The True Church

[EastCoastRemnant]

[Never did figure out what kind of clothes he wore to justify being thrown into the "outer darkness"?]

The filthy rags of self righteousness... the wedding garment is Christ's righteousness given to us.

 

[sunlover1]

The filthy rags of self righteousness... the wedding garment is Christ's righteousness given to us.

Good word!

 

[stephen583]

the wedding garment is Christ's righteousness given to us.

C'mon dude. "Righteousness" ?! Really ??? Are you kidding me ? Having lived as a homeless guy for the last ten years I've seen every scam, racket and swindle perpetrated on the homeless and communities in the name of organized religion (crime ?!) anyone can imagine.

I worked in the second hand clothing store at Bridge House in New Orleans, and watched employees load the trunks of their cars with donated leather jackets, NFL custom football jackets and leather boots and shoes by the arm load. I saw owners of private second hand stores pick through donations and bag up the good stuff for re-sale at the Volunteer of America Shelter in Durango, Colorado and the homeless shelter in Canyon City.

I've seen people in Cadillac Escalades and Lincoln Town cars picking up their monthly boxes of donated food, and the donated food at soup kitchens being off loaded from trucks and being loaded directly into the cars of employees without any of the food ever making it inside the building.

The donors get a tax right off, and the thieves running these criminal (Non-profit ?!) organizations pad their salaries with illegal re-sale and kick-backs. It works for everybody, except for the truly needy and homeless, who get little of nothing. Sometimes the food is so rotten, that it would make a billy goat puke. Then if you're lucky, you get chosen to sleep in a bed full of lice and bed bugs. Of course, first you have to take a shower in a stall with used needles on the floor and human feces everywhere.

I even saw a pregnant woman with two toddlers being thrown out into a snow storm in the middle of winter at night, without even being offered a blanket, or a plastic garbage bag as a makeshift raincoat. Why ? The woman lost her I.D. (No i.d, no way to verify one's identity and get reimbursed by federal and state grant money). Out you go.. into the snow. Happy trails.

In Atlanta Georgia, you can stay at the Salvation Army Shelter for three dollars a day, if you are willing to climb on truck every morning and do commercial tear down day work till sunset. You get paid $7 dollars a day. Three bucks goes to the Salvation Army for lodging and supper, the other four dollars just so happens to be what a pint of cheap whiskey costs at the liqueur store across the street. I guess the rest of the money is paid by the contractors directly to the S.A. under the table. Sort of smacks of anti-organized labor racketeering and slavery, doesn't it ?! But who's looking ?!

In Albuquerque, "Burn a Brillo" county in the great state of New Methico, security at the Mission turns the metal detector off and waves the drug dealers to the front of the line (because they're busy guys), and lets them into the shelter packing 9mm pistols. The dealers eat first and then head to the bathroom where they sling meth, crack and heroine. No one ever gets busted, it's all very slick and protected. Squeal on anyone, and you get shot.

In Salt Lake City Utah the LDS Church runs everything, including the Salvation Army. Donations of food, furniture, clothing, even public and private housing are used to recruit for the LDS Church. Women in particular are recruited by the LDS as members, and after they are gifted with whatever they need and adequately supported, they are forced into marriages with unmarried LDS members. After all, the LDS Church believes in "family values" and women really should be married, shouldn't they ?!

Even the Pope is making a fine show this week of allowing three Syrian Muslim refugee families to stay at the Vatican. As he said on Portugal radio "Renancio" a couple of months ago, "families offer more control and less danger of terrorist infiltration compared to single individuals". (Quote).

Question is, why didn't he choose three Arab Christian refugee families ??? Aren't they the ones ISIS is beheading and persecuting in Syria and Iraq ??? Wouldn't Christians be far less likely to be ISIS infiltrators ?! I guess they aren't RCC though, are they ? So it's, enjoy the internment camp on Cypress and "Happy Trails" again.

So as for the "righteous" part.. all I can say is, may God have mercy on your souls when you meet Jesus Christ face to face.

 

[Albion]

You can't be serious............Wherever did you come up with that type of nonsense?


.

Wherever did anyone come up with the idea that bishops wear statues of FISH on their heads?? And what conceivable logic could there be in that? By the way, that attire was not as pictured until well into the Middle Ages, so the idea that it's a carryover from some Pagan predecessors is nonsense.

 

[Albion]

Unfortunately Albion, my life experience has made me a most harsh judge. As a sheriff deputy, I arrested and sent lots of men to prison. My testimony in the 22nd Judicial court resulted in several of them being executed. You probably recall the name Robert Willie (played by Shawn Penn in the 1995 movie "Dead Man Walking" with the actress Susan Sarandon playing a nun who tried to save him). I drove Robert Willie and his murderous partner Joe Vaccaro to the State Penitentiary at Angola, where Robert Willie was put to death by lethal injection.

I also survived and lost everything in Hurricane Katrina in 2005, and lived homeless in a tent in the mountains of Colorado and on the rivers and creeks in Arizona for the next ten years. So as far as finding any leniency or mercy goes, I'm afraid you've come to the wrong shop.. I don't have either of those in stock.

I know I will be "judged, as I have judged" (Matthew 7:1-3). No need to remind me. I know what's coming, nevertheless, we are the sum of our experiences, and I am definitely not someone you want to be judged by. Like the comedian Eddie Izzard says, "We have cake or death, and today we're all out of cake, so what's it going to be" ?!

We're all interested in helping you. Unfortunately, there is no "quickie" answer to the inequalities in life. But we're not doubting you, either.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

C'mon dude. "Righteousness" ?! Really ??? Are you kidding me ? Having lived as a homeless guy for the last ten years I've seen every scam, racket and swindle perpetrated on the homeless and communities in the name of organized religion (crime ?!) anyone can imagine.

I worked in the second hand clothing store at Bridge House in New Orleans, and watched employees load the trunks of their cars with donated leather jackets, NFL custom football jackets and leather boots and shoes by the arm load. I saw owners of private second hand stores pick through donations and bag up the good stuff for re-sale at the Volunteer of America Shelter in Durango, Colorado and the homeless shelter in Canyon City.

I've seen people in Cadillac Escalades and Lincoln Town cars picking up their monthly boxes of donated food, and the donated food at soup kitchens being off loaded from trucks and being loaded directly into the cars of employees without any of the food ever making it inside the building.

The donors get a tax right off, and the thieves running these criminal (Non-profit ?!) organizations pad their salaries with illegal re-sale and kick-backs. It works for everybody, except for the truly needy and homeless, who get little of nothing. Sometimes the food is so rotten, that it would make a billy goat puke. Then if you're lucky, you get chosen to sleep in a bed full of lice and bed bugs. Of course, first you have to take a shower in a stall with used needles on the floor and human feces everywhere.

I even saw a pregnant woman with two toddlers being thrown out into a snow storm in the middle of winter at night, without even being offered a blanket, or a plastic garbage bag as a makeshift raincoat. Why ? The woman lost her I.D. (No i.d, no way to verify one's identity and get reimbursed by federal and state grant money). Out you go.. into the snow. Happy trails.

In Atlanta Georgia, you can stay at the Salvation Army Shelter for three dollars a day, if you are willing to climb on truck every morning and do commercial tear down day work till sunset. You get paid $7 dollars a day. Three bucks goes to the Salvation Army for lodging and supper, the other four dollars just so happens to be what a pint of cheap whiskey costs at the liqueur store across the street. I guess the rest of the money is paid by the contractors directly to the S.A. under the table. Sort of smacks of anti-organized labor racketeering and slavery, doesn't it ?! But who's looking ?!

In Albuquerque, "Burn a Brillo" county in the great state of New Methico, security at the Mission turns the metal detector off and waves the drug dealers to the front of the line (because they're busy guys), and lets them into the shelter packing 9mm pistols. The dealers eat first and then head to the bathroom where they sling meth, crack and heroine. No one ever gets busted, it's all very slick and protected. Squeal on anyone, and you get shot.

In Salt Lake City Utah the LDS Church runs everything, including the Salvation Army. Donations of food, furniture, clothing, even public and private housing are used to recruit for the LDS Church. Women in particular are recruited by the LDS as members, and after they are gifted with whatever they need and adequately supported, they are forced into marriages with unmarried LDS members. After all, the LDS Church believes in "family values" and women really should be married, shouldn't they ?!

Even the Pope is making a fine show this week of allowing three Syrian Muslim refugee families to stay at the Vatican. As he said on Portugal radio "Renancio" a couple of months ago, "families offer more control and less danger of terrorist infiltration compared to single individuals". (Quote).

Question is, why didn't he choose three Arab Christian refugee families ??? Aren't they the ones ISIS is beheading and persecuting in Syria and Iraq ??? Wouldn't Christians be far less likely to be ISIS infiltrators ?! I guess they aren't RCC though, are they ? So it's, enjoy the internment camp on Cypress and "Happy Trails" again.

So as for the "righteous" part.. all I can say is, may God have mercy on your souls when you meet Jesus Christ face to face.

There are lots of examples in this world of people professing to be doing Christ's work that are self serving or worse, preying upon the helpless. I'm not sure what that has to do with genuine believers that Christ bestows His righteousness to though? God knows our deeds and our hearts... many will come to Him on that day saying Lord, did we not do all these wonderful things in your name? And He will send them away to destruction because of their unlawfulness.

Remember, Jesus told us that whatever you do the least of these brethren, you are doing to Him...

 

[Billy p]

Maybe the issue isn't how we dress but runs much deeper, who do we follow? We have our own flavor of churches and doctrines but it can't be right for Jesus was never divided. The true church is not made by man's opinions and mix of interpreted scriptures but does what Jesus said and not what I say or Paul or Peter or whoever. John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

 

[stephen583]

There are lots of examples in this world of people professing to be doing Christ's work that are self serving or worse, preying upon the helpless. I'm not sure what that has to do with genuine believers that Christ bestows His righteousness to though?

I was under the impression the Scripture says there are none who are "righteous" except God.

"Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins"
(Ecclesiastes 7:20, NAS).

"What are mortals, that they could be pure, or those born of woman, that they could be righteous"
(Job 15:14).

"Do not bring your servant into judgment, for no one living is righteous before you"
(Psalm 143:2).

"Who can say, "I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin" (Proverbs 20:9).

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" (Romans 3:23).

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8-10).

Doesn't sound to me like Jesus simply bestows his righteousness on anyone simply as a matter of grace, because they were christened, baptized, or joined a church. If I'm mistaken, you should have no problem posting the Scripture you are following with regard to your statement. I've got one that says exactly the opposite.

"Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me, cannot be My disciple" (Luke 14:27, ASV).

Sounds to me, like a lot of religious have some "heavy lifting" to do before they're in any shape to be calling themselves "righteous" in the eyes of Christ.

That has always been my personal standard for judging people as well. I'm not a psychic or mind reader. I don't divine people's aura's. People make all kind of claims and oaths and assurances that aren't real. All I can go by are their actions.. "You shall know a tree by its fruit" (Matthew 7:15-20).

 

[sculleywr]

Maybe the issue isn't how we dress but runs much deeper, who do we follow? We have our own flavor of churches and doctrines but it can't be right for Jesus was never divided. The true church is not made by man's opinions and mix of interpreted scriptures but does what Jesus said and not what I say or Paul or Peter or whoever. John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

It is correct that Christ is not divides, and that the true Church is not made by man's opinions. But it's very unpopular to question the incumbent doctrine of the invisible church in such a fashion. As far as that doctrine is concerned, every denomination has equal claim to the Truth, and it is wrong to claim to have the whole Truth.

 

[Berean777]

C'mon dude. "Righteousness" ?! Really ??? Are you kidding me ? Having lived as a homeless guy for the last ten years I've seen every scam, racket and swindle perpetrated on the homeless and communities in the name of organized religion (crime ?!) anyone can imagine.

I worked in the second hand clothing store at Bridge House in New Orleans, and watched employees load the trunks of their cars with donated leather jackets, NFL custom football jackets and leather boots and shoes by the arm load. I saw owners of private second hand stores pick through donations and bag up the good stuff for re-sale at the Volunteer of America Shelter in Durango, Colorado and the homeless shelter in Canyon City.

I've seen people in Cadillac Escalades and Lincoln Town cars picking up their monthly boxes of donated food, and the donated food at soup kitchens being off loaded from trucks and being loaded directly into the cars of employees without any of the food ever making it inside the building.

The donors get a tax right off, and the thieves running these criminal (Non-profit ?!) organizations pad their salaries with illegal re-sale and kick-backs. It works for everybody, except for the truly needy and homeless, who get little of nothing. Sometimes the food is so rotten, that it would make a billy goat puke. Then if you're lucky, you get chosen to sleep in a bed full of lice and bed bugs. Of course, first you have to take a shower in a stall with used needles on the floor and human feces everywhere.

I even saw a pregnant woman with two toddlers being thrown out into a snow storm in the middle of winter at night, without even being offered a blanket, or a plastic garbage bag as a makeshift raincoat. Why ? The woman lost her I.D. (No i.d, no way to verify one's identity and get reimbursed by federal and state grant money). Out you go.. into the snow. Happy trails.

In Atlanta Georgia, you can stay at the Salvation Army Shelter for three dollars a day, if you are willing to climb on truck every morning and do commercial tear down day work till sunset. You get paid $7 dollars a day. Three bucks goes to the Salvation Army for lodging and supper, the other four dollars just so happens to be what a pint of cheap whiskey costs at the liqueur store across the street. I guess the rest of the money is paid by the contractors directly to the S.A. under the table. Sort of smacks of anti-organized labor racketeering and slavery, doesn't it ?! But who's looking ?!

In Albuquerque, "Burn a Brillo" county in the great state of New Methico, security at the Mission turns the metal detector off and waves the drug dealers to the front of the line (because they're busy guys), and lets them into the shelter packing 9mm pistols. The dealers eat first and then head to the bathroom where they sling meth, crack and heroine. No one ever gets busted, it's all very slick and protected. Squeal on anyone, and you get shot.

In Salt Lake City Utah the LDS Church runs everything, including the Salvation Army. Donations of food, furniture, clothing, even public and private housing are used to recruit for the LDS Church. Women in particular are recruited by the LDS as members, and after they are gifted with whatever they need and adequately supported, they are forced into marriages with unmarried LDS members. After all, the LDS Church believes in "family values" and women really should be married, shouldn't they ?!

Even the Pope is making a fine show this week of allowing three Syrian Muslim refugee families to stay at the Vatican. As he said on Portugal radio "Renancio" a couple of months ago, "families offer more control and less danger of terrorist infiltration compared to single individuals". (Quote).

Question is, why didn't he choose three Arab Christian refugee families ??? Aren't they the ones ISIS is beheading and persecuting in Syria and Iraq ??? Wouldn't Christians be far less likely to be ISIS infiltrators ?! I guess they aren't RCC though, are they ? So it's, enjoy the internment camp on Cypress and "Happy Trails" again.

So as for the "righteous" part.. all I can say is, may God have mercy on your souls when you meet Jesus Christ face to face.

The outcome of their judgment is much much worse. Christ is sitting his his heavenly throne and editing for them, for death will bring them before their maker for judgment of the works done in the body. Jesus Christ will not tell them happy trails, he will tell them......

'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' (Matthew 7:23)

Everyone dies friend, and this certainty will present the small the big, the rich and the poor before the judgment seat of Christ and boy will that be a disaster for many.

 

[Berean777]

I was under the impression the Scripture says there are none who are "righteous" except God.

"Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins"
(Ecclesiastes 7:20, NAS).

"What are mortals, that they could be pure, or those born of woman, that they could be righteous"
(Job 15:14).

"Do not bring your servant into judgment, for no one living is righteous before you"
(Psalm 143:2).

"Who can say, "I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin" (Proverbs 20:9).

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" (Romans 3:23).

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8-10).

Doesn't sound to me like Jesus simply bestows his righteousness on anyone simply as a matter of grace, because they were christened, baptized, or joined a church. If I'm mistaken, you should have no problem posting the Scripture you are following with regard to your statement. I've got one that says exactly the opposite.

"Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me, cannot be My disciple" (Luke 14:27, ASV).

Sounds to me, like a lot of religious have some "heavy lifting" to do before they're in any shape to be calling themselves "righteous" in the eyes of Christ.

That has always been my personal standard for judging people as well. I'm not a psychic or mind reader. I don't divine people's aura's. People make all kind of claims and oaths and assurances that aren't real. All I can go by are their actions.. "You shall know a tree by its fruit" (Matthew 7:15-20).

Faith is no more friend, they have replaced it with worldly beliefs and their belief system prevents them from establishing a true relationship with Christ. Christ views those poor and down trodden in society as the rich and those who think that they have from a worldly context, as the poor. What the rich and the swindlers of the world have will be taken from them, when their lives come to an abrupt end, to face the most horrible sentence imaginable, that is, separation from God forever.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I was under the impression the Scripture says there are none who are "righteous" except God.

"Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins"
(Ecclesiastes 7:20, NAS).

"What are mortals, that they could be pure, or those born of woman, that they could be righteous"
(Job 15:14).

"Do not bring your servant into judgment, for no one living is righteous before you"
(Psalm 143:2).

"Who can say, "I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin" (Proverbs 20:9).

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" (Romans 3:23).

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8-10).

Doesn't sound to me like Jesus simply bestows his righteousness on anyone simply as a matter of grace, because they were christened, baptized, or joined a church. If I'm mistaken, you should have no problem posting the Scripture you are following with regard to your statement. I've got one that says exactly the opposite.

"Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me, cannot be My disciple" (Luke 14:27, ASV).

Sounds to me, like a lot of religious have some "heavy lifting" to do before they're in any shape to be calling themselves "righteous" in the eyes of Christ.

That has always been my personal standard for judging people as well. I'm not a psychic or mind reader. I don't divine people's aura's. People make all kind of claims and oaths and assurances that aren't real. All I can go by are their actions.. "You shall know a tree by its fruit" (Matthew 7:15-20).

Romans 4:3-7
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Ephesians 6:14
Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

James 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous.

Revelation 19:8
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

 

[Albion]

Romans 4:3-7
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Ephesians 6:14
Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

James 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous.

Revelation 19:8
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Did you notice that verse after verse that you offered us qualifies the righteousness spoken of. It's God righteousness or the righteousness of the saints or we might be made righteous or it might be counted as righteousness, etc.?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Did you notice that verse after verse that you offered us qualifies the righteousness spoken of. It's God righteousness or the righteousness of the saints or we might be made righteous or it might be counted as righteousness, etc.?

If you had read my comment I stated Christ's Righteousness is imputed to us. I never said we are righteous of our own accord.

 

[Billy p]

It is correct that Christ is not divides, and that the true Church is not made by man's opinions. But it's very unpopular to question the incumbent doctrine of the invisible church in such a fashion. As far as that doctrine is concerned, every denomination has equal claim to the Truth, and it is wrong to claim to have the whole Truth.

You might not like it but it is meant @EastCoatRemnant since he is the one looking for truth in this regard, almost everybody are just making it difficult to find anything

 

[Albion]

If you had read my comment I stated Christ's Righteousness is imputed to us. I never said we are righteous of our own accord.

Sure, sure, but I was suggesting that we take note of the fact that, with these verses, one after another shades the meaning so that the idea of a person being righteous is not as simple as it seems at first glance. Is there some reason for you to become instantly defensive over that?

 

[stephen583]

My point is, if there was a Pre-Tribulation Rapture tomorrow.. The religion of Christianity has become so perfunctory nowadays, so few people would be raptured, it would probably go unnoticed by everyone else. Anyhow, doesn't the Bible say the Rapture will be preceded by a great "falling away" first, (2 Thessalonians 2:3) ???

If everything is so good, why must Elijah come and restore what has been lost, before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes, (Malachi 4:5) ?!4 I mean, it's either good, or it's lost.. It can't be both, now can it ? Why are the teachings of Christ and the Apostles so filled with warnings about religious apostasy during the end times, if none exists ??? Seems like an awful waste of prophesying, doesn't it ???

Some who post in this forum have stated they believe the Church, (or their part of it anyway) is in pretty good shape nowadays. I disagree. Sorry if that assessment sounds overly severe. Even so, Churches that appear to understand and teach the real Gospel of Christ, acknowledge those that don't (i.e, fringe groups and cults), as also representing legitimate members of the body of Christ. In effect, endorsing what they know to be patently Unchristian. How can this be right and acceptable according to the Gospel ??? I don't believe it can be.

"So, because you are LUKE WARM, neither hot nor cold, I am about to SPIT YOU OUT OF MY MOUTH" (Rev. 3:16).

"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, AND CAST IT FROM THEE: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy MEMBERS SHOULD PERISH, and not that thy WHOLE BODY should be CAST INTO HELL", (Matthew 5:29,KJV).

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

My point is, if there was a Pre-Tribulation Rapture tomorrow.. The religion of Christianity has become so perfunctory nowadays, so few people would be raptured, it would probably go unnoticed by everyone else. Anyhow, doesn't the Bible say the Rapture will be preceded by a great "falling away" first, (2 Thessalonians 2:3) ???

If everything is so good, why must Elijah come and restore what has been lost, before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes, (Malachi 4:5) ?!4 I mean, it's either good, or it's lost.. It can't be both, now can it ? Why are the teachings of Christ and the Apostles so filled with warnings about religious apostasy during the end times, if none exists ??? Seems like an awful waste of prophesying, doesn't it ???

Some who post in this forum have stated they believe the Church, (or their part of it anyway) is in pretty good shape nowadays. I disagree. Sorry if that assessment sounds overly severe. Even so, Churches that appear to understand and teach the real Gospel of Christ, acknowledge those that don't (i.e, fringe groups and cults), as also representing legitimate members of the body of Christ. In effect, endorsing what they know to be patently Unchristian. How can this be right and acceptable according to the Gospel ??? I don't believe it can be.

"So, because you are LUKE WARM, neither hot nor cold, I am about to SPIT YOU OUT OF MY MOUTH" (Rev. 3:16).

"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, AND CAST IT FROM THEE: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy MEMBERS SHOULD PERISH, and not that thy WHOLE BODY should be CAST INTO HELL", (Matthew 5:29,KJV).

The Bible does not say there will be a pre trib rapture...

Matt 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[stephen583]

The Bible does not say there will be a pre trib rapture

I fall in the Post-Trib Rapture category myself. I think the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is one of the weakest doctrines found in all of Christian theology. Not only because it lacks straightforward and explicit scriptural evidence to support it, but as indicated in the previous post, there are many examples of scripture that implicitly conflict with a Pre-Trib doctrine. So many in fact, I find it astonishing the Pre-Trib doctrine is as popular as it appears to be with so many Christians.

Not only does one have to "stretch" the words beyond what is explicitly stated to support Pre-Tribulation doctrine, but then one also has to "dismiss" a mountain of scriptural evidence to the contrary. It seems to me a very convoluted and contrived process by which someone arrives at an idea, and so, it strikes me as being a convenient fabrication.

The Pre-Trib doctrine is also a recent belief that didn't enjoy any widespread popularity, or real articulation until the 1800's. Even the evidence of theologians who (may have) introduced the idea of a Pre-Trib doctrine early on, (around 140 A.D), owes itself to an elasticized (stretched) interpretation of the writings of these theologians beyond what is explicitly stated. In other words, this evidence appears like a clever and convenient contrivance, rather than solid evidence.

The doctrine of the Virgin Mary as a "Co-Redeemer" and "Co-Mediatrix", or intercessor equal to Christ (Mariology), also strikes me as being a contrivance clearly opposed by scripture, (1 Timothy 2:5, John 14:6, just to cite two examples). Once again, you have to stretch lots of scripture and dismiss a large portion of the Gospel and the teachings of the Apostles to get there, and yet some three billion Christians today venerate, or outright worship the Mother of Christ in one form or another.

Then of course there is the most recent "ecumenical" movement which began in 1910. Ecumenism not only embraces the fringe and cult elements of the religion, which bear no resemblance whatsoever to mainstream, conservative Christian theology, (and which must go unnamed in this post because of the popularity of ecumenism), it also recognizes Buddhism and Islam, as well as a whole host of primitive pre-Christian pagan religions, as being spiritually equal to Christianity.

In other words, Ecumenism (a movement promoting unity among all religion), is the "Big Tent", or "I'm o.k, you're o.k, as far as it goes, because you believe in some kind of supreme deity, god) religion. As the Arabs put it, "the problem is once you let a camel stick his nose under the tent, it's just a matter of time before the whole stinking beast gets inside". Does this kind of inclusive theology technically qualify as Christian though ?!, or does it represent something dark. The Big question is;

How many people today who claim to be Christians, actually are Christians who believe and follow sound doctrine ???

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

So many in fact, I find it astonishing the Pre-Trib doctrine is as popular as it appears to be with so many Christians.

The reason why it's popular is it gives "christians" a false sense that they will have a second chance to get right with God... the same camp that believe we will be sinning till Christ comes.