The Rapture theory is true?

[BobRyan]

"A thousand" does not need to mean exactly ONE thousand.

I can't mean "2000" or 2500 or 1500 ... But if you mean it can be off by 5 or 10 years I do not doubt that such a thing could happen.

"A thousand" is not a specific number. It symbolically means "many," and it can mean "all."

Deuteronomy 7:8-11 It was because the Lord loved you and kept the oath that he swore to your ancestors, that the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 9 Know therefore that the Lord your God is God, the faithful God who maintains covenant loyalty with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations,

A thousand generations - -in the context of "God's faithfulness" where the text does not mean "God will become unfaithful after 1000 generations.

By contrast Rev 20 is specifically speaking of a 1000 year period of time between Christ's appearing in Rev 19 and His return with the new Jerusalem in Rev 20-21, Great White Throne Judgment and the lake of fire event. Nothing in John's day or our day determines that the reader must not allow for that 1000 years to be 1000 years , any more than we would insist in Dan 9 that the 70 years of Jeremiah mentioned at the start of the chapter "must not be 70 years".

 

[iamlamad]

God didn't write ONE thousand years. He wrote A thousand years. These do not have the same meaning. The Jews do not view numbers the same way as many non-Jews do.

From Jewish Encyclopedia:

• Ten: Had a symbolical character in part because it is the basis of the decimal system, and in part because it is the sum of three and seven. Its simplest use is as a round number (Gen. xxiv. 10, 22; Josh. xxii. 14; Judges xvii. 10; et al.; comp. Lampronti, l.c. s.v.
  
  ). A more sacred use is found in the ritual (Ex. xxvi. 1, 16; Num. vii., xxviii., xxix.; I Kings vi., vii.; Ezek. xlv.; II Chron. iv.). Because of this sacred character "ten" is used in apocalyptic symbolism (Dan. vii. 7, 20, 24).Multiples of ten are used as round numbers: one hundred and two hundred, in Pes. 64b; et al.; one thousand, in Ḥul. 97b; Ned. 50b; Yer. Ta'an. iv. 8; ten thousand and two hundred thousand, in Yer. Ta'an. iv. 8; one million, in Yoma 33b.

Everything in heaven is perfect, so it is a manifestation of God's perfect will.

I think the people on the whole earth will soon experience a type of Exodus, and the evil-doers will be killed just as Pharaoh and his army were killed. The good people who are left behind will then serve God on earth as he desires to be served.

After a while, their descendants will fall away, and then the final antichrist will appear to seduce the Jews into believing he is their Messiah. This was prophesied by Jesus and also by some other prophets since then. John 5:41-43

Revelation 20:3 tells us THE thousand years. Here is a quote from the Talmad:
"“R. Katina said, “Six thousand years the world will exist and one [thousand, the seventh], it shall be desolate (haruv), as it is written, ‘And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day’ (Isa. 2:11)... R. Katina also taught, “Just as the seventh year is the Shmita year, so too does the world have one thousand years out of seven that are fallow (mushmat)”

"God made in six days the works of His hands, and He finished them the seventh day, and He rested the seventh day and sanctified it. Consider, my children, what this signifies: He finished them in six days. The meaning of it is this: that in six thousand years the Lord will bring all things to an end. For with Him one day is a thousand years, as Himself testifieth. Therefore, children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years -- Shall all things be accomplished. And what is that He saith, And He rested the seventh day? He meaneth this: that when His Son shall come, and abolish the season of the wicked one, and judge the ungodly, and shall change the sun, moon and stars, then He shall gloriously rest in that seventh day." (The thirteenth chapter of the apocryphal Epistle of Barnabas.)

We know that God created in 6 days and rested the 7th. We know that "one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day." We are very very close to the year 6000 from the fall of Adam. I believe the Jewish calendar has a mistake. (Tereh did not have triplets! I believe Abraham was the last of the three sons.)

Finally, Israel becoming a nation, then the world situation today, convinces me that God meant exactly 1000 years, where the land will lie fallow and Jesus will be king over the earth. Satan will be bound. The curse on this planet will be lifted. Lamb's will lay down with lions.

Therefore, I take Revelation 20 literally. I am expecting this age (Paul's special dispensation for the Gentile church of today) to wrap up quickly in the pre-tribulation rapture, and the Day of the Lord to begin immediately after. Then a few days later, the 7th seal will be opened to begin Daniel's 70th Week.

 

[iamlamad]

The Bible does not say the Marriage Supper will be held in heaven. It is illogical to think His bride will go there, when Jesus is coming here.

Keras, it is all in TIMING: Jesus comes to the air to get His church, then seven years later returns to earth to stay, and the church (plus the OT saints) return with Him. You and I will disagree.

 

[keras]

Keras, it is all in TIMING: Jesus comes to the air to get His church, then seven years later returns to earth to stay, and the church (plus the OT saints) return with Him. You and I will disagree.

It isn't in the timing, but in the fanciful dreams of the confused and deceived.
Jesus does not Return twice.
Believing you will return with Jesus is so far out in the realms of incredible fantasy, that even Star Trekkers would blush. Revelation 19:14 is the definitive Prophecy; Jesus will be accompanied by the Armies of heaven.

 

[Oseas]

I think you are not understanding. The incarnation of God is not the Bible. Logos, in the original writing, is applied to the incarnation, that we know as Jesus Christ, Logos is never in reference to the scriptures. You have your opinions that are being proclaimed as knowledge.

What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD-John 1:1-GOD Himself, and JESUS is the EXPRESS IMAGE of the Person of GOD, the Word-GOD Father-Hebrews 1:3- , so Word made flesh-John 1:14, JESUS is the IMAGE of GOD revealed and written in the Bible-Colossians 1:15, the book of the Lord. The interpretation above you have posted is the LITERAL fulfilment of the Word made flesh-JESUS, my Lord JESUS, saying : ... No man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal Him-Luke 10:22.
The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of GOD: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things,...1Cor.2:14-15.

I don't see that you do. Things are spread out, in fact thousands of years occurred within what are sequential prophecies in scripture passages. The collapse and fall are certain, as all scripture prophecies are, and Isaiah 24 is included. God hates the destruction to the world and it is generally happening, Revelation 11:18, and there is judgment that all which contribute to the destructiveness are subject to. There is reason God's people have to be called out. The there is more coming after that collapse, troubles are not over. God's people should be doing that which they always should have been doing. God never called for cities which men made.

Opinion is good for nothing, it's a stumbling block-Genesis 3:1. Your thinking is from a human perspective, not from GOD's perspective.

The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven in flaming FIRE taking vengeance on them that know not GOD, and that obey not the His gospel, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the Glory of His power; when He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in this Day. 2Thessalonians 1:7-10 combined with Matthew 28:18, --> the Lord's Day, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last milennium..

Joshua 5:13-15
13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his Sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
14 And he said, Nay; but as captain (a Prince) of the host of the Lord am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?
15 And the captain of the Lord's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

Daniel 12:-13
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time(because Michael stand up): and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Matthew 24:15 and 21-23
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand )
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man(Pastors, Bishops, Evangelists, etc.) shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ(John 5:43-47.Take a look), or there; BELIEVE IT NOT.

Revelation 12:7 and 10-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his messengers fought against the dragon(Revelation 13:11); and the dragon-Revelation 13:11- fought and his messengers(2Corinthians 11:13-15),
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our GOD (Revelation 11:15-18-Take a look) and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our GOD day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the Word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The WORD IS GOD, self-executing. Understand?

 

[Jan001]

I can't mean "2000" or 2500 or 1500 ... But if you mean it can be off by 5 or 10 years I do not doubt that such a thing could happen.

Apocalyptic language using these types of numbers is "symbolic," not literal.

A thousand generations - -in the context of "God's faithfulness" where the text does not mean "God will become unfaithful after 1000 generations.

1 Chronicles 16:15 Remember his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,

God is never unfaithful. The point of the "a thousand" generations in my scripture quote above is that there weren't literally even one hundred generations for the duration of the first covenant, yet "a thousand" generations was the number used in the text. A thousand did not literally mean one thousand.

By contrast Rev 20 is specifically speaking of a 1000 year period of time.

Apocalyptic language such as "a thousand" is not literal.

 

[Jan001]

Revelation 20:3 tells us THE thousand years. Here is a quote from the Talmad:
"“R. Katina said, “Six thousand years the world will exist and one [thousand, the seventh], it shall be desolate (haruv), as it is written, ‘And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day’ (Isa. 2:11)... R. Katina also taught, “Just as the seventh year is the Shmita year, so too does the world have one thousand years out of seven that are fallow (mushmat)”

"God made in six days the works of His hands, and He finished them the seventh day, and He rested the seventh day and sanctified it. Consider, my children, what this signifies: He finished them in six days. The meaning of it is this: that in six thousand years the Lord will bring all things to an end. For with Him one day is a thousand years, as Himself testifieth. Therefore, children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years -- Shall all things be accomplished. And what is that He saith, And He rested the seventh day? He meaneth this: that when His Son shall come, and abolish the season of the wicked one, and judge the ungodly, and shall change the sun, moon and stars, then He shall gloriously rest in that seventh day." (The thirteenth chapter of the apocryphal Epistle of Barnabas.)

We know that God created in 6 days and rested the 7th. We know that "one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day." We are very very close to the year 6000 from the fall of Adam. I believe the Jewish calendar has a mistake. (Tereh did not have triplets! I believe Abraham was the last of the three sons.)

Finally, Israel becoming a nation, then the world situation today, convinces me that God meant exactly 1000 years, where the land will lie fallow and Jesus will be king over the earth. Satan will be bound. The curse on this planet will be lifted. Lamb's will lay down with lions.

Therefore, I take Revelation 20 literally. I am expecting this age (Paul's special dispensation for the Gentile church of today) to wrap up quickly in the pre-tribulation rapture, and the Day of the Lord to begin immediately after. Then a few days later, the 7th seal will be opened to begin Daniel's 70th Week.

God hasn't told anyone how long the world will last. He does not plan to. It doesn't matter what the Talmud states. God is sovereign.

Matthew 24:35-36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

 

[BobRyan]

"A thousand" is not a specific number.

yes it is. Just as "three days" is a specific number and "70 years" in Dan 9 speaking of Jeremiah's 70 year prophecy is 70 years.

 

[BobRyan]

Apocalyptic language using these types of numbers is "symbolic," not literal.

Not true.

Apocalyptic literature has both symbolic and literal elements.

The devil is literal in Rev 12
The devil's angels are literal in Rev 12
God's angels are literal in Rev 12.
The Earth is literal in Rev 20
The armies of heaven and the armies of Earth are literal in Rev 19.

And in Rev 12 the devil is also called "the dragon" which is a symbol

John's readers would know that such literal things exist.

In fact in ALL apocalyptic writing in the Bible - a year is always 1 year.

That is not the case with day where it is often a year so that a week of 7 days is 7 literal years.

But years are always years.

1 Chronicles 16:15 Remember his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,

God is never unfaithful.

That is a true statement. So when the the context is "how long is God faithful" the context allows for eternity.

Not so with the space of time between Christ's appearing in Rev 19 and the lake of fire in Rev 20 separated by a real 1000 year period of time. Nothing in all of scripture says that they cannot be separated by a real 1000 year period of time.

 

[Oseas]

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers-ministers of Satan- also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. 2Corinthians 11:13-15

His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant. Isaiah 56:10-12

Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers,...Philippians 3:2

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Revelation 22:15

The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the TAIL*. The leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed. (1Timothy 4:1-2) Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still. Isaiah 9:15-17

And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his TAIL* drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth...Revelation 12:3-4

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his messengers were cast out with him. Revelation 12:9 amnd 12->Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them(Ephesians 1:3-8). Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Get ready

 

[Jan001]

yes it is. Just as "three days" is a specific number and "70 years" in Dan 9 speaking of Jeremiah's 70 year prophecy is 70 years.

It's okay with me if you believe "a thousand" means "one thousand."

 

[Jan001]

Not true.

Apocalyptic literature has both symbolic and literal elements.

The devil is literal in Rev 12
The devil's angels are literal in Rev 12
God's angels are literal in Rev 12.
The Earth is literal in Rev 20
The armies of heaven and the armies of Earth are literal in Rev 19.

And in Rev 12 the devil is also called "the dragon" which is a symbol

John's readers would know that such literal things exist.

In fact in ALL apocalyptic writing in the Bible - a year is always 1 year.

That is not the case with day where it is often a year so that a week of 7 days is 7 literal years.

But years are always years.

That is a true statement. So when the the context is "how long is God faithful" the context allows for eternity.

Not so with the space of time between Christ's appearing in Rev 19 and the lake of fire in Rev 20 separated by a real 1000 year period of time. Nothing in all of scripture says that they cannot be separated by a real 1000 year period of time.

It is fine with me if you believe this.