as far as I'm aware, exclusively a claim of the far right. However, upon opening the Soviet archives, it appears that in this instance the John Birch Society was right.

There's the Communist Party's espionage activities too, but that was more widely known.

 

[bhsmte]

Can anyone link to where a well known conspiracy theory has been shown to be real and not just pie in the sky?

A conspiracy is simply an unlawful plan of a group of people, to do something in secret.

The work "the plumbers" performed for Richard Nixon during his presidency, was a conspiracy.

 

[StarTemple]

I guess that's what I'm getting at: are there any 'fringe' theories that were hushed up but uncovered by internet slueths?

Well yes. The history of the Federal Reserve is a parallel historical development often discredited lump sum as a "conspiracy theory" when in fact it is fact, not fiction, that they create all US base debt, by money creation.

It is a fact, but its implications are what spawn various general theories of what that means overall. The debt is not the problem, the interest is what ends up aiding the transference of real wealth. That is interest that is mathematically impossible to pay off, or there would be ZERO dollars available.

The "fractional reserve" lending model of credit creation is what many now explain in detail, as global central banks now practice the same technique to end up owning their nations as well.

See:

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...ts-conspiracy-theorist.7899989/#post-68389072