The seven feasts of Israel

[Choose Wisely]

The 144,000 are Jews that are sealed from the 12,000 tribes of Israel during the tribulation . They are a separate harvest and have nothing to do with the harvest of the church. They will be sealed with the Holy Spirit as a witness to the people on earth during the tribulation .

The church is taken up to heaven in rev 4( caught up) and not mentioned again until the end of revelation . Therefore, we must keep the 2 groups of people separate . I do believe that a person should not make Israel the church and the church Israel. This is called replacement theory . Scripture does not support it.

Of course.........I agree.

However, now you have to do the Zeke thing because of the Jews comment. Paul classifies the 12 tribes as Jews......but you are not allowed to do that, unless you want to do the Zeke thing.

You can't say "do you want a Coke", unless you specifically mean Coca Cola, around Zeke..........even though most of the world does. You must be specific and name the brand and type of drink or say soda or pop if you want to talks about soft drinks.

So if you haven't done the Zeke thing with Jews and Judah, I guess you can go ahead and do that. It gives him an opportunity to feel like he is right.

 

[Choose Wisely]

bibletruth469;62911790]

I believe the elect is Israel after the Church age is completed . Gods eyes will turn back to the nation of Israel. Daniels 69th week starts(another discussion )

I also believe this.

Question for choose wisely- what's the time frame for the rapture of 1 cort 15. I am starting to believe that thes 4 and that one are 2 different events. I do know timing of 1st one( trump of God) and the other one (last trump) . There is a difference .

Yes, there is a difference. The trump of God is the voice of God (Exodus 19, Rev 1, Rev 4) The last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. The timing of 1 Cor 15 would be just prior to Gods wrath. At this coming all eyes will see the coming of the Lord.

 

[bibletruth469]

bibletruth469;62911790]
I also believe this.

Yes, there is a difference. The trump of God is the voice of God (Exodus 19, Rev 1, Rev 4) The last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. The timing of 1 Cor 15 would be just prior to Gods wrath. At this coming all eyes will see the coming of the Lord.

Are you saying that thus happens at mid trib or at the end of the 7 years. I do agree with you about the 2 different trumpets and how they relate , the 1st one thes 4 relates to exodus and the giving if the law. I'm just having trouble with the 2nd one, cor 15(the mystery rapture ) also, when every eye will see Him in mat 24 , that happens at the end if the trib. In your opinion , is that the last trump also ?

 

[zeke37]

Of course.........I agree.

However, now you have to do the Zeke thing because of the Jews comment. Paul classifies the 12 tribes as Jews......but you are not allowed to do that, unless you want to do the Zeke thing.

You can't say "do you want a Coke", unless you specifically mean Coca Cola, around Zeke..........even though most of the world does. You must be specific and name the brand and type of drink or say soda or pop if you want to talks about soft drinks.

So if you haven't done the Zeke thing with Jews and Judah, I guess you can go ahead and do that. It gives him an opportunity to feel like he is right.

over the years, you and I just have not gotten along.
I don't think it would matter if I had a truth that you did not know.
you'd never accept it anyway.

recently, I tried to play nice with you,
but it did not take you long for u to go back to your normal ways
of belittling and putting down folks

so I really have no desire to communicate with you directly anymore.
i'll end up sinning in retaliation

 

[zeke37]

but for anyone else that is interested....
here goes

some do not understand that Israel was divided in David's time
into two kingdoms/houses/sticks

10 northern tribes (kept the name Israel) and southern 2 tribes (took the name Judah)

and that both parts were eventually taken captive and scattered,
by first the Assyrian, taking captive and scattering the northern 10 tribes called Israel
(it is thought that some small sections/families of the northern tribes remained,
prob off the main trade root)

now, these people who were taken captive and scattered,
actually became nations/tongues etc.

God is not done with them,
and it is my belief, along with many millions of others,
that these scattered northern tribes became the Christian nations of today

God was certainly not done with them, nor their lineages
possibly many of our ancestors are from that lineage

so that was the 10 northern tribes fate...
but God says all kinds of good things about those ten tribes in end time prophesy,
that can only be fulfilled in Christianity....

so God will keep all His promises to all His House
even if that house runs through the church.




anyway, then a few centuries after the northern tribes were taken captive and scattered
the southern 2 tribes were likewise taken captive
and the temple destroyed
and many of them were likewise scattered, by the Babylonian

but some like Daniel were taken captive,
and eventually released to rebuild the 2nd temple

when they (house of Judah/southern tribes) came back and settled the area,
they referred to everyone that lived there as Jews
because 90% of anyone that lived there was from Judah originally.
Benjamin stuck with Judah as part of their house,
and therefor took the name Jew as well.

but certainly not by tribal identity, rather by house/stick

Levite's had cities in both houses, not lands like the tribes
even the Levites who's cities were in Judah or Benjamin, were called Jews/house of Judah

and since there was no northern house/kingdom anymore,
even the scant few stragglers from the northern tribes,
who avoided being taken captive/scattered, were called jews

I can provide anyone interested, info on that via links online
to folks that can explain it better than i.

 

[zeke37]

Are you saying that thus happens at mid trib or at the end of the 7 years. I do agree with you about the 2 different trumpets and how they relate , the 1st one thes 4 relates to exodus and the giving if the law. I'm just having trouble with the 2nd one, cor 15(the mystery rapture ) also, when every eye will see Him in mat 24 , that happens at the end if the trib. In your opinion , is that the last trump also ?

it's the same trumpet in both, because the dead are raised.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:



52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
​

the "change" is the rapture...

do we see a trump and mentioning of something special happening to the dead,
anywhere else in scripture?

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
​

 

[bibletruth469]

it's the same trumpet in both, because the dead are raised.
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:



52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
the "change" is the rapture...

do we see a trump and mentioning of something special happening to the dead,
anywhere else in scripture?
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Both raptures do mention the dead ; however if you look at each one very carefully , the dead in Christ are used differently . For example, in thes it says the dead will be raised 1 st. In Cor, it says the dead will be raised incorruptible . To me, it reads that there is a differences between the 2 events.

 

[bibletruth469]

it's the same trumpet in both, because the dead are raised.
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:



52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
the "change" is the rapture...

do we see a trump and mentioning of something special happening to the dead,
anywhere else in scripture?
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The quote you gave in rev is speaking about judgement , not the rapture . The church in my opinion will not go through the trib period, therefore, this is a totally different event. I know that we differ on our views and we can agree to disagree .

 

[zeke37]

Both raptures do mention the dead ;

what do u mean BOTH raptures?
there's only one.

however if you look at each one very carefully , the dead in Christ are used differently . For example, in thes it says the dead will be raised 1 st. In Cor, it says the dead will be raised incorruptible . To me, it reads that there is a differences between the 2 events.

see the order again...
the dead rise first in both, and then we are changed to spirit/air

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
​

same with the 7th trump in Rev

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
​

 

[zeke37]

The quote you gave in rev is speaking about judgement , not the rapture .

judgement happen at the last day,
which is when the resurrection and rapture happens

The church in my opinion will not go through the trib period, therefore, this is a totally different event. I know that we differ on our views and we can agree to disagree .

we go through it all.
either individually faithful or individually apostate

Jesus taught about when He raises all those that the Father gave Him,
as being at the last day. John 6 and 11.

I don't know how u get around that one....
1Thes4 and 1Cor5 outright tell us of this event...
so we know it is the last day

 

[bibletruth469]

what do u mean BOTH raptures?
there's only one.

see the order again...
the dead rise first in both, and then we are changed to spirit/air
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
same with the 7th trump in Rev
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

These 2 scripture passages could be for two different events (rapture, caught up) or 1 event. I do not want to be dogmatic about this. It is only speculation . I did think it was interesting that both passages do look like 2 different events to me when you take it 'word for word'. Example: trumpets seem different, one is the trump of God and one is the last trumpet. The dead are spoken of in different ways: in one 'dead are raised 1st,and the other one eludes to the dead being raised incorruptible . One speaks of a mystery, one does not. It's just speculation , but what if the thes 4 falls on Pentecost and the cor 15 falls on feast of trumpets ? Of course we can not know which year. It's just something to study and pray for Gods wisdom.

 

[bibletruth469]

what do u mean BOTH raptures?
there's only one.

see the order again...
the dead rise first in both, and then we are changed to spirit/air
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
same with the 7th trump in Rev
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

In revelation , I believe that these trumpet judgements are very different then the harvest trumpets( the ones that occur on a feast day ) these trumpets are all judgements for the wicked. Notice that the 24 elders are already in heaven( I believe this a reference to the church)

 

[Choose Wisely]

zeke37;62920225]

over the years, you and I just have not gotten along.

That's because we interpret scripture differently. I let scripture interpret itself. It says what it says. If it doesn't fit, I won't make it fit. You give yourself a free hand to change the meaning of words and make scripture say what you want it to say. Prove to me there is no pre trib.....without changing scripture. I have never seen anyone do it.

I don't think it would matter if I had a truth that you did not know.
you'd never accept it anyway.

You couldn't be more wrong. I am interested in the truth, I am not interested in religion. If you could show me any truth without changing scripture, there is probably no one here that would be more interested.

recently, I tried to play nice with you,
but it did not take you long for u to go back to your normal ways
of belittling and putting down folks

Sorry, but if you want to teach that the church is still on earth because you think they are candlesticks......that's fine. But I'm going to post the rest of the verses that show the candlesticks are prophets. I certainly can't see the church with fire coming out of their mouths and lying in the streets of Jerusalem for a few days.

so I really have no desire to communicate with you directly anymore.
i'll end up sinning in retaliation

The real problem is that you really have no answers. I let scripture say exactly what it says. 12000 from each tribe.....means 12000 from each tribe, etc etc etc etc. You really can't argue with truth. If you happen to find any truths without changing scripture, I would be very interested.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

You never know...

 

[zeke37]

zeke37;62920225]
That's because we interpret scripture differently.

obviously

I let scripture interpret itself. It says what it says. If it doesn't fit, I won't make it fit.

you do every time u teach a pre trib rapture
(and the other raptures u've worked in)

You give yourself a free hand to change the meaning of words and make scripture say what you want it to say.

baloney. I know the rules.
I could say the same about you
it's on U to prove the rapture is pre trib,
or mid or pre wrath or whatever...
u have too many raptures...how many?

and there ya go again, thinking your all superior and putting others down

Prove to me there is no pre trib.....without changing scripture. I have never seen anyone do it.

I've proven it many times.
you just don't accept it

u have to change scripture to believe/teach in pre trib

You couldn't be more wrong. I am interested in the truth, I am not interested in religion. If you could show me any truth without changing scripture, there is probably no one here that would be more interested.

I don't believe you

Sorry, but if you want to teach that the church is still on earth because you think they are candlesticks......that's fine.

good...that's what God said
candlesticks mean churches. Rev1

the candlesticks picture the Minorah
there are 7 candlesticks, being fed the oil from 2 olive trees/branches

the candlesticks are the churches
the olive trees are what feed them oil
in Zec4 they are two individuals

But I'm going to post the rest of the verses that show the candlesticks are prophets.

no they are not. olive trees are. see Zec4

I certainly can't see the church with fire coming out of their mouths and lying in the streets of Jerusalem for a few days.

I never said they would.

Rev11 says olive trees and candlesticks both.
and then it says the 2 prophets are killed

The real problem is that you really have no answers.

I have plenty...you might not accept them, but so be it

I let scripture say exactly what it says.

na, you interpret it to mean what you want it to mean

if u were not indoctrinated,
then u would see that there is only one rapture
and it is at the last day,
after the dead in Christ are brought from heaven,
by Christ when He comes at His Coming
and raised here on earth

12000 from each tribe.....means 12000 from each tribe, etc etc etc etc.

sure does...however, it does not mean 144k jews.
u don't have license to change that, nor to shove all 12 tribes into Judah

just why do u think 12 tribes (that's the northern 10 tribes Israel and the 2 tribes of Judah) are mentioned?

You really can't argue with truth.

i agree...u'r version of eschatology makes no sense

If you happen to find any truths without changing scripture, I would be very interested.

I don't change scripture
interpretation is one thing.
understanding synonyms is another

 

[bibletruth469]

After searching the scriptures, I believe that Gods elect people are everyone who is one of His, not just the Jewish people . Look at Matt24-22,24-31,mark13:22,col 3:12

The Fall feasts of The Lord are yet to be fulfilled. They are listed below:

Trumpets- return of Christ ( every eye shall see him, Matt 24) it's a call to assembly. Blowing of the trumpet .

Days of atonement- Christ returns to the holy of holies and sets up His temple at the end of the tribulation , look at the chapter Hebrews 9

Feast of tabernacles - Christ sets up His milliniem kingdom, Isaiah 33:20 - I believe during that time ,we will adore Him with crowns .

In my opinion , Pentecost ( rapture) is the next event on Gods prophetic calendar . I thes 4

The feasts of The Lord are a shadow and a picture of things to come. Col 2:16-17

This is one interpretation of the fall feasts. Dr jimmy DeYoung ,on prophecy today 's website , has his interpretation listed above. If you pull thus up on you tube, he thinks there is a sequence of events that happen in order. Pentecost is in my opinion the next event on Gods prophetic calendar .

All 7 of these feasts have historical , agricultural and a prophetic meaning.

 

[visionary]

Zola Levitt discovered an amazing correlation between the Seven Feasts of the Lord and the gestation of a human baby, from conception to birth.

“On the fourteenth day of the first month, the egg appears.” This is the date of Passover

“The egg must be fertilized within 24 hours, or it will pass on.” This is the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which happens on the day after Passover.

“Within two to six days, the fertilized egg attaches itself to the wall of the womb and begins to grow.”The Feast of First fruits is observed anywhere from two to six days after Passover! The seed or grain that ”falls into the ground and dies,” produces a harvest, the first fruits of which are presented to God.

"At 50 days, the embryo shows arms, hands, fingers, legs, feet, toes, a head, eyes, etc. Around the fiftieth day, the embryo takes on the form of a human being." That is Pentecost! That is the day the Israelites confirmed their covenant as the people of God. So with us, we are not complete in Christ, until we receive His Holy Spirit.

The embryo at seven months: On the first day of the seventh month, the baby’s hearing is developed. For the first time, it can hear and distinguish sounds outside the womb.That is the date for the Jewish Festival of Trumpets.

“On the tenth day of the seventh month, the hemoglobin of the blood changes from that of the mother, to a self-sustaining baby.”That’s the Day of Atonement, when the blood was taken into the Holy of Holies!

“On the fifteenth day of the seventh month, the lungs become fully developed. If born before then, the baby would have had very difficult time breathing."That’s the festival of Tabernacles, a time of celebrating the Temple, home of the Shekinah glory or Spirit of God.” In the New Testament, the Greek term pneuma, normally translated as “breath,” is applied to the “Holy Spirit.

Birth takes place on the tenth day of the ninth month. Eight days after birth, in Jewish families, a son is circumcised.The eight days of Hanukkah are celebrated, nine months and ten days after Passover.

There is a remarkable correlation between gestation period and the Seven Feasts of the Lord, as was given to Moses by the Lord Himself. Nothing designed by our Creator is an accident. Everything fits into a design or pattern.

 

[zeke37]

besides the firstfruits part...
the rest was quite interesting.

firstfruits being exactly 3 days/nights after Passover,
not a random 2-6 days

 

[intojoy]

@bibletruth

All believers Jew and Gentile are God's elect however in Scripture there are two types of elections. First and most importantly is election in the spiritual realm which is where individuals have been elected to salvation by grace thru faith in the God of Israel, in Jesus the Messiah. Secondly and also important is election in the material realm, the election of the national calling for the purpose of giving God's Word (the Covenants). Thus far there has been only one national election - the state of Israel.
While it is true that all believers are part of God's elect, only Jewish believers can claim to be part of His nationally elected Israel. "Not everyone is a Jew who is one outwardly" is pointing out that the believing Jews are the true Israel. It's important not to ascribe "spiritual jewishood" to myself because although I am a child of God, elect and His in the spiritual realm, the Jewish covenants are still in effect. God is still involved in the national election of Israel. As a matter of fact Jesus will not return until the leaders of the nation of Israel ask Him to.

 

[Mazock]

besides the firstfruits part...
the rest was quite interesting.

firstfruits being exactly 3 days/nights after Passover,
not a random 2-6 days

Hogwash!

Where does it say that in Lev 23?