I didn’t say this specifically but how do you know? If God gives a revelation of something to a person that may be new to him and even the others that hear.That verse doesn't say God gives us new revelations by impressions, stirrings, or the like.
And this discernment or spiritual judgement is by the things God reveals to believers in spirit as we read,Yes, Biblical discernment and their theology is key.
So now you change your words and agree that the Spirit will reveal things to all believers and teach them about all things, including the meaning of scripture and all things of God and yes God can tell them of everything. They were enriched by Him in everything and in all utterance. God can give them a prophecy or word of knowledge or wisdom etc.Spiritual discernment that the things the apostles spoke are true - yes. But that is not God telling them to do things by sudden impressions or the like.
I hope you don’t try to associate me with these things I do not agree with many of these.Or more likely, the masses are being attracted by the promise of a magic show, the promise of a rock music performance, the promise of healings that rarely materialise, the promise of supernatural experiences, the promise of emotional frenzies, the promise of health and prosperity.
But only if you first give a "seed offering" to the Lord's work, which is used to pay for the leader's mansion and private jet.
Since my previous reply, you have mostly done nothing but....I don't think I have ever seen a more confused person twist scripture and use fallacy arguments more than you. You have no understanding of spiritual things at all from what you say. You run in a frantic fluster to many attacks on any scriptural correction or correction you get here. I see pride as the main error you are in, you act as if you are some great one, some great natural man in mans wisdom who uses excellency of speech and other mens words. You seem to be very troubled ay anything spiritual. But Christianity is a spiritual belief. Believers are taught by the Spirit, empowered by the Spirit, led by the Spirit, walk in the Spirit, worship in the Spirit, pray in the Spirit, speak in the Spirit, have revelations in the Spirit prophesy in the Spirit, speak in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance, live in the Spirit, have the Spirit of God dwelling in them. and many other spiritual realities as they live n Christ. Of which I and many other christians have experience many times, daily in fact. This is the normal christian life, or it should be.
Here are some of the false attacks you use in your discussion.
1. You just deny any scripture or correction towards your words and twist the text to try and make it not say what it does not say.
2. You attack the text in the manuscripts by saying the KJV is wrong. This is done by many when they cannot deal with the actual scripture and who resort to corrupt translations that disagree with eachother in thousands of places. Or you try and run to other versions. I use other versions to show you simply that the words I use are also used by others. But I only need the one book.
3. You run in a fearful frenzy to any commentator you think can agree with you. But mostly they do not disagree with what i say. And I do not put men above that which is written. There are many commentators that will agree with what I share but it is not a matter to me. I see the text and it is clear enough. God shows many proofs of the teaching I have been showing .
4. You try to go to the Greek or Hebrew to search in a fluster to find some meaning of a word that you think can change the clear meaning from scripture. I use the Greek and Hebrew as a general meaning of a word, I do not change the word as you do. I
5. When you are corrected clearly you try to change the subject and create another fallacy argument by going off in a different direction.
6. You try to build a straw man fallacy against what I say by reframing what you are trying to make me say and say things like I am trying to say that God speaks in impressions or esp, or feelings etc. I have shown I am speaking of hearing Gods voice, in words in the spirit and heart.
7. You try to arrack my person and say lies about me so many times I can barely present them al;l. This is done when your argument fails. I do not do this to you, i rebuke, correct, warn and exhort you, in hopes that you will see your error and come to the light of truth.
8. You also seem to trust a false reasoning that because you think a certain number of men do not see what I share ( even though others do) that the number of men that you use makes you right. This is a false reasoning. The majority is often wrong Icould bring many example for this.
No, I do not do this. The hidden things of God are only seen and hear in the Spirit, and taught by the Spirit, which you claim to never have been taught this way. You act as if you just reading scripture and
We've already discussed whether the absence of the 'word' Trinity means we can go beyond what is written and invent new doctrines that are not in scripture. Go back and read.Many doctrines are taught and do not go against scripture for one things. They also are in scripture but many do not see them. For example the doctrine of the Trinity , though the word Trinity is not mentioned in scripture. It is however a vital doctrine. But it is found in scripture as we have spiritual revelation of the text and understanding. Many try to use the same bible to deny the Trinity and say that Jesus Christ is not God etc. So doctrine is also a revelation of God, even when using scripture.
They had the audible voice of God, and God's moral law written on their hearts and their conscience informing them of right and wrong. They didn't invent their own doctrines like you do with your idea that God tells us to do things by our impressions or the like.Men like Abraham and Noah and others had somewhat doctrine or teaching from God and they had no scriptures at the time.
Only the antiquated KJV and it's derivatives say the Corinthians brought a "doctrine" to the assembly. Note that it doesn't say "a new doctrine".But we also read in Corinth
“How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.”(1 Corinthians 14:26 KJV)
That verse doesn't say we can receive new doctrines. Again all other versions have the word "teaching".
That verse says the opposite! It says to obey the sound doctrines given, not invent new ones."For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;" ( 1 Timothy 1:10 KJV)
No, I did not mean the whole chapter. I made a typing mistake and I corrected my error, not you. Why would I say the whole chapter when the specific subject of my paragraph was verse 13 only? You made the error of thinking the "us" in that verse is all believers, and I corrected your error along with 45 commentators.Lol, so now when you are clearly wrong and I quote a commentator that so heavily disagrees with you in this particular section of scripture, you do not admit your error at all, you rush in a frantic fluster to your vs 13 that you think shows Paul is speaking of his own experience and another persons or persons. But that is dishonest again. You clearly said,
"Against every single commentator, you have been desperately trying to argue that the "we" in 1 Cor 2 is all believers - all throughout this thread."
and now you try to run away from admitting your error.
and you didn't even comment on this correction to every thing you have been saying in this entire thread. I only used one commentator here, even though scripture corrects you all over.
read it again and notice the things he says that agree with what I have been saying. I don't need this mans words, but I show it to correct you with what you seem to trust in.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
But God hath revealed them unto us,.... Should it be said, that since this wisdom is so hidden and mysterious, the doctrines of the Gospel are so unknown, so much out of the sight and understanding of men, how come any to be acquainted with them? The answer is ready, God has made a revelation of them, not only in his word, which is common to men, nor only to his ministers, but to private Christians and believers, by his Spirit; which designs not the external revelation made in the Scriptures, though that also is by the Spirit; but the internal revelation and application of the truths of the Gospel to the souls of men, which is sometimes ascribed to the Father of Christ. Matthew 16:17 sometimes to Christ himself, Galatians 1:12 and sometimes to the Spirit of Christ, Ephesians 1:17 and who guides into all truth, John 16:13, and here to the Father by the Spirit."
I never said it does. I asked for verses that say God gives new revelations to believers by impressions or the like, telling them to do things etc, and you gave me 1 Cor 2:13. We now know you were wrong, and not a single commentator agrees with you. But if there are other verses that say as you claim then let's have them. After 79 pages you've still not provided one.That does not mean for a second that he is saying "and only apostles can have the revelation and teaching of the Holy Ghost"
Me and 45 commentators have already explained to you who the "we" are.In fact, the "we" could be referring to all who are spiritual, who had spken in the Spirit often there in that church, and those that are perfect and who can judge and discern all things and have had revelation of the things of God as many of the Corinthians did. Or it could be referring to a man named "Sosthenes", that we read about in the first verse of chapter 1.
It’s called reproof , correction, exhortation, stopping the mouths of gainsayers, standing for the truth, contending earnestly for the gospel .Since my previous reply, you have mostly done nothing but....
So I will be ignoring most of your replies.
- Attack me personally with enormous diatribes of ad-hominem insults and false accusations against me, such as this one. But I can understand why you do this. It is only natural to attack the messenger when years of ingrained ideology is proved to be wrong.
- Repeat your flawed understanding of certain scriptures. Endlessly regurgitating them doesn't make them correct. I have already debunked your idea of what they mean and identified the fallacies you employed. Go back and read them, then reply to my rebuttals if you think I'm wrong. I'm getting fed up of having to repeat myself umpteen times.
- Creating irrelevant strawman arguments, such as when the apostles were saved or harping on about the 'impressions' - the word virtually all other charismatics use to describe how God speaks to them.
Paul, speaking to believers.....A matter not mentioned is that our redemption and sanctification renews the Whole Man - we are to become more like Jesus in every aspect of life.
This includes the imagination, the intuition, the conscience, - all become perfected by His work in our lives.
For this reason it is out of order to continue to put down for example role of the intuition which our friend hammers away at.
We learned to consecrate every aspect of self to God and give Him control and access to all of these aspects of our lives.
So a redeemed intuition can in fact save our lives. He can warn us of a threat by this means that we would never otherwise know about.
So I celebrate every aspect of the wonderful life I have been given - all are dedicated to Jesus and all are to be celebrated not berated and condemned.
Why the intense condemnation of the intuition ?
Who dares to condemn any aspect of the beautiful life we have been given - so wonderfully assisting us as it was created to do.
The clue to the meaning of this verse is given at the end of the verse itself...I didn’t say this specifically but how do you know? If God gives a revelation of something to a person that may be new to him and even the others that hear.
For example, a person might have a revelation of a scripture that is a hard one to understand . When he shares that the entire gathering he was part of will learn a new understanding. They may have been following a wrong understanding for a long time and now a revelation of teaching or doctrine comes.
They may also have a revelation of something to come which is not written. Or God may say to them to go to a certain persons house and pray for them. They won’t find that persons name or house in the scripture. So it is a new revelation of something for thier life. The examples if this are so many in life that it is overwhelming the ways God can reveal anything.
I could give many examples.
And as I have said, I am not speaking of impressions or stirrings or being moved or led in a inward way specifically . I am speaking of hearing the voice of God and actual inward teaching and words.
But I could also speak of being pressed in the spirit (impressions), and stirrings and feelings inward as scripture also shows of these.
Sometimes, when a believer has a sitting or is being pressed in the spirit it may be with words from God also. But to discern this is a deep spiritual reality and it may be a still small voice that sone hear clearer than others do. The clarity of hearing may come also with maturity to those who are full of age who have their spiritual senses exercised to discern things.
I said no such thing. You put words into my mouth, as well as Paul's. Where did I say the Spirit would teach believers about all things?So now you change your words and agree that the Spirit will reveal things to all believers and teach them about all things, including the meaning of scripture and all things of God and yes God can tell them of everything. They were enriched by Him in everything and in all utterance. God can give them a prophecy or word of knowledge or wisdom etc.
Paul, speaking to believers.....
1 Corinthians 8:2 If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know.
I see you ran away from even considering the ,an, (brother as Paul calls him) in 1 Cor 1. This man "Sosthenes" and Paul wrote to the church, so the we could possibly be both of them. I already showed you commentators that say Paul sis referring in the surrounding verses to all the saints. I already showed you many times that I said Paul "also" refers to his and possibly the brother mentioned in chapter 1:1, or those who are spiritual.I never said it does. I asked for verses that say God gives new revelations to believers by impressions or the like, telling them to do things etc, and you gave me 1 Cor 2:13. We now know you were wrong, and not a single commentator agrees with you. But if there are other verses that say as you claim then let's have them. After 79 pages you've still not provided one.
Me and 45 commentators have already explained to you who the "we" are.
I saidI said no such thing. You put words into my mouth, as well as Paul's. Where did I say the Spirit would teach believers about all things?
and you saidThere would be no way for the Corinthians to discern what Paul taught by the revelation of the Spirit he had unless they were spiritual and had spiritual discernment and teaching by God and unless God revealed them to them. Paul's own words would be meaningless to them unless they heard from God in them.
So, we start here, that you seem to finally admit that the Holy Ghost gives a revelation of scripture. That revelation is the only way any can know the things of God, and what is known in scripture. It doesn't say we need to trust old mans philosophies of interpretation or the wisdom of man or excellency of speech or ancient pagan interpretation between the false gods called hermeneutics etc or the "rules" of hermeneutics. No. The unction/anointing teaches us all things. We have no need that any man should teach us. But in your understanding we need men to teach us. So if John says we do not need man to teach us, then what does that mean if God gives teachers to the body Well, we listen in our spirit for God to bear witness to what is said by a manifestation of the truth in us and the revelation of God to teach us what is said. This inner witness and confirmation from God and His guidance and teaching is what we are to hear. This would also be the voice of the Lord in us.The clue to the meaning of this verse is given at the end of the verse itself...
Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
So yes, the Holy Spirit giving an insight into the one true meaning of a verse would be such a revelation.
I gave you this commentator below. I already said Paul does speak of his own experience and another to make the "we", but he said the things he :"also" spoke shows that he was simply adding his teaching to the things that God had already given to them. He already in chapter 1 said they were enriched in everything by God and in all utterance and knowledge of Him. here is the quote I gave again, but you seem to just ignore it even though he totally disagrees with you.I never said it does. I asked for verses that say God gives new revelations to believers by impressions or the like, telling them to do things etc, and you gave me 1 Cor 2:13. We now know you were wrong, and not a single commentator agrees with you.
You have done this to me often and tried to associate what I say with false doctrine and Gnostics and many attacks upon me. I simply reprove and rebuke with all longsuffering and doctrine the gainsayers of the truth I speak of here. I seek to helo you to learn t hear God speaking to you and wait on him in humility.Since my previous reply, you have mostly done nothing but....
- Attack me personally with enormous diatribes of ad-hominem insults and false accusations against me,
No you have proven nothing you are soo wrong in most of what you say. You start from a position that says you have never heard the voice of God in you and the teaching of the Holy Ghost. So its all downhill from there.
- debunked your idea of what they mean and identified the fallacies you employed.
its like a clanging symbol.I'm getting fed up of having to repeat myself umpteen times.
you do this soo often I can barely record all the timesCreating irrelevant strawman arguments,
showing when the apostles were saved in connection to them hearing and being taught by God (as all believers are" is very relevant to the discussoon of hearing from God inwardly. It was not a straw man argument,all are connected in great detail.such as when the apostles were saved
In that very sentence you use a fallacy argument and straw man. You try to use words and language and associate me with others that you call "charismatics" and then try to tear down the straw man as if you tear me down and my teachings from scripture. This is a false thing to do.or harping on about the 'impressions' - the word virtually all other charismatics use to describe how God speaks to them.
You have already been ignoring many of the things I show, you avoid ket parts and edit certain words and group large sections together that have various different points and try to simply group them together as if they are just wrong and make large over generalizations etc.So I will be ignoring most of your replies.
whic is accurate and sound according to the text as i and other commentators agree.No, I did not mean the whole chapter. I made a typing mistake and I corrected my error, not you. Why would I say the whole chapter when the specific subject of my paragraph was verse 13 only? You made the error of thinking the "us" in that verse is all believers, and I corrected your error along with 45 commentators.
Why would I say otherwise when I already know that some commentators extend the "us" to all believers in other verses of that chapter
those others are wrong, plain and simpleOthers don't,
that is wrong as scripture shows in context and gramatical structure and through the revelation of the Spirit.and say the "us" is only the apostles in those verses.
To a new Christians, all things that God reveals o them, wether in direct speaking in their heart towards understanding the things of God and their walk and all things, or the revelation of the scripture and understanding and discerning of all things. These things will be "new" to them. A new revelation can be many things.Personal words to that believer or forth telling or prophecy and teaching etc. There is no scripture that says the Lord will only reveal things in the heart of believers about the scriptures only. God speaks many things and directs all believers in every thing. God enriched the Corinthians in everything and in all utterance and knowledge of HimBut show me one commentator, just one, who says any of those verses in 1 Cor 2 is referring to God giving us new revelations