THE thread for discussing the future of the S-F - P/C & WoF forums.

[probinson]

Be that as it may, I have now reviewed the discussions regarding this over the past week and I am convinced there was no punitive intent in imposing the moratorium. Rather, the intent is to find a way to resolve an ongoing dispute; a dispute that is to some extent embedded in the longstanding policies of the site.

While I would agree with you that I do not believe there was any punitive intent, that is exactly what has happened. I believe that the moratorium was very short-sighted.

As a WoF believer, by stating that no discussion of WoF will occur, the administrative staff has effectively told me with this moratorium that my beliefs, no matter how calmly stated, are not welcome here.

Imagine the outcry if a moratorium on all things Catholic was to be imposed at the General Theology forum. This is how WoF people are viewing the moratorium. Suddenly, I have been told that a forum which I have posted in and frequented for nearly 3 years no longer welcomes posts about what I believe.

Whether the intent was punitive, that has been the result. People who have done absolutely nothing wrong are being punished by this action.

 

[CaDan]

30 days???? Are you kidding me????



Is there anyway to get this silly rule overturned????

Help! Where can we go to free ourselves of this oppression!?


Or should I just quit now since the next month is gonna be like a nuclear winter with all the reports that come flowing in with a silly vague rule we're somehow supposed to enforce....?

If we can work something out that gets the sniping under control and makes the forum moderatable, I would agitate for eliminating the moratorium.

I'm good at agitating.

 

[NewSong]

<SNIP>
In this forum, we have the problem that various members of the same Congregation are treating each other as if they were members of different Congregations. We know--roughly--how much trash-talking we allow between different Congregational forums. We don't know how much trash-talking we allow inside a specific Congregational forum. This lack of understanding makes moderation difficult and inconsistent.

Yes, that does happen or treating each other as though the other one is not a Christian or needs deliverance! I still believe it is the difference in doctrinal differences and because if one lets their guard down then it is feared that will be read concede to your way of believing.

 

[NewSong]

While I would agree with you that I do not believe there was any punitive intent, that is exactly what has happened. I believe that the moratorium was very short-sighted.

As a WoF believer, by stating that no discussion of WoF will occur, the administrative staff has effectively told me with this moratorium that my beliefs, no matter how calmly stated, are not welcome here.

Imagine the outcry if a moratorium on all things Catholic was to be imposed at the General Theology forum. This is how WoF people are viewing the moratorium. Suddenly, I have been told that a forum which I have posted in and frequented for nearly 3 years no longer welcomes posts about what I believe.

Whether the intent was punitive, that has been the result. People who have done absolutely nothing wrong are being punished by this action.

Wow, I didn't perceive it that way. I perceived it as your ideas, thoughts, and beliefs were the only ones protected and that the rest of us were beating on the WOFers. I thought it was said that you all needed a rest from us. That is the way I understood it.

 

[CaDan]

While I would agree with you that I do not believe there was any punitive intent, that is exactly what has happened. I believe that the moratorium was very short-sighted.

As a WoF believer, by stating that no discussion of WoF will occur, the administrative staff has effectively told me with this moratorium that my beliefs, no matter how calmly stated, are not welcome here.

Imagine the outcry if a moratorium on all things Catholic was to be imposed at the General Theology forum. This is how WoF people are viewing the moratorium. Suddenly, I have been told that a forum which I have posted in and frequented for nearly 3 years no longer welcomes posts about what I believe.

Whether the intent was punitive, that has been the result. People who have done absolutely nothing wrong are being punished by this action.

I think you may be misreading things a bit. The moratorium only applies to the main forum. The WoF subforum is still open for posts.

 

[flaglady]

That doesn't make it a good reason. That's my point. Maybe enforcing rules in place on troublesome threads is the answer. Because the real reason for silencing the topic, from what I'm hearing you say, is because the Admins didn't want to go through the threads. Now either (and this list is not all inclusive) (1) That's lazy, (2) They should have been doing that in the first place, (3) Opposition should be silenced, or some combination of those and/or others I might not have listed.

Admins don't go through threads - or reports for that matter, unless their opinion is invited by the mods. They act on feedback from the mods. In this case, it seems to have been somewhat misinterpreted, IMHO.

But if I can try to explain, imagine you have dealt with the fourth or fifth report from a member. He/she has skirted the rules in previous ones. Now you have given about as much grace as you can and it is obvious he/she is not getting the message (or more likely he/she does but thinks it doesn't or shouldn't apply to him/her). So they go right on as before, targeting their 'prey'. Now the mods have called a halt to trying to appeal to their better nature and start taking sterner action. It's then these people start posting threads complaining about biased mods, unthinking mods and mods who have no idea what they are doing. Nice!

Few members have any idea what grace has been shown to the members behind the scenes nor do they have any idea what it is like to get back horrid pms flaming them for doing their job.

The moratorium is silly. I've been giving reasons on this thread. I can give more if someone is on the fence with this.

The moratorium is a fact. Like it or not!

 

[probinson]

I think you may be misreading things a bit. The moratorium only applies to the main forum. The WoF subforum is still open for posts.

Understood. But that's not the point.

While I love my WoF brothers and sisters, my preferred method of posting in this MAIN SF/PC forum is debate. I have had many calm, civil, rational debates. I'm a firm believer that iron sharpens iron. It's when people use that "iron" as a club to beat you that the problems begin.

For almost 3 years, I have posted, without a single warning or infraction, in this main SF/PC forum about my beliefs. This moratorium removes that right. I can no longer converse with those whom I respect if they have a differing belief from me. Sure, they can post in the non-WoF forum and I can post in the WoF forum, but what if I want to discuss something with Jas, or he wants to discuss something with me? The moratorium has removed that right from both of us, even though neither of us has done anything wrong.

 

[ARBITER01]

If we can work something out that gets the sniping under control and makes the forum moderatable, I would agitate for eliminating the moratorium.

I'm good at agitating.

I'm a little more interested in actually fixing the problem here for the most part, although I like agitating also.

I already posted the biggest problem that was seen here for everyone, if that one is fixed correctly, then a majority of the forum issues will subside immediately.

 

[probinson]

Wow, I didn't perceive it that way. I perceived it as your ideas, thoughts, and beliefs were the only ones protected and that the rest of us were beating on the WOFers. I thought it was said that you all needed a rest from us. That is the way I understood it.

Right. That's how it was presented.

However, the moratorium stated that no discussion, neither for nor against WoF, would be permitted. This means that I am no longer welcome to post my beliefs in the SF/PC main forum, at least for the duration of the moratorium.

 

[probinson]

I already posted the biggest problem that was seen here for everyone, if that one is fixed correctly, then a majority of the forum issues will subside immediately.

But see, your "fix" to the "problem" you've presented is to dictate to WoF people what is contained in their statement of belief.

That's not a fix at all.

 

[ARBITER01]

But see, your "fix" to the "problem" you've presented is to dictate to WoF people what is contained in their statement of belief.

That's not a fix at all.

I don't really care, it's the problem that has been causing all the ruckus for the last couple of months.

As long as the admins can take a look at this and hopefully see the issue involved for quite a few folks here, then maybe something can be done and the forum can get back to being a forum again.

 

[CaDan]

Understood. But that's not the point.

While I love my WoF brothers and sisters, my preferred method of posting in this MAIN SF/PC forum is debate. I have had many calm, civil, rational debates. I'm a firm believer that iron sharpens iron. It's when people use that "iron" as a club to beat you that the problems begin.

For almost 3 years, I have posted, without a single warning or infraction, in this main SF/PC forum about my beliefs. This moratorium removes that right. I can no longer converse with those whom I respect if they have a differing belief from me. Sure, they can post in the non-WoF forum and I can post in the WoF forum, but what if I want to discuss something with Jas, or he wants to discuss something with me? The moratorium has removed that right from both of us, even though neither of us has done anything wrong.

I understand. I also agree that this moratorium is a sub-optimal solution. I also agree that having the admins spring this on the moderators was bad implementation.

My goal here is to get a set of policies that the regular posters in the forum can live with and the moderators can moderate as quickly as possible. I would prefer this be done over the course of days rather than weeks.

Get that done and I will get this moratorium lifted. I'm good at agitating.

 

[nephilimiyr]

No discussion of anything WoF, for or against, essentially means that I can not discuss my beliefs. FOR A MONTH! Why? What did I do to deserve this sentence? Nothing.

Pete, you know very well that that isn't true at all. You still have the WOF forum to discuss your WOF beliefs, no one has taken that away from you. Boy, drop the moderator tag from your name and you sound like your fitting in quite well with the others.

That is why the moratorium fails on so many levels. It does not address the problem. It does NOTHING but create a faux "peace" for 30 days. And yet, if the problem posters aren't dealt with, on day 31, we'll be right back where we started.

This I agree with 100% and is the reason why I am through with this forum. As I said before, there is no hope for this forum. You guys can sit here and talk about ways how to fix things but so far not too many people are even addressing the root of the problem. Some here are even denying that there is a problem!

I can understand why you are upset that the Admins emplimented this moratorium, because they never consulted you or anyone else in this forum. I agree, I would be upset also, but from my stand point, I said at least something is being done because from where I was sitting, I didn't see the moderator staff doing anything towards stopping what was going on. I saw you getting more and more frustrated and none of those guys were listening to you yet it just kept going on, and on, and on, etc.,etc.

You can argue that if you want, as I said before though, the moratorium was too little, too late, I am done here. The only reason why I am back tonight is because a few people had pmed me with links to other message board forums and I was having problems registering on one and needed to get back with the fella.

You are one of only a few people in this forum that I have remained friends with throughout. God bless you and thank you for being a friend
I will be back to pm you about things, otherwise I'll keep you in my prayers...

 

[flaglady]

Another instance of SF being totally misunderstood.

See, this isn't ONE congregation by any means. It is a disparate group of people from all denominations who consider themselves Spirit-Filled. This does not mean they have forsaken their root denomination at all, simply they are coming here to meet with like-minded people.

And therein lies the problem as we cannot declare ourselves an congregation, not noway.

 

[probinson]

I don't really care, it's the problem that has been causing all the ruckus for the last couple of months.

Well, naturally you don't really care. It doesn't affect you. I suspect you would think differently if someone suddenly started dictating to you what you believed...

What has been causing the ruckus has NOTHING, repeat, NOTHING to do with the WoF statement of belief. It has everything to do with the fact that some people think it is their God-given right and duty to disparage anything they personally disagree with.

 

[CaDan]

I'm a little more interested in actually fixing the problem here for the most part, although I like agitating also.

I already posted the biggest problem that was seen here for everyone, if that one is fixed correctly, then a majority of the forum issues will subside immediately.

Except as a vehicle for taking potshots at WoF believers, is there anyone who really cares about Christology here? I don't think so. I'm the one who took the survey that determined this forum was 37% Nestorian once upon a time.

 

[NewSong]

Right. That's how it was presented.

However, the moratorium stated that no discussion, neither for nor against WoF, would be permitted. This means that I am no longer welcome to post my beliefs in the SF/PC main forum, at least for the duration of the moratorium.

So then, if that was the way it meant, then it was targeted at us the non-wofers who don't have a clue why. I mean I hear the stuff being said, but I am not sure where it all went wrong. I am not sure that now it is relevant at this moment either. So, then not only are the WOF punished but then so are the non-WoFers punished too for something that someone else was doing. Then this goes back to how does it get fixed? I am totally confused now. I agree with you though, I hate to see the main forum removed from debate and discussion. This is what attracted me to the forums and this is what keeps me coming back.

 

[probinson]

Pete, you know very well that that isn't true at all. You still have the WOF forum to discuss your WOF beliefs, no one has taken that away from you. Boy, drop the moderator tag from your name and you sound like your fitting in quite well with the others.

neph, I know that. But there is no denying the fact that the moratorium removes the right that I had just a little over 24 hours ago to discuss my beliefs in the SF/PC main forum. For future reference, I am speaking of the SF/PC main forum in my posts regarding this topic.

This I agree with 100% and is the reason why I am through with this forum. As I said before, there is no hope for this forum. You guys can sit here and talk about ways how to fix things but so far not too many people are even addressing the root of the problem. Some here are even denying that there is a problem!

I can understand why you are upset that the Admins emplimented this moratorium, because they never consulted you or anyone else in this forum. I agree, I would be upset also, but from my stand point, I said at least something is being done because from where I was sitting, I didn't see the moderator staff doing anything towards stopping what was going on. I saw you getting more and more frustrated and none of those guys were listening to you yet it just kept going on, and on, and on, etc.,etc.

You can argue that if you want, as I said before though, the moratorium was too little, too late, I am done here. The only reason why I am back tonight is because a few people had pmed me with links to other message board forums and I was having problems registering on one and needed to get back with the fella.

You are one of only a few people in this forum that I have remained friends with throughout. God bless you and thank you for being a friend
I will be back to pm you about things, otherwise I'll keep you in my prayers...

Thank you neph. I will do the same.

 

[ARBITER01]

Except as a vehicle for taking potshots at WoF believers, is there anyone who really cares about Christology here? I don't think so. I'm the one who took the survey that determined this forum was 37% Nestorian once upon a time.

Well,... I have no objections to doing away with the general section if that be the answer also.

Like I said, I'm interested in actual problems being solved instead of just bandaids.

 

[probinson]

So, then not only are the WOF punished but then so are the non-WoFers punished too for something that someone else was doing.

Precisely. And this is why I have such a problem with this action.