Those who will never believe

[98cwitr]

Assumptions:

God is Omniscient; knowing all things, past, present, and future
God is the Creator; He created you and me

Proposed Question:

Why does God create people who will never believe?

 

[Goodbook]

He didnt and your assumption is wrong.

Jesus came for all. It is peoples choice to believe, only a fool can say there is no God. Even on judgement day they will believe there is a God because He will reveal himself to them. Satan is the one who is blinding people to the gospel.

We who come to believe in Him through Jesus have a commission to spread the gospel.

 

[98cwitr]

He didnt and your assumption is wrong.

Jesus came for all. It is peoples choice to believe, only a fool can say there is no God. Even on judgement day they will believe there is a God because He will reveal himself to them. Satan is the one who is blinding people to the gospel.

We who come to believe in Him through Jesus have a commission to spread the gospel.

There are two assumptions being made. Which of them is wrong?

 

[clemenslee]

This is based on the idea that Foreknowledge must mean Ultimate determination, and no free-will right?

 

[mikedsjr]

Assumptions:

God is Omniscient; knowing all things, past, present, and future
God is the Creator; He created you and me

Proposed Question:

Why does God create people who will never believe?

To get to the other side.

*rim shot*

 

[98cwitr]

Before we go bounding off into the oblivion that is the debate of free will, let's try to first simply answer the question in the OP, or refute the assumptions.

 

[clemenslee]

How can you even begin to answer without Going into the Idea. Either God created us with his ultimate determination to make it come to pass. or He created us with free-will and has forknowledge of the result of the actions we choose. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[98cwitr]

How can you even begin to answer without Going into the Idea. Either God created us with his ultimate determination to make it come to pass. or He created us with free-will and has forknowledge of the result of the actions we choose. Maybe I'm missing something?

Yes, it seems you're missing the question. First, imagine a person who will live their entire life in opposition to God and His Word, never to come to salvation. Why would God create this person? You're trying to see it from your own humanistic viewpoint. Try to step outside of that box.

 

[clemenslee]

This is begging the question: Did the man choose this or was decreed by god. Your original question started with a assumption stated as fact. The assumption is God creates non believers, in return being a evil God. and also assumes that those in question have no choice because you assume foreknowledge means determination. i don't think I'm not trying to step outside the box.

 

[98cwitr]

This is begging the question: Did the man choose this or was decreed by god. Your original question started with a assumption stated as fact. The assumption is God creates non believers, in return being a evil God. and also assumes that those in question have no choice because you assume foreknowledge means determination. i don't think I'm not trying to step outside the box.

You're jumping way way ahead. Let's try to answer the question of why. I don't want to get off on any tangents just yet if we can help it. The only hard fact is that this hypothetical person or people will never believe. The rest are assumptions. You have a choice: Refute the assumptions, or submit your thought why God would create them.

 

[clemenslee]

While I don't see the purpose of this, Maybe you should state your thoughts first. But if they will never believe and God creates them anyway then God himself determined there fate for them and would be a evil God I suppose. Because to say they never will believe in itself requires a determiner. Which in this case would be being created this way.

 

[98cwitr]

While I don't see the purpose of this, Maybe you should state your thoughts first. But if they will never believe and God creates them anyway then God himself determined there fate for them and would be a evil God I suppose. Because to say they never will believe in itself requires a determiner. Which in this case would be being created this way.

Im failing to find an answer in this post. Are you going to then refute the assumptions?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I will say that Jesus told us in His Word that we do not know all spiritual things.

So my guess is I do not know myself, but God knows and He is perfect.

 

[mikedsjr]

While I don't see the purpose of this, Maybe you should state your thoughts first. But if they will never believe and God creates them anyway then God himself determined there fate for them and would be a evil God I suppose. Because to say they never will believe in itself requires a determiner. Which in this case would be being created this way.

Do you believe in Original sin? That we are born sinners?

 

[clemenslee]

Do you believe in Original sin? That we are born sinners?

Yes I do believe in original sin, which in my view is part of the nature of man. Adam already had the nature to sin but was innocent because he did not have knowledge of God's law which is the tree of good and evil. After he ate his eyes were opened and became guilty because then he had knowledge of evil and good. I believe babies are the same way. Being innocent because they have no knowledge of good and evil until they reach an age of accountability.

 

[Bluelion]

How about the answer is They are not from God. Where are they from I have no idea, but God says we are from Him when we are born again. Being born of Spirit of God. I have an idea that creation is not done yet we are going through it right now. Those that come to God will have new bodies and be in the New earth those who will not are the waste of creation. The after math that came from the creation process. Jesus referred to hell as a place of waste, where it goes. But that is just a theory.

 

[Winken]

God said to Adam-Eve, be fruitful and multiply. Adam-Eve removed themselves from the equation. Now the fruit of their relationship was born separate and apart from our Creator. The fruit was subsequently born in sin. Each one born in sin has the option of remaining there, or being declared "not guilty" through confessing Jesus as Savior.

 

[98cwitr]

How about the answer is They are not from God. Where are they from I have no idea, but God says we are from Him when we are born again. Being born of Spirit of God. I have an idea that creation is not done yet we are going through it right now. Those that come to God will have new bodies and be in the New earth those who will not are the waste of creation. The after math that came from the creation process. Jesus referred to hell as a place of waste, where it goes. But that is just a theory.

Blue, am I to understand this as your refutation of Assumption #2?

 

[98cwitr]

God said to Adam-Eve, be fruitful and multiply. Adam-Eve removed themselves from the equation. Now the fruit of their relationship was born separate and apart from our Creator. The fruit was subsequently born in sin. Each one born in sin has the option of remaining there, or being declared "not guilty" through confessing Jesus as Savior.

Thoughts regarding the following Scripture please

Psalm 119:73
[ י Yodh ] Your hands made me and formed me; give me understanding to learn your commands.

Isaiah 29:16
You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay! Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, “You did not make me”? Can the pot say to the potter, “You know nothing”?

Isaiah 49:5
And now the Lord says— he who formed me in the womb to be his servant to bring Jacob back to him and gather Israel to himself, for I am honored in the eyes of the Lord and my God has been my strength—

Job 31:15
Did not he who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?

Psalm 22:9
Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.

Isaiah 44:2
This is what the Lord says— he who made you, who formed you in the womb, and who will help you: Do not be afraid, Jacob, my servant, Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.

You're still not addressing the question though. Why did God make them. In this scenario the people or persons in scope will never believe nor confess. So why did God create them?

 

[Winken]

Thoughts regarding the following Scripture please

Psalm 119:73
[ י Yodh ] Your hands made me and formed me; give me understanding to learn your commands.

Isaiah 29:16
You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay! Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, “You did not make me”? Can the pot say to the potter, “You know nothing”?

Isaiah 49:5
And now the Lord says— he who formed me in the womb to be his servant to bring Jacob back to him and gather Israel to himself, for I am honored in the eyes of the Lord and my God has been my strength—

The Spiritual divide is the key.