The Prosperity Doctrine

[Bob Carabbio]

so are you saying that prosperity IS GOD'S will for HIS people?... just don't teach it?....

Nope - I'm saying what the BIBLE says. SEEK YE FIRST the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.

God's will for YOU might include "Financial prosperity", but it might also include tragedy, scourging, brokenness, sickness, LOSS, pain, great joy, and peace.

And your "Wof" beliefs and practices are likely to have no REAL effect over what happens in your life one way or another.

 

[HolySpiritWOF2]

What Effect has it had in YOUR "Prosperity level"???

true wof prosperity teaching.... by our sof.... is spirit.... soul.... body.... health.... finances.... social..... etc.... the complete man....

it is the same principles for any of these areas....

my testimony is that before wof.... i thought like you... that healing.... financial prosperity.... safety..... favor.... etc.... was given to some.... and NOT to others....

i personally suffered in all areas.... to a traumatically miserable degree....

after i learned the truth about GOD'S BLESSING.... ALL areas reversed..... out of the curse.... and into the blessing.... and is still continuing an upward spiral.... into more success/blessing in EVERY area....

i have changed NOTHING.... from pre-wof anti-wof.... to now fully wof.... EXCEPT.... my belief about GOD'S BLESSINGS being available to whosoever will.... and of course my corresponding faith actions....

pre-wof anti-wof.... i was always asking GOD why HE wouldn't help me.... and my corresponding action was to fear/fret/worry/complain..... while looking for a way to relieve my suffering....

fully wof.... i NOW resist ANYTHING that contradicts HIS WORD/promise/blessing.... speaking HIS WORD over the contradiction/circumstance.... until it is removed/changed....

the longer i walk and talk wof.... the shorter the time span for a contradictory experience to turn into an experience that matches HIS WORD/promise/blessing....

 

[Exegesis1]

true wof prosperity teaching.... by our sof.... is spirit.... soul.... body.... health.... finances.... social..... etc.... the complete man....

it is the same principles for any of these areas....

my testimony is that before wof.... i thought like you... that healing.... financial prosperity.... safety..... favor.... etc.... was given to some.... and NOT to others....

i personally suffered in all areas.... to a traumatically miserable degree....

after i learned the truth about GOD'S BLESSING.... ALL areas reversed..... out of the curse.... and into the blessing.... and is still continuing an upward spiral.... into more success/blessing in EVERY area....

i have changed NOTHING.... from pre-wof anti-wof.... to now fully wof.... EXCEPT.... my belief about GOD'S BLESSINGS being available to whosoever will.... and of course my corresponding faith actions....

pre-wof anti-wof.... i was always asking GOD why HE wouldn't help me.... and my corresponding action was to fear/fret/worry/complain..... while looking for a way to relieve my suffering....

fully wof.... i NOW resist ANYTHING that contradicts HIS WORD/promise/blessing.... speaking HIS WORD over the contradiction/circumstance.... until it is removed/changed....

the longer i walk and talk wof.... the shorter the time span for a contradictory experience to turn into an experience that matches HIS WORD/promise/blessing....

What is this topic about

 

[TasManOfGod]

What is this topic about

Try reading the heading -there maybe a clue there

 

[now faith]

so are you saying that prosperity IS GOD'S will for HIS people?... just don't teach it?....

Nope - I'm saying what the BIBLE says. SEEK YE FIRST the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.

God's will for YOU might include "Financial prosperity", but it might also include tragedy, scourging, brokenness, sickness, LOSS, pain, great joy, and peace.

And your "Wof" beliefs and practices are likely to have no REAL effect over what happens in your life one way or another.

I choose my WOF beliefs, over your sick, broken, busted, ones, I am not a very good witness if sinners see me being,scourged , sick, broken. What would I say come meet my Lord, and you can suffer like me! Bob I will see you in Heaven one day bless God no matter how we get there.

 

[dollarsbill]

There's certainly nothing wrong with God giving His people what they desire. Just look at Job. He was rich and pleased God GREATLY!

 

[now faith]

I will try to explain what prosperity means, to me. Yes it is receiving spiritual ,physical, financial blessing from God. It is knowing that he is love, and his love can't be removed from me by anything anyone . Its his blessing in answered prayers for all. Watching him perform mighty works of restoration with my children and him telling me all along its going to be OK .Its knowlage of his will, when we ask and prayers are answered. People who are walking in his will have no problem asking believing and getting what we ask, because due to our faith we know how and what to ask for and our faith pleases God. We know how to give , we seek no glory for our giving,when you give in secrete, he rewards us openly. You can't out give God! He loves a cheerful giver. We get exited when we are a blessing then we get blessed we get a little over joyed,a sometimes it is not understood so it is.We dont care we know our walk and our God through Christ. But hears the thing we want others to prosper out of love for them, we want unbelievers saved we seek to please God firsthand. I believe as a Child of the King I have power and authority in Jesus holy name. I live by the context of 2nd Corinthians chapter 4 sure there is trouble on every side and we can be cast down , but we are part of his body we don't deny oppressions, we deny their right. We believe in faith in God and provision from affliction. The old song say there's wonder working power in the precious blood of the lamb.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Nothing specific, then - n/p

 

[dkbwarrior]

Nothing specific, then - n/p

I've already given you specifics. I've shown you empirically that the living vibrant and growing church outside of the west is the WOF movement. It is only here in the west that people think they can meet their own needs and therefore do not feel any need to believe the promises of God regarding their physical needs.

Not only that, but subjectively, from my experience, I have found that by and far the people that are the most vociferous and adamant in their opposition to the promises of God are those that are relatively well off themselves. They seem to feel that because they have what they need already, and were able to attain that status without believing the promises of God, that others should "earn it" like they did, or take their handouts, and therefore they should discourage others from believing the promises of God for themsleves. It is a completely self centered and selfish position to take, IMHO; and such a thought process is only enabled by virtue of ones status and postion of being born in the afluent west. It is the exact opposite of the gospel to the poor that Jesus came to teach.

Peace...

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"I am not a very good witness if sinners see me being,scourged , sick, broken."

On the other hand, I've gone through 13 heart attacks (since 1992). One happened in morning service at church, and I was back by the next Wednesday night. There have been two Open hearts (still have enough "leg" left for one more), and 16 stents. Only two out of three leaves in my Mitral valve are still operating and 1/3 of my heart is dead.

But I still live a completely normal life for my age, and you couldn't tell the difference between me and any other 70-year old geezer - still working full time with no retirement plans, Picking Bluegrass with the Band, and my income (as a non-degreed Chief engineer) is higher now than it's ever been.

SO how have YOUR "WOF" beliefs been any more successful in producing a good testimony for YOU than my "sick,broken, busted ones" have been for me???

Folks (that know my medical history, which I don't hide) see me as something of a "Miracle" of God's power walking around. I don't object to that one bit, y'all!!!!

 

[Humble Pie]

What is it about the prosperity doctrine that leads people to believe you need to be living the American dream to be a good witness for Jesus?

 

[dollarsbill]

Job was VERY wealthy financially and VERY Godly.

Job 1:1-3 (NASB)
1 There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil. 2 Seven sons and three daughters were born to him. 3 His possessions also were 7,000 sheep, 3,000 camels, 500 yoke of oxen, 500 female donkeys, and very many servants; and that man was the greatest of all the men of the east.

Job 1:8 (NASB)
8 The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."

Why does anyone foolishly equate wealth with evil? It just isn't so.

 

[Humble Pie]

Why does anyone foolishly equate wealth with evil? It just isn't so.

I don't know anyone who does that.

 

[HolySpiritWOF2]

Job was VERY wealthy financially and VERY Godly.

Job 1:1-3 (NASB)
1 There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil. 2 Seven sons and three daughters were born to him. 3 His possessions also were 7,000 sheep, 3,000 camels, 500 yoke of oxen, 500 female donkeys, and very many servants; and that man was the greatest of all the men of the east.

Job 1:8 (NASB)
8 The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."

Why does anyone foolishly equate wealth with evil? It just isn't so.

they don't read the first 14 verses of deuteronomy 28. GOD clearly gives wealth of all kinds to those who love HIM and obey HIM.

they go by religious tradition that says that HAVING wealth is evil. they mis-read the SCRIPTURE that says the LOVE of MONEY is the root of all evil.

1 Timothy 6:10
Luke 16:14
1 Timothy 3:3
2 Timothy 3:2
Hebrews 13:5

 

[HolySpiritWOF2]

GOD is the author of the prosperity doctrine....
here is the original prosperity doctrine.... it sounds like every type of wealth and prosperity imaginable.... for those who love GOD.... if you read ONLY this what would you say GOD is saying to you?...

Deuteronomy 28 NKJV
28 “Now it shall come to pass, if you diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments which I command you today, that the Lord your God will set you high above all nations of the earth. 2 And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, because you obey the voice of the Lord your God:
3 “Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the country.
4 “Blessed shall be the fruit of your body, the produce of your ground and the increase of your herds, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks.
5 “Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.
6 “Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out.
7 “The Lord will cause your enemies who rise against you to be defeated before your face; they shall come out against you one way and flee before you seven ways.
8 “The Lord will command the blessing on you in your storehouses and in all to which you set your hand, and He will bless you in the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
9 “The Lord will establish you as a holy people to Himself, just as He has sworn to you, if you keep the commandments of the Lord your God and walk in His ways. 10 Then all peoples of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of the Lord, and they shall be afraid of you. 11 And the Lord will grant you plenty of goods, in the fruit of your body, in the increase of your livestock, and in the produce of your ground, in the land of which the Lord swore to your fathers to give you. 12 The Lord will open to you His good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in its season, and to bless all the work of your hand. You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. 13 And the Lord will make you the head and not the tail; you shall be above only, and not be beneath, if you heed the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you today, and are careful to observe them. 14 So you shall not turn aside from any of the words which I command you this day, to the right or the left, to go after other gods to serve them.

 

[hislegacy]

What Effect has it had in YOUR "Prosperity level"???

Well, thank you for asking.

Let's see......

I am a happily marry 52 year old husband and father of six. We are some of those poor, misguided health and prosperity people you look at. What has my view on health and wealth done for us.

Mind you, I currently haveno health insurance and five children living at home.

Our family expenses on medical last year was just below 900.00. That includes dentist visits and all meds, vitamins etc for a family of 7

I have not called off sick in 19 years and the last time I needed doctor care you were in your late 40's.

Four of five children had perfect attendance at school. One missed a day because of the flu (which stayed less that a day and a half).

We live completely debt free except for the rental house we own, it will pay for itsself in the next three years.

Our total income last year was less than 50,000, that's for a family of seven.
We pay our tithe first, ourselves second and our billls when they come in.

Because we pray for our finances, we live well below our means, shop selectively and listen to the voice of God closely.

And He has answered. A couple years ago at the leading of the Holy Spirit a 4,000 investment became 12,000 in four months. It was so nice to write the tithe check and then give a chunk to a missionary we know.

In two months I will be opening a business with two friends and the potential is huge.

That's how it's working for me.

How is your sickness and poverty working for you?

 

[hislegacy]

What is it about the prosperity doctrine that leads people to believe you need to be living the American dream to be a good witness for Jesus?

Bad teaching.

It's a major weakness in the Word of Faith. Becoming so focused on one subject that they get out of balance.

We could ask the same thing for the other end of the spectrum

What is it about the anti-prosperity doctrine that leads people to believe their poverty and suffering makes them a good witness for Jesus?

 

[now faith]

Bad teaching.

It's a major weakness in the Word of Faith. Becoming so focused on one subject that they get out of balance.

We could ask the same thing for the other end of the spectrum

What is it about the anti-prosperity doctrine that leads people to believe their poverty and suffering makes them a good witness for Jesus?

I would not consider teaching prosperity a weakness but rather a strength.
It depends on how others view prosperity, some think its nothing but about money. Its about all the blessings promised in the bible , and belief in them. WOF teaches money is simply a tool for Gods children to use. Health,love, peace all come in the promises, it all starts and ends with faith. You and I are like the rest of folks, I get wore down when these nut cases turn God into a money machine. For instance, a guy calls and says God told me to call 7 people and if they give me 250 dollars the wealth will pour out. Its like people who get caught up in investment scams, they get hooked because of their greed. Then he keeps calling none stop and you time and time again are part of the magnificent seven. I don't know any WOF doing this, but many confuse teaching blessing and prosperity, with the money guys. In a true WOF teacher any claims made can be backed by the word.

 

[now faith]

"I am not a very good witness if sinners see me being,scourged , sick, broken."

On the other hand, I've gone through 13 heart attacks (since 1992). One happened in morning service at church, and I was back by the next Wednesday night. There have been two Open hearts (still have enough "leg" left for one more), and 16 stents. Only two out of three leaves in my Mitral valve are still operating and 1/3 of my heart is dead.

But I still live a completely normal life for my age, and you couldn't tell the difference between me and any other 70-year old geezer - still working full time with no retirement plans, Picking Bluegrass with the Band, and my income (as a non-degreed Chief engineer) is higher now than it's ever been.

SO how have YOUR "WOF" beliefs been any more successful in producing a good testimony for YOU than my "sick,broken, busted ones" have been for me???

Folks (that know my medical history, which I don't hide) see me as something of a "Miracle" of God's power walking around. I don't object to that one bit, y'all!!!!

Bob you are a great witness for WOF you have been afflicted , and healed 13 times you sound happy in your blessing of music , and serve God in the best way you know how , you have answered your own question! You out of all understand by his stripes I am healed. I think you have confused WOF with the wolves in sheep's clothing out there today.

 

[hopeinGod]

The great lack that I see within the prosperity doctrine is the lack of understanding regarding suffering. Everything bad is of the devil, and everything good is of God, the adherents believe.

At any time suffering occurs, it does through one of three avenues, and it is through the exercising of our senses that we determine whether the source is the devil, the reaping of sin we've sown, or God Himself.

Unfortunately, for the WOF groups, the only source of suffering to them is the devil, as they refuse to acknowledge that no fasting, casting out, rebuking or use of authority will take away either the consequences of their sin or one of God's divinely appointed times of suffering.

If from God, the intent is often to tear down those things that are not of Him and the building of those things that are. In order to construct on a piece of property, there frequently has to be demolition. This also must take place in the soul of believers.

We should not be focused on proving just how spiritually powerful we are, and through those assertions earn God's reward and blessing. Instead, our focus should be on learning to deny ourselves, take up His cross, and follow Him. WOF, on the other hand, doesn't teach that a believer deny himself/herself, but to spend their walks insisting on entitlements.