The Sabbath was a ceremonial law,not a moral law.

[squint]

Straw man. You are attempting to hold on to Old Testament rituals that Christ did away with.

Uh, maybe in your eyes Jesus, the Word of God is merely a ritual? Hello.

I've found most often that Jesus, The Word is a REFLECTOR of what is in our own hearts. Reducing The Word, Jesus to someones, ANYONES very poor reflection is just not cool theology.

You might even see that even in the perpetual wrangling that goes on here and everywhere the Word is picked up what is REALLY happening is our REFLECTIONS are being openly revealed. Then we have this fascinating little ACT that says 'bow to my reflection.'

My nearly only hope in posting is to HELP provide legitimate reflections that enhance the direction of loving our neighbors and NOT condemning them on the basis of very very poor reflections.

I doubt it. But I'm sure every CF member is having a chuckle at your erroneous reasoning

You might very well think throwing away Gods Words is funny. What can I say? There isn't an RCC theologian that I'm aware of that's ever done that. You cool with making a presentation that your CHURCH doesn't? So be it. Live with your own reflection.

And certainly, certainly don't forget to beat every one else over the head with it.

enjoy!

squint

 

[TheCatholic]

Uh, maybe in your eyes Jesus, the Word of God is merely a ritual? Hello.

Did I say that? Try to stick with facts, and stop making up falsehoods.

 

[squint]

Did I say that? Try to stick with facts, and stop making up falsehoods.

What falsehood was that again? Which of my numerous faults would you like to beat me with today?

 

[Stryder06]

It isn't that simple. Do you think the church has the power to overturn God's law, or to amend it as they see fit? Can the church declare something as a sin, or deem something that is a sin to be sin no longer?

Still waiting for an answer to this question...

 

[TheCatholic]

It isn't that simple. Do you think the church has the power to overturn God's law, or to amend it as they see fit? Can the church declare something as a sin, or deem something that is a sin to be sin no longer?

Still waiting for an answer to this question...

Your question is based on the assumption that Saturday Sabbath observation is God's law for Christians. I don't agree with that premise.

We obey that commandment in a way that is consistant with Christ's fullfillment of the Law.

 

[Stryder06]

Your question is based on the assumption that Saturday Sabbath observation is God's law for Christians. I don't agree with that premise.

We obey that commandment in a way that is consistant with Christ's fullfillment of the Law.

Not at all. My question is based on the following comment that you made:

The part where Jesus gives his Church the authority to bind and loose. And so they did. End of discussion

And there still is now answer. Before Christ died keeping the sabbath was an obligation for those Christians that followed Him. After He died, you believe it was no longer an obligation. You state that change in the law did in fact come around.

So again, does the catholic church have the authority to declare something a sin, and say that something that was a sin is no longer a sin?

And secondly, you don't nor could you fulfill the law the way Christ did. That's the reason why Christ had to come. You obey the commandments in a way that is consistent with the traditions of man. If it was biblical you could give me scripture to support the change.

 

[CalmRon]

Your question is based on the assumption that Saturday Sabbath observation is God's law for Christians. I don't agree with that premise.

We obey that commandment in a way that is consistant with Christ's fullfillment of the Law.

Christ fulfilled the law in his righteousness so we are made perfect in God's sight because he was the perfect substitute.

his fulfillment of the law means that where we fail when keeping his law his sacrifice is sufficient to atone for it, because where we fail he passed.

the law that was nailed to the cross was the ceremonial law as distinct from the moral law or ten commandments; the ceremonial law was added because of transgression, since it deals directly with atonement for sin because no man can perfectly keep the moral law of God.

Sabbath observance is a part of God's moral law. It is moral because it has to do with proper worship of God. The ten commandment are as immutable as God's own character and as such we as humans (and not just israel) are required to obey them because cannot allow sin in his presence and sin is the transgression of the law (clearly the moral aspect of it) this then leads to the thought that if we are required to obey Go's holy law and yet we cannot God did for us in Christ what we could not do. he met the requirements for us but does this mean he abolished what was required of us? No what he requires of us still stands as a testament to our weakness in ourselves so that he will be Glorified in the end, they stand as guides to lead us in the right way to live.

I don't know exactly when Sunday observance came into prominence, but it sure wasn't in bible times. and the church was never handed authority to change and trample God's law either.

 

[TheCatholic]

I don't know exactly when Sunday observance came into prominence, but it sure wasn't in bible times. and the church was never handed authority to change and trample God's law either.

Here is the answer to that if you care to read it: From Sabbath to Sunday (This Rock: February 1999)

And here is some more information: Sabbath - Articles

 

[ThomasDa]

No one can KEEP something HOLY that God never made HOLY.
So try as you may you can't even begin to keep God's command to keep His Sabbath on the wrong day.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Here is the answer to that if you care to read it: From Sabbath to Sunday (This Rock: February 1999)

And here is some more information: Sabbath - Articles

I will put that on my list of must read articles......may be a year or 2 though before I can get to it

http://www.christianforums.com/t6982465/
Is Sunday worship the mark of the beast?

 

[TheCatholic]

No one can KEEP something HOLY that God never made HOLY.
So try as you may you can't even begin to keep God's command to keep His Sabbath on the wrong day.

Another on-liner with no evidence to support it.
Droll, verrrrrryyyyy droll

 

[bbbbbbb]

No one can KEEP something HOLY that God never made HOLY.
So try as you may you can't even begin to keep God's command to keep His Sabbath on the wrong day.

Well, I am relieved to know that I am not guilty of keeping something holy that God never made holy.

 

[visionary]

Remember to keep the Sabbath holy...

For in six days God created heaven and earth and all that is in it... HE BLESSED IT.. and sanctified it [set it apart for Holy purposes]

I wonder what was His purpose in doing that...

 

[TheCatholic]

Remember to keep the Sabbath holy...

For in six days God created heaven and earth and all that is in it... HE BLESSED IT.. and sanctified it [set it apart for Holy purposes]

I wonder what was His purpose in doing that...

Well, since the earth was created over millions of years - not six days - there is obviously a deeper meaning to the texts

 

[visionary]

So what do you think God's purpose was in creating a seventh day, setting it apart and sanctifying it.. for what HOLY purpose would there be in that??

 

[squint]

Well, since the earth was created over millions of years - not six days - there is obviously a deeper meaning to the texts

I say similar and get ridiculed by you for how many posts?

go figure...

 

[RND]

Well, since the earth was created over millions of years - not six days - there is obviously a deeper meaning to the texts

God said it was six literal days. Man says it was millions of years. Who do you believe?

 

[RND]

Ceremonial Law and Colossians 2:16

Read what “Albert Barnes Notes on the Bible” has to say on Colossians 2:16 in regards to sabbath days, “Colossians 2:16 - Or of the Sabbath days - Greek, “of the Sabbaths.” The word Sabbath in the Old Testament is applied not only to the seventh day, but to all the days of holy rest that were observed by the Hebrews, and particularly to the beginning and close of their great festivals. There is, doubtless, reference to those days in this place, since the word is used in the plural number, and the apostle does not refer particularly to the Sabbath properly so called. There is no evidence from this passage that he would teach that there was no obligation to observe any holy time, for there is not the slightest reason to believe that he meant to teach that one of the ten commandments had ceased to be binding on mankind. If he had used the word in the singular number - “the Sabbath,” it would then, of course, have been clear that he meant to teach that that commandment had ceased to be binding, and that a Sabbath was no longer to be observed. But the use of the term in the plural number, and the connection, show that he had his eye on the great number of days which were observed by the Hebrews as festivals, as a part of their ceremonial and typical law, and not to the moral law, or the Ten Commandments. No part of the moral law - no one of the ten commandments could be spoken of as “a shadow of good things to come.” These commandments are, from the nature of moral law, of perpetual and universal obligation.”

And this what Adam Clarke’s Commentary on the Bible has top say on Colossians 2:16, “Colossians 2:16 - Let no man - judge you in meat, or in drink - The apostle speaks here in reference to some particulars of the hand-writing of ordinances, which had been taken away, and the necessity of observing certain holydays or festivals, such as the new moons and particular sabbaths, or those which should be observed with more than ordinary solemnity; all these had been taken out of the way and nailed to the cross, and were no longer of moral obligation. There is no intimation here that the Sabbath was done away, or that its moral use was superseded, by the introduction of Christianity. I have shown elsewhere that, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, is a command of perpetual obligation, and can never be superseded but by the final termination of time. As it is a type of that rest which remains for the people of God, of an eternity of bliss, it must continue in full force till that eternity arrives; for no type ever ceases till the antitype be come. Besides, it is not clear that the apostle refers at all to the Sabbath in this place, whether Jewish or Christian; his σαββατων, of sabbaths or weeks, most probably refers to their feasts of weeks, of which much has been said in the notes on the Pentateuch.”

 

[squint]

God said it was six literal days. Man says it was millions of years. Who do you believe?

Never was it said that those days were either days as men view days whatsoever, nor were they ever said to be 'literal' days.

We all know that a day of God can be much longer than a day of mans determination.

2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Days or years in relation to God is 'as' in meaning not a strict mathematical formula. Mathematically it cannot be BOTH.

s

 

[Frogster]

So what do you think God's purpose was in creating a seventh day, setting it apart and sanctifying it.. for what HOLY purpose would there be in that??

God said it was six literal days. Man says it was millions of years. Who do you believe?

Seems like you guys forget that when the OT was written,it was a time of shadows...

Hebrews10:1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.

Hebrews 8:5 They serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things. For when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, “See that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain.”

Colossians 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

You must approach the scriptures as an unfolding story,because that is what it was.