The Reality of Universal Salvation in Scripture (2)

[SpiritDriven]

This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically created.
The old thread automatically closed is here: "The Reality of Universal Salvation in Scripture"

 

[Nadiine]

I hate when threads split - I don't know how to quote the posts over to the new one.

 

[mont974x4]

gotta copy and paste maybe?

 

[Tavita]

Yeah, looks like copy and paste it is....


[Quote:Originally Posted by Zaac ]
And I explain this to you the exact same way as it was explained to Soul Searcher.

The Word of God says 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death Rev. 20:14

So you are right the wages of sin is death. And that death will be in the lake of fire as God's Word says the lake of fire is the second death.

And if the lake of fire is a place of eternal torment, that's what the ones who are thrown there will endure forever and ever.[/quote]

Then again, you're saying Jesus didn't pay the full wages.. if He was to pay the FULL wages, He should still be there, in that LOF.. because it is never ending, you say.

Sorry, I'm having a little trouble....

 

[mont974x4]

You need to reconcile your interpretation of these verses with the ones that clearly show that not everyone is saved.

 

[Zaac]

Hi Zaac!

Zaac, listen to yourself... the second death is the death Jesus paid? Why isn't he still there in the Lake of Fire which you say is never ending? Was He ever in the Lake of Fire?

Why would Jesus be in the Lake of fire? He as the Lamb of God took on our sin to death and CONQUERED it. As He conquered death, there was no need for Him to be where death and that which will spend eternity dead are.

The punishment Jesus Himself referred to was aionios kolasis.. which means 'chastisement age-during'.

When He addressed the Pharisees, who believed in never ending suffering (even though it wasn't in the Torah... they picked it up on their dispersion into pagan countries) Jesus said it was chastisement age-during. He was correcting them... Matt 25:46

I'm not gonna even attempt to get into word studies here. We're speaking English. Unless you're referring to every word of Scripture in Greek, it's uselessly out of context to give me one word.

 

[Tavita]

You need to reconcile your interpretation of these verses with the ones that clearly show that not everyone is saved.

Sorry, mont, I don't clearly see that not everyone will be saved anywhere, in any scripture or passage.

 

[Zaac]

Then again, you're saying Jesus didn't pay the full wages..

Now you know that I didn't say that. Jesus paid the full wages of sin. But if you look at Scripture, Death is still around to be thrown into the Lake.

if He was to pay the FULL wages, He should still be there, in that LOF.. because it is never ending, you say.

Why would He still be there if He conquered the wages of sin and the grave?

 

[mont974x4]

Sorry, mont, I don't clearly see that not everyone will be saved anywhere, in any scripture or passage.

Is it my fault that you are blind to the passages we have posted?

 

[Tavita]

Is it my fault that you are blind to the passages we have posted?

Oh that's great... personal attack and assumption.

I've only believed in UR for roughly eighteen months, mont. I have been a believer for nearly thirty years. Don't be so condescending please. I saw it the way you see it for all those years too.

 

[mont974x4]

Then I am sad that you fell for this lie.

 

[Tavita]

Now you know that I didn't say that. Jesus paid the full wages of sin. But if you look at Scripture, Death is still around to be thrown into the Lake.



Why would He still be there if He conquered the wages of sin and the grave?

He has conquered the wages of sin and the grave for ALL. He rose up out of the earth and took captivity captive. Who were those in captivity? Wasn't it all of mankind? All died with Christ on the cross, not just a few.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Originally Posted by Floatingaxe
That is false. My sisters and brothers are only those who accept Jesus Christ as Saviour. That is when we become the true children of God.

A lot of Christains will say just what you have said here so I will not hold it against you but you are wrong. I have saw families torn apart by that type of thinking. It is never a good thing.

All born again Christians say that, because the Word of God tells us that. Families do get torn apart, but not becasue of this. They get torn apart because of sin.

We are in the family of man, all of us But we are not all in the family of God, blood-bought children...nope. My kin are Christ's only. It has nothing to do with being better than anyone. We are the redeemed, and we are the light of the world and the salt of the earth.

When you say we you refer to those who share your belief and you believe that you are special which is the same as believeing that you are better than those who believe differently. When this happens we see the light dims and the salt has lost its savor.

We don't merely share belief--we share the same Father. Spiritual ties run deeper than blood ties.

Yes, we are special! We are the Children of God on this Earth. We have the truth! We are supposed to be bringing people to Christ! We aren't better than anyone--just forgiven and redeemed. The Liught shines and the salt heals, Glory to God!

You are doing far too much judging on this forum, friend. Mind the claws. Christians don't disagree with this stuff.

 

[Tavita]

Then I am sad that you fell for this lie.

Don't be sad, mont. I hope one day you will see the lie we've all been taught down through the ages, brought into the church by the RCC.

 

[mont974x4]

Yes, I'm sure I'm the on in error seeing as how I have looked at all the relevant passages and reject the false hope and false gospel of univeralism.

As to buying into the lies of rome, if you knew me you'd know I have more issues with the false teachings of rome than I do with you.

 

[shepsgirl]

He has conquered the wages of sin and the grave for ALL. He rose up out of the earth and took captivity captive. Who were those in captivity? Wasn't it all of mankind? All died with Christ on the cross, not just a few.

If all died with Him on the cross, then everybody would already be Christians. They would be born Christians if Jesus's blood covered all people. There would be no need for any punishment.

How come when I became a Christian, I had to die to my old nature? If I died with Jesus when He was crucified, shouldn't that problem already been taken care of long before I was born? His blood would've already been on me.

 

[Floatingaxe]

In our natural state we do deserve hell. God knows this. That is why He provided a Saviour, a Lamb to substitute for us!

So Jesus is spedning eternity in hell then?

Why would you think such a weird thing from my post? Give your head a wee shake, man.

No.. the wage of sin is death and Jesus died so that we may live yet we will still die first which is the wage of sin.

Yes, right...so? Our physical death is not the wage paid. Our eternal SPIRITUAL DEATH is what that verse is referring to. Otherwise, all of us upon death are somehow paying for our sin? I shpould think not. Once I have given my life to Jesus Christ and He has forgiven me of all my sin, when I die, I am simply leaving this body and taking on my immortality in heaven. There is no payment being made. Jesus already did it.

No one deserves to be tortured for eternity. No one. Not one person can ever do anything that would justify such a punishment under any condition. In fact if all the sins of all the humans who ever lived and ever will live was all rolled together and placed on one person it still would not be infinite and such a punishment would still be infinitely unjust.

Yes they do deserve it, according to God. You are, once again, ascribing human value to God and His right to deliver condemnation. It is not wrong, nor unjust in any way.

All of humanity's sin was placed on one scapegoat--Jesus Christ. He bore it all. Those who refuse to allow their sins to be born by Him will pay for them themselves, and they will be judged by the righteous judge, once and for all time.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Then again, you're saying Jesus didn't pay the full wages.. if He was to pay the FULL wages, He should still be there, in that LOF.. because it is never ending, you say.

There is so much that UR's just do not understand about end things that it boggles my mind that they would be so audacious as to argue!

Jesus never spent one minute in Hell. He went to Sheol, or Hades, the place of the dead.

No one is in the Lake of Fire, or Gehenna now. It is a place on reserve for the GWT Judgment, except for a few extra-evil demons that God said He has already chained there.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Oh that's great... personal attack and assumption.

I've only believed in UR for roughly eighteen months, mont. I have been a believer for nearly thirty years. Don't be so condescending please. I saw it the way you see it for all those years too.

Please, I implore you--go back to the faith you once had. You have been sorely deceived, Tavita! You have not taken a forward step, but a major backward plunge. I am praying for you!

 

[Zaac]

He has conquered the wages of sin and the grave for ALL. He rose up out of the earth and took captivity captive. Who were those in captivity? Wasn't it all of mankind? All died with Christ on the cross, not just a few.

No one said He hasn't conquered the wages of sin and the grave for all. But you're acting like that statement throws out all of the other Scripture that further explain and qualify that Scripture.

You've taken away free will and the ability to choose. You've thrown out that God's Word says that these people who don't choose His Son will be thrown into the lake.

It's kinda scary that you would dismiss the overwhelming Scriptural evidence, but focus on what He doesn't say.