Transvestite in church

[civilwarbuff]

You are very correct Albion! Some body needs to read the OP again very carefully. Would you allow a drunk to bring his/her whisky in church with them?!

Or someone to watch inappropriate content during the service? At some point enuff is enuff; you can have a church where "Christian" means something or you can have a "social club" where it means nothing.

 

[Mudinyeri]

Or someone to watch inappropriate content during the service? At some point enuff is enuff; you can have a church where "Christian" means something or you can have a "social club" where it means nothing.

Wait, what? Only Christians are allowed in church (the building, not the Body of Christ)? I must have completely misinterpreted that whole Great Commission thing.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Wait, what? Only Christians are allowed in church (the building, not the Body of Christ)? I must have completely misinterpreted that whole Great Commission thing.

Don't do this, go to twisting words and meanings. Where did I say that only Christians are allowed in church? I said you can have church where "Christian" means something or a social club where it means nothing. Don't try to derail things.....

 

[Mudinyeri]

Don't do this, go to twisting words and meanings. Where did I say that only Christians are allowed in church? I said you can have church where "Christian" means something or a social club where it means nothing. Don't try to derail things.....

Apparently, I didn't hear what you said ... so to speak. Given the context of the discussion, your comment about "Christian" meaning something made me think you somehow felt only "Christians" should be in churches.

Not trying to derail things. Just trying to help people identify Biblical standards vs. traditions vs. opinions. As I mentioned, I grew up in a very legalistic church with a similar attitude - you needed to clean up certain sins before you could darken the door. Other sins ... well, we don't talk about those.

My comments in this thread are an outflow of that hypocritical, judgmental upbringing which I am constantly trying to shed in keeping with Christ's example and in an exhaustive study of His instructions.

 

[South Bound]

Should a man dressed as a woman be excepted "dressed as a woman" in church?

No.

Obviously, a church should not tolerate a member dressing as a woman. If a member, then he should be pulled aside, God's roles for the sexes explained to him, the Gospel preached to him, and a call to repent given to him. If he does not, then go to the next disciplinary step.

But if the guy isn't a member, but a visitor, then a little more discretion is involved. He should be pulled aside, God's role for the sexes explained to him, the Gospel preached to him, and a call to repent given to him with the understanding that he may be a confused individual and, without Christ, is in the same boat as we were.

Now, if he's there are some sort of a political statement, then I call him out publically and preach right to him and call him publically to repent.

 

[Mudinyeri]

But if the guy isn't a member, but a visitor, then a little more discretion is involved. He should be pulled aside, God's role for the sexes explained to him, the Gospel preached to him, and a call to repent given to him with the understanding that he may be a confused individual and, without Christ, is in the same boat as we were.

I think you and I are pretty close to being in agreement. There might be a bit of detail in the depths of the "pulling aside" where we disagree (not sure), but, fortunately, the Bible gives us some guidance in this area.

 

[mikedsjr]

Agreed. However, if He had never "let her in the building" - if He had never approached her, He would never have had the opportunity to develop a relationship with her and discuss her sin in a kind and caring manner.

Christ regularly "accommodated" sinners by going to their houses to eat dinner with them, allowing them to wash his feet, allowing them to be hung on a cross next to him ....

Your losing me. I think your just throwing up examples found in scripture on not worrying about context.

 

[Mudinyeri]

Your losing me. I think your just throwing up examples found in scripture on not worrying about context.

I'll agree some of them don't fit perfectly. No example does. I'm just coming as close as I can to try to draw a parallel and understand why anyone would want to keep a sinner from being in a church and hearing God's Word.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Apparently, I didn't hear what you said ... so to speak. Given the context of the discussion, your comment about "Christian" meaning something made me think you somehow felt only "Christians" should be in churches.

Absolutely not....if the analogy of Church as a hospital for sinners, I am in the ICU. But if you have someone who is sinning in Church you have to put a stop to that. That cannot be allowed.

 

[Albion]

Christ regularly "accommodated" sinners by going to their houses to eat dinner with them, allowing them to wash his feet, allowing them to be hung on a cross next to him ....

Don't redefine my words, please. I thought that you would know by my use of the word accommodated that Jesus did not condone or even overlook the other party's sins.

 

[twin1954]

So, you're currently applying the same policy to lust, gossip and gluttony, right?

If it was being practiced in the church and I knew about it yes I would. In fact I have reprimanded a few for gossip in the past.

I rarely preach against particular sins because it is pointless. What I do is tell folks, believers and unbelievers alike, that sin is not what we do it is what we are by nature. It resides in the heart and every sin ever committed is in our hearts. We don't even know the depth of our depravity nor the blackness of our souls in our nature. We deceive ourselves into thinking that we aren't so bad and try to look at others and point the finger at them but in reality they are no different than we are. I preach the wretchedness and evil that sin is against God and point them to Christ as their only hope.

 

[mikedsjr]

I'll agree some of them don't fit perfectly. No example does. I'm just coming as close as I can to try to draw a parallel and understand why anyone would want to keep a sinner from being in a church and hearing God's Word.

That's fair enough point. I'm just one who believes using Scripture to back up a position should always be done with absolute consistency to Scripture. I thought your question is valid. I'm just over sensitive to how Scripture is used. Sometimes rightfully so and sometimes I'm just over sensitive for no legit reason because I didn't think it through.

 

[2win]

Wait, what? Only Christians are allowed in church (the building, not the Body of Christ)? I must have completely misinterpreted that whole Great Commission thing.

Mud, please read carefully the OP.

 

[2win]

If it was being practiced in the church and I knew about it yes I would. In fact I have reprimanded a few for gossip in the past.

I rarely preach against particular sins because it is pointless. What I do is tell folks, believers and unbelievers alike, that sin is not what we do it is what we are by nature. It resides in the heart and every sin ever committed is in our hearts. We don't even know the depth of our depravity nor the blackness of our souls in our nature. We deceive ourselves into thinking that we aren't so bad and try to look at others and point the finger at them but in reality they are no different than we are. I preach the wretchedness and evil that sin is against God and point them to Christ as their only hope.

It is amazing how some folks on here twist the OP, to make it sound like I am saying we shouldn't allow sinners in church; while others understand very clearly what the OP is about!

 

[mmksparbud]

Is the man a transvestite or a transgender? They are not the same.

 

[mikedsjr]

It is amazing how some folks on here twist the OP, to make it sound like I am saying we shouldn't allow sinners in church; while others understand very clearly what the OP is about!

Welcome to 2016

 

[2win]

It is amazing how some folks on here twist the OP, to make it sound like I am saying we shouldn't allow sinners in church; while others understand very clearly what the OP is about!

By the way; it seems I didn't make it clear that the "man" in question was "invited as a guest; another Baptist Church of the same denomination(Southern Baptist) had refused to let him in " DRESSED AS A WOMAN".

 

[Landon Caeli]

If we start asking people to leave the church (or leave their sin outside the door before they come in), churches will be empty.

Well, the goal isn't to increase numbers. It's to save souls, right?

...Sorry, I know I'm Catholic, but I have family who are Baptists through marriage on my wifes side.

 

[Landon Caeli]

...wait. Nevermind. I forgot about being saved for us is a bit different. Sorry.

 

[98cwitr]

Agreed. However, if He had never "let her in the building" - if He had never approached her, He would never have had the opportunity to develop a relationship with her and discuss her sin in a kind and caring manner.

Christ regularly "accommodated" sinners by going to their houses to eat dinner with them, allowing them to wash his feet, allowing them to be hung on a cross next to him ....

Actually I don't recall any Scripture saying that Jesus approached anyone other than the disciples. In fact I find the opposite, them [seeking] coming to Him. In order to do that, they realized they needed saving [because of their sin]. Does the Master find us ready (Luke 12)?

Do you think that a man showing up in drag realizes his sins? As to not be a hypocrite, we need to come as we truly are; sin and all; and lay it at the feet of Christ. Now, if he had come to the church with his make up smeared and drag clothes in hand...saying I don't want this anymore...now that would be something else entirely. I personally think people like that just want to keep their sins and still be accepted by God.

This whole "come as you are" should not be interpreted as "be accepted despite your sins."

What happened to repentance?