The saved are eternally secure

[Hentenza]

Btw, you do realize that those who come to Christ are to put away their "LAWLESS deeds", don't you?

Have you? Are you proposing sinless perfection?

You know, like Jesus taught here:

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." - Matthew 7:13-27

Yes, false prophets do not produce good fruit. However, those with saving faith produce good fruit naturally.

Matt. 13
23 And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”

So I will, again, posit to you that ALL Christians with saving faith produce fruit FROM salvation not FOR salvation.

Yes, according to Jesus Christ, those who "work iniquity" or those who "practice LAWLESSNESS" (see, I can capitalize, too) will be told to "depart" on the day of judgment. Again, according to Jesus Christ, a good tree cannot produce corrupt fruit, so your "LAWLESS deeds" had better come to an end before it is too late.

So who is the man whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, whose sins have been covered, and whose sins the Lord will not take into account?

 

[Lion King]

Ok, when is free will exercised? If God is the first cause and if God is perfect in every respect including knowledge, then God cannot be contingent on your "free will," otherwise He would be contingent on you to finish His knowledge. Is God contingent on you? Does He not know, since before the foundation of the world, that you would or would not accept Him?

Secondly, your argument here is problematic. In your interpretation God desires that all men be saved but it does not happen and God desires that Christians should not commit fornication but, again, it does not happen. Is God powerless to fulfill His desires?

Fulfilling His desires would mean infringing on our own will. God would never do that. We are not God's robots, each and everyone of us is free to make their own choices in life. God did not make the angels rebel, nor did He make Adam eat the fruit from the forbidden tree.

 

[Hentenza]

Fulfilling His desires would mean infringing on our own will. God would never do that. We are not God's robots, each and everyone of us is free to make their own choices in life. God did not make the angels rebel, nor did He make Adam eat the fruit from the forbidden tree.

Does God know all actions including free actions from before the foundation of the world?

 

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

Btw, you do realize that those who come to Christ are to put away their "LAWLESS deeds", don't you? You know, like Jesus taught here:

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." - Matthew 7:13-27

Yes, according to Jesus Christ, those who "work iniquity" or those who "practice LAWLESSNESS" (see, I can capitalize, too) will be told to "depart" on the day of judgment. Again, according to Jesus Christ, a good tree cannot produce corrupt fruit, so your "LAWLESS deeds" had better come to an end before it is too late.

Here is what Jesus Christ said. So it is absolutely sure that all who believe in Jesus Christ the Lord have everlasting life.

John 3:14-18
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Here is the key to the passage.

Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Notice in verse 21 it says, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.” It does not say, “Not everyone who believes on me.” So the verse does not refute what I said.

Now look at verse 22. When these people hear this terrible news, they immediately list WORKS that they had done that should have given them merit. Notice they do not say, “Lord have we not believed on you.” So the passage does not refute what I said.

Also note that they were never saved as shown in verse 23 "I never knew you."

Now the reason they are rejected is, because they trust in their own works, their faith does not count.

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Now in verse Matthew 7:21, Jesus Christ mentions “he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Jesus Christ tells us exactly the will of the Father in heaven in the following passage. Notice the will of the Father is to just believe on Jesus Christ as I have been saying. The people in the verse you quoted did not do this since their faith did not count because they trusted in their own works.

John 6:39-40
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Finally in verse Matthew 7:23, Jesus says “ye that work iniquity.” The reason is simple. The following passage shows that the only work of God for salvation is to believe on Jesus Christ. Any other work for salvation is evil. Also since their faith does not count, none of their sins are forgiven.

John 6:28-29
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

The passage does not refute that all who believe in Jesus Christ are saved. It refutes salvation by works.

 

[bornofGod888]

Here is what Jesus Christ said. So it is absolutely sure that all who believe in Jesus Christ the Lord have everlasting life.

John 3:14-18
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Here is the key to the passage.

Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Notice in verse 21 it says, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.” It does not say, “Not everyone who believes on me.” So the verse does not refute what I said.

Now look at verse 22. When these people hear this terrible news, they immediately list WORKS that they had done that should have given them merit. Notice they do not say, “Lord have we not believed on you.” So the passage does not refute what I said.

Also note that they were never saved as shown in verse 23 "I never knew you."

Now the reason they are rejected is, because they trust in their own works, their faith does not count.

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Now in verse Matthew 7:21, Jesus Christ mentions “he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Jesus Christ tells us exactly the will of the Father in heaven in the following passage. Notice the will of the Father is to just believe on Jesus Christ as I have been saying. The people in the verse you quoted did not do this since their faith did not count because they trusted in their own works.

John 6:39-40
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Finally in verse Matthew 7:23, Jesus says “ye that work iniquity.” The reason is simple. The following passage shows that the only work of God for salvation is to believe on Jesus Christ. Any other work for salvation is evil. Also since their faith does not count, none of their sins are forgiven.

John 6:28-29
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

The passage does not refute that all who believe in Jesus Christ are saved. It refutes salvation by works.

Once more, you have no idea whatsoever as to what you're talking about. Christ is the author of eternal salvation unto all those who obey Him (Hebrews 5:9), whether you like it or not.

 

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

Once more, you have no idea whatsoever as to what you're talking about. Christ is the author of eternal salvation unto all those who obey Him (Hebrews 5:9), whether you like it or not.

Paul defined obeying the gospel of salvation as believing the gospel.

Romans 10:16-17
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The report of Isaiah is Isaiah 53 which is the report of how Jesus Christ would die for our sins, be buried and rise from the dead. That report is clearly declared by Paul in the following passage.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[Hentenza]

Once more, you have no idea whatsoever as to what you're talking about. Christ is the author of eternal salvation unto all those who obey Him (Hebrews 5:9), whether you like it or not.

Instead of refuting her post, once again you have attacked the poster instead of addressing the content of the post.

Tell me, why does Paul state in Romans 8:1 that: "8 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" right after he states that:


14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold [m]into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
21 I find then the [n]principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God [o]in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in [p]the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner [q]of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from [r]the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

How can Paul serve both the law of God AND the law of sin?

 

[bornofGod888]

Instead of refuting her post, once again you have attacked the poster instead of addressing the content of the post.

Tell me, why does Paul state in Romans 8:1 that: "8 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" right after he states that:


14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold [m]into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
21 I find then the [n]principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God [o]in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in [p]the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner [q]of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from [r]the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

How can Paul serve both the law of God AND the law of sin?

You know what? I only read the first line of your post and that's enough for me. I'm reporting your post to see if Administrators here just get Carte Blanch for lying. I've "attacked" no one.

 

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

Instead of refuting her post, once again you have attacked the poster instead of addressing the content of the post.

Tell me, why does Paul state in Romans 8:1 that: "8 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" right after he states that:


14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold [m]into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
21 I find then the [n]principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God [o]in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in [p]the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner [q]of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from [r]the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

How can Paul serve both the law of God AND the law of sin?

Great insight.

BTW. You would not know by the name I chose, but I am a saved man.

 

[Hentenza]

Great insight.

BTW. You would not know by the name I chose, but I am a saved man.

Good grief. That is my bad since your male icon is displayed in your posts. Please forgive me.

 

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

Good grief. That is my bad since your male icon is displayed in your posts. Please forgive me.

As I said you would not know by my screen name.

May the Lord abundantly bless you brother.

 

[Lion King]

Does God know all actions including free actions from before the foundation of the world?

Most definitely.

 

[bornofGod888]

Great insight.

Great error, actually, and I'll prove as much later on this evening or tomorrow morning. Right now, I need to head out for a while.

 

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

Great error, actually, and I'll prove as much later on this evening or tomorrow morning. Right now, I need to head out for a while.

Jesus Christ also said the following. In verse 26, Jesus Christ said that they shall never die. Surely you believe God.

John 11:25-26
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[Hentenza]

Great error, actually, and I'll prove as much later on this evening or tomorrow morning. Right now, I need to head out for a while.

The great error is from those that boast about their works and consider themselves more powerful than God. As I said earlier, God is perfectly capable of finishing what He started in the heart of the believer. Is not about you but about what He has done FOR you.

 

[bornofGod888]

The great error is from those that boast about their works and consider themselves more powerful than God. As I said earlier, God is perfectly capable of finishing what He started in the heart of the believer. Is not about you but about what He has done FOR you.

Hey, thanks. I already reported one of your posts and I just returned momentarily to report another one of your posts and then I read this. Yeah, I'll report this one as well for it includes another lie of yours where you insist that I find myself to be more powerful than God. Out of curiosity, do you feel the least bit of remorse or conviction when you lie in such a manner? You should.

 

[rockytopva]

My feelings are that the Lambs Book of Life is express property of God the Father. He will do with it as he pleases....

31 And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. - Exodus 32:31-33

I believe that the churches unraveled in ages....

1. Ephesus – Apostolic – Leaving the first love… “All they which are in Asia be turned away from me…” – II Tim 1:15
2. Smyrna – Martyrs – Persecutions ten days… Foxes Book of Martyrs describes ten Roman persecutions.
3. Pergamos – Orthodox – A pyrgos is a fortified structure – Needed for the dark ages.
4. Thyatira – Catholic – The Spirit of Jezebel is to persecute, control, and to dominate. This spirit can invade any church!
5. Sardis – Protestant – A sardius is a gem, elegant yet hard and rigid. Doctrine in the head, little in the heart.
6. Philadelphia – Methodist – To obtain sanctification was to do so with love.
7. Laodicea – Charismatic – Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

The Calvin age was a Sardisean age, and as Soteriology was a big topic in this age so Christ Jesus addresses the issue...

4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. - Revelation 3:4-5

My personal feelings is that the OSAS doctrine is an excuse to be a cold, selfish person. I have seen this in its people. Since the individual feels he cannot loose his salvation he does not press his way into deeper experiences with the Lord Jesus Christ. I am glad that this doctrine is limited to a single church age... Not all believe this way.

But... I believe in eternal security! But only after Christ has been fully developed in a believers heart! In which Wesley would call total sanctification! I just know too many in my generation who have not parted ways with the foolishness of the flesh.

5. Sardis – Protestant – A sardius is a gem, elegant yet hard and rigid. Doctrine in the head, little in the heart.

It is the nature of those of the Sardisean church age to hold onto their doctrine with both hands. It is not a good idea to discourse with these people as you are not going to change their point of view. It would only take the Holy Spirit for them to change.

 

[rockytopva]

There is a Soteriology forum for all the John Calvin fanatics.

 

[Hentenza]

Hey, thanks. I already reported one of your posts and I just returned momentarily to report another one of your posts and then I read this. Yeah, I'll report this one as well for it includes another lie of yours where you insist that I find myself to be more powerful than God. Out of curiosity, do you feel the least bit of remorse or conviction when you lie in such a manner? You should.

I can back up every single word in my posts from your own words and I will leave it at that.

 

[Setyoufree]

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

People....Come on! How clear do you want it? Maybe you all should just keep ignoring Paul! Clearly born again believers can fall from grace. You can renounce Christ by hardening your heart against His Spirit.

Now, does that mean God will just give up on you? No!!! You have to harden your heart....It takes years, but it can be done. How? You nasty nature! How? It can convince you that you aren't that bad and therefore you really don't need Christ and His righteousness. That's the deceitfulness of sin.