The pain that non-borderlines feel from borderlines

[GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta]

I've noticed that so much attention on this forum is directed toward borderlines and the pain that they feel, but what about the non-borderlines in their lives? Non-borderlines are at the receiving end of a very abusive relationship that the borderline dishes out.

Things like:

1) Manipulation
2) Control
3) Verbal Abuse
4) Push/Pull crazy-making

Borderlines do this and much more to others, and yet so many people want to feel more sorry for them, even though the have destructive personalities to the people around them.

 

[madison1101]

I believe this particular Forum is supposed to be exactly for borderlines, about borderlines. If you have been abused by a borderline, you may want to seek individual psychotherapy, marital therapy, if it applies, and if physical violence is involved, press charges and file for divorce.

My ex and I worked for years on our marriage, with my mental health issues at the forefront of all of the work. He filed for divorce 9 years ago and regained his sanity, and I am doing better also.

But this Forum is for the help of people with Borderline Personality Disorder.

Good luck
trish

 

[who93]

I too, would like to know if there is some kind of support group for the people who are on the receiving end of the abuse dished out by those affected by a mental illness. My mother struggles with a diagnosed mental illness and has been in a state of denial about it for the past 14 years. It can be very difficult trying to maintain a normal relationship with her because of her illness. If anyone knows of an online support group for the people on the receiving end, I would appreciate the information. Thank you and God bless!

 

[madison1101]

I too, would like to know if there is some kind of support group for the people who are on the receiving end of the abuse dished out by those affected by a mental illness. My mother struggles with a diagnosed mental illness and has been in a state of denial about it for the past 14 years. It can be very difficult trying to maintain a normal relationship with her because of her illness. If anyone knows of an online support group for the people on the receiving end, I would appreciate the information. Thank you and God bless!

I recommend that anyone that has a close family member who has a mental illness get psychotherapy for themselves. Bipolar disorder runs in families.

I also believe that the book "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend would be helpful in taking care of yourself in a relationship with someone who is unable to relate in a healthy way.

Trish

 

[Sarabi]

Yea, we do.......... but
its is a chemical imbalance.
This is a support forum for those with BPD - check out NAMI , they have good resources and NIMH, as well as numerous books out there. The best thing to do - realize they can't always help it.......... love them unconditionally

 

[madison1101]

Yea, we do.......... but
its is a chemical imbalance.
This is a support forum for those with BPD - check out NAMI , they have good resources and NIMH, as well as numerous books out there. The best thing to do - realize they can't always help it.......... love them unconditionally

Where did you get the idea that BPD is a chemical imbalance. All of my research and my therapist indicate it is a learned pattern of thinking, feeling and behaving. Becauwe it is learned, it can be unlearned. I worked hard to change my thinking and behavior.

I know of no research that says BPD is chemical. It is a personality disorder, and these are not rooted in brain chemistry, but learned patterns.

If you have research that supports a chemical imbalance theory, I would love to read it.

Trish

 

[Sarabi]

Well i guess with me it goes hadn in hand with the bipolar which is.

 

[madison1101]

Well i guess with me it goes hadn in hand with the bipolar which is.

I am bipolar too. That does not change my personal responsibility to change my thinking and behavior. My therapist is a toughie, and he never lets me think I am helpless because of a chemical imbalance. I am always responsible for my behavior and thinking and must work to change both regardless of how I feel.

BPD is not a chemical imbalance, and having Bipolar Disorder does not excuse Borderline behavior. It just makes it harder to change, but not impossible.

 

[Sarabi]

Then I guess I was mis informed Here is a well written article on BPD + Chemical Embalance

www allaboutlifechallenges.or borderline-personality-disorder.htm

Some authorities believe, and the fact that "they do not know what causes it completely"

Im not saying its an excuse, I'm saying our loved ones need to have some degree of compassion and realize that we sometimes don't even realize what we are doing!

 

[madison1101]

Then I guess I was mis informed Here is a well written article on BPD + Chemical Embalance

www allaboutlifechallenges.or borderline-personality-disorder.htm

Some authorities believe, and the fact that "they do not know what causes it completely"

Im not saying its an excuse, I'm saying our loved ones need to have some degree of compassion and realize that we sometimes don't even realize what we are doing!

I will look at the article. I do know that I knew exactly what I was doing with every episode of acting out. I just did not believe I had a choice in what I was doing. When I flew out of control, I was like a boulder rolling downhill.

 

[madison1101]

I will look at the article. I do know that I knew exactly what I was doing with every episode of acting out. I just did not believe I had a choice in what I was doing. When I flew out of control, I was like a boulder rolling downhill.

That is the only article I have seen that says there MAY be a chemical cause for BPD. I have read numerous journal articles in graduate school that say otherwise. If it were a chemical imbalance, it would be under a different classification in the DSM-IV. Right now it is in the Personality Disorder section of that resource. Bipolar is in the section on Mood Disorders, because it has been proven that there is a chemical imbalance. Schizophrenia is in the section on Psychotic Disorders for the same reason. I know of no empirical research that supports the chemical imbalance theory. I will research further.

Trish

 

[billdoolinn]

I have high regard for anyone who can persevere for 21 years in therapy for the condition they find themselves in. Kudos! Hang in there, you're doing great. The chemical imbalance thing is not very well understood either, in fact it can complicate recovery whenever the BP decides they don't need the meds anymore and quit taking them. Makes trying to figure out what a therapist is looking at very difficult, particularly when alcohol or drugs get involved, as some of the behaviors mimic character flaws seen with drug use. It can be very difficult to distinguish and sort out. If research could pinpoint which neurotransmitter was deficient they would have an effective treatment protocol with meds. They do not and have some success attempting to moderate behaviors with singular meds or combinations, but it tends to vary from person to person and some cases is not effective at all. Unlearning a learned set of behaviors has been most successful, but the behaviors have to be recognized before they can be unlearned. That can be tricky if not impossible, especially in the heat of emotion when rage is at its peak and rage is at the core of the BP. I do think though that when it comes to forgiveness, it's most important to remember, "most only do the best they can with what they know at the time".

 

[madison1101]

I have high regard for anyone who can persevere for 21 years in therapy for the condition they find themselves in. Kudos! Hang in there, you're doing great. The chemical imbalance thing is not very well understood either, in fact it can complicate recovery whenever the BP decides they don't need the meds anymore and quit taking them. Makes trying to figure out what a therapist is looking at very difficult, particularly when alcohol or drugs get involved, as some of the behaviors mimic character flaws seen with drug use. It can be very difficult to distinguish and sort out. If research could pinpoint which neurotransmitter was deficient they would have an effective treatment protocol with meds. They do not and have some success attempting to moderate behaviors with singular meds or combinations, but it tends to vary from person to person and some cases is not effective at all. Unlearning a learned set of behaviors has been most successful, but the behaviors have to be recognized before they can be unlearned. That can be tricky if not impossible, especially in the heat of emotion when rage is at its peak and rage is at the core of the BP. I do think though that when it comes to forgiveness, it's most important to remember, "most only do the best they can with what they know at the time".

I know of no empirical research supporting the neurotransmitter theory of borderline personality disorder. However, the research for therapy supports cognitive behavioral therapy, which I have experienced, to be most effective in identifying the thinking behind the negative emotions that drive the inappropriate behaviors. It is a long term commitment, and requires a lot of trust with the therapist, which is difficult to establish in the beginning because of the fear of abandonment that most borderline patients experience. It is that fear of abandonment that drives the rage that destroys interpersonal relationships for borderlines.

 

[billdoolinn]

"we only do the best we can with what we know at the time"

 

[billdoolinn]

Antipsychotics may also be used to treat distortions in thinking and behavioral activation.

 

[_jesusfreak]

I've noticed that so much attention on this forum is directed toward borderlines and the pain that they feel, but what about the non-borderlines in their lives? Non-borderlines are at the receiving end of a very abusive relationship that the borderline dishes out.

Things like:

1) Manipulation
2) Control
3) Verbal Abuse
4) Push/Pull crazy-making

Borderlines do this and much more to others, and yet so many people want to feel more sorry for them, even though the have destructive personalities to the people around them.

nobody gets sick because they want to. people should understand that.
it's a disease like any other. no one gets cancer because they want to. no one gets bpd because they want either.
but that's just my opinion.

 

[Hand_of_Grace]

Satan causes BPD. I have it. He uses people right from childhood, without thier knowledge to build cirtain triggers that manifest most predominantly in puberty. this has been my experience.

it is a learned behaviour, but not on a conscious level. here is an example what i mean.


when i was just a small child around 7 or 8 years old, livin in northern Canada.
Winters were long and this particular year i hadthe idea to build a town out of snow.

i had a very large yard and had built up 12 little snowforts, had carved out pathways, and was almost finished the surrounding wall.

it took me weeks. to a 7 year old 3 weeks is the same as a year to an adult.

i awoke one morning to find my best friend (and only friend) had come and destroyed everything. as i stood out at the living room window i i seen my whole life that i had build p reduced to rubble in this sensless act of violence.

Istood there so shocked and dismayed. i couldnt understand why. with an acumulating sense of confusion, Satan took full advantge of this emotional vulnerability and promted rage inside. i went to his house to kick his ass.

his older brother who was exeptionaly obese, and thetown bully stood in my way.
i go back home and my parents (under the influence of Satan (or one of his minions. dont matter Satan is responsible for it. for if he had not existed, none of this would have happened.) proceeded to lightly esteem my silly project in view ot "real life"
and refused to avenge me by talking to his parents about it.

Demonic influence in the home due to my mother being involved in tarrot catds and crystals and crap, i sat on my bed that day trying to process this event. why did he do that? i couldnt think of a reason for him to be mad.

why didnt my parents do anuything about it? i wondered.

then(unbeknown to me) Satan began interpeting reality with his answers.

the answers were.... no one can help you. the world hates you and your parents dont care.

this resentment led to unruly behavior. i lost all respec for my parents. i saw my father as weak and my mother as evil.

coupled with complaining teachers at school, Satan prepared for the next phase tat would be executed in teen years. these issues lay dormant in my heart untill. then.

over th next few years other lies and unsurpings of my confidence wer re enforced by things like...my parents never went to any of my basket ball games. then didnt attend anual inspection at sea cadeta, they were not involved with me in any other way exept authporative.

these and other neglects by them were ause by satan blinding thier eyes too.
he blinded them to believe the teachers and physchologists accusations over me,

and i learned with a very strong re enforcement that i was weak and no one would help me. Rules to me becamemy enemy. they were made to deliberatley stop me and rules would force me to fail because everything i went to do was either sabotaged or against a rule.

my prents believed the world. this is no thier fault. Satan did that to them.

i hit my teen years and all these triggers and resentments pe-installed into my subconscious, all began to maniffest. like seeds that took 4 years to germiinate and now it was breaking ground.

to make a long story short i went through foster home after foster hime that would take away my clothes and strip me to my underwear and make me sit down and not spek or go to the bathroom or eat for weeks at a time without thier permission.

you know how humiliating it is for a 14 year old kid to have to ask to go t the bathroom? eing deprived of slee, have you ever heard a teenager actuall ask permissionto go to bed? and uually the answer was no. if i fell asleep on the stair they would wake me up.

other fosterhimes were in to outright wirchcraft and ouija boards. and i was a victim of ritual ause in them.

no one believed me and no one would avenge me. this is why my opinion of foster parents and the canadian government is so low.

to this very day i begin to boil with anger if i talk of these things. it is a satanic stronghold.

BPD is a satanic stronghold and can be smashed to bits!

but all you that dont have BPD can never understand how fearful it is for us to face a god we think hates us.

how hardit isfor some of us to turn to a god that wont do anything anyhow

to trust a god that wont interfere

now these were my illisuions of who god was. i was told by the world and Satan
that god is the guy that ignores you. couldnt give two [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]s about me. then the self puity would startt... and the depression and themood pills and other pharmakia... wich is also witchcraft.

rebellion is niot always a result of the individual doing witchcraft.

rebellion is a MANIFESTAION of witchcraft and these things were used on my untill i got saved when i was 26. andf even then they didn stop... they got wors. i havent even talked about attempts on my life, the beatings, the list goes on.

that was just a small insight into my life and how BPD fromed in me.

i have now minimal traces of it thanks to the real God.

from time to time though i still get over sensitive to a precieved slight, dont take critisism easy and really struggle with not being vindictive.

but they are just strongholds BPD can be overcome wth truth.

the first step is to do things for others that does not benefit you at all. selfless ness.

todo this you need to know who you really are in CHrist.

then you gotta accept that. forwhat you see is self that is completley forign to what satan subconsciously formed in the minds of others and myself.

therefore it was hard for me to accept the truth about myself. self hate was also rampant.

and even though Michael the arch angel woudlnt bring accusation against satan,
i do. Satan has lied to me. trie to kill me. foced things upon me.

and untill God deals with him,l i will jsut keep tearing down satans lies.

problem is, i end up rejecting God sometims because i think its not Him.


the circumstances i briefly covered are not me crying "victim" and those that have suffered at the hands of someone with BPD dont have it any worse. these things i srote are intended to help iothers understand how this condition forms, and where it comes from, and they are valid reasons but do not excuse the behaviors.

those still crying victim from suffering at the hands of someone with BPD you have todo the same remedies we do. tear down the strongholds and self pittty (vailid or not... they gotta go.)

and those that just want to sit there untill a leigeon of angels avenges you, here is quarter. call someone who cares.

i will close with some verses that helped me.

Joh 15:19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you

Joh 14:25These things have I spoken unto you, beingyetpresent with you.
Joh 14:26But the Comforter,which isthe Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 14:27Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Joh 16:33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

 

[cranberries]

Satan causes BPD. I have it. He uses people right from childhood, without thier knowledge to build cirtain triggers that manifest most predominantly in puberty. this has been my experience.

it is a learned behaviour, but not on a conscious level. here is an example what i mean.


when i was just a small child around 7 or 8 years old, livin in northern Canada.
Winters were long and this particular year i hadthe idea to build a town out of snow.

i had a very large yard and had built up 12 little snowforts, had carved out pathways, and was almost finished the surrounding wall.

it took me weeks. to a 7 year old 3 weeks is the same as a year to an adult.

i awoke one morning to find my best friend (and only friend) had come and destroyed everything. as i stood out at the living room window i i seen my whole life that i had build p reduced to rubble in this sensless act of violence.

Istood there so shocked and dismayed. i couldnt understand why. with an acumulating sense of confusion, Satan took full advantge of this emotional vulnerability and promted rage inside. i went to his house to kick his ass.

his older brother who was exeptionaly obese, and thetown bully stood in my way.
i go back home and my parents (under the influence of Satan (or one of his minions. dont matter Satan is responsible for it. for if he had not existed, none of this would have happened.) proceeded to lightly esteem my silly project in view ot "real life"
and refused to avenge me by talking to his parents about it.



Maybe your parents thought it would just be denied or prior arguements between the children brought up and strife between all.Maybe they wanted peace.Children that young usually get over squabbles fairly fast and go back to being friends,build more forts.I doubt your parents ever dreamed that you would harbour such anger over this for years.Children usually do not need to see revenge likethat.Typically they squabble with each other and make up and be friends again,over and over.They do not need the parents to become enemies.Children who want that can cause the parents to become alianated with friend after friend or relative after relative,because children always squabble ans usually getover the squabbles.They do things and their friends do things and they get over it.

Demonic influence in the home due to my mother being involved in tarrot catds and crystals and crap, i sat on my bed that day trying to process this event. why did he do that? i couldnt think of a reason for him to be mad.


Tarot cards and such are demonic and give the devil foot holds in peoples lives,it is wrong and destructive.

why didnt my parents do anuything about it? i wondered.

then(unbeknown to me) Satan began interpeting reality with his answers.

the answers were.... no one can help you. the world hates you and your parents dont care.


I would never guess young children to think this way,true it would hurt to see the fort wrecked,but children usually get over it,build another one,not conclude the world hates them and their parents don't care about them.

this resentment led to unruly behavior. i lost all respec for my parents. i saw my father as weak and my mother as evil.

A young child concluding his father weak and mother evil for not avenging another child wrecking a snowfort.Children just usually make up after these things.I just never knew they could have such anger and hold onto it and lose all respect for their parents.Those things happen back and force with all children and it does not usually cause such long lasting anger and conclusions and losing respect for parents,at least I never thought so.Losing all repect for parents would likely begin a path of relationship problems between child and parents and leave the parents confused as well.

coupled with complaining teachers at school, Satan prepared for the next phase tat would be executed in teen years. these issues lay dormant in my heart untill. then.

I would think or hope your parents would listen to you and the teachers and tryto make good decisions.

over th next few years other lies and unsurpings of my confidence wer re enforced by things like...my parents never went to any of my basket ball games. then didnt attend anual inspection at sea cadeta, they were not involved with me in any other way exept authporative.

Sometimes parents get too busy and that is not right and causes much pain to the child,the only way I see to get over these type things is forgiveness,that is a majorway God brings healing to hearts.Some parents if they have many children deal with just too much to do and fatigue again forgiveness can help bring healing and restoration in the relationships.Parents are not perfect,they are human.When children grow up they tend to understand more about it and the struggles when they have children.

these and other neglects by them were ause by satan blinding thier eyes too.
he blinded them to believe the teachers and physchologists accusations over me,

They must have been taking you to psychologists because they loved you and were concerned about you.Again I would think and hope they were trying to listen to you and the psyhologists and trying to make good decisions.It seems they were trying to get you help and you had already lost all respect for them ,so it wouldbe hardfor them to know how to help you.

and i learned with a very strong re enforcement that i was weak and no one would help me. Rules to me becamemy enemy. they were made to deliberatley stop me and rules would force me to fail because everything i went to do was either sabotaged or against a rule.

Your parents not doing things your way does not mean you are weak,it means they saw things differently and had to make decisions they thought were good.Rules are a neccesary part of life.

my prents believed the world. this is no thier fault. Satan did that to them.

i hit my teen years and all these triggers and resentments pe-installed into my subconscious, all began to maniffest. like seeds that took 4 years to germiinate and now it was breaking ground.

to make a long story short i went through foster home after foster hime that would take away my clothes and strip me to my underwear and make me sit down and not spek or go to the bathroom or eat for weeks at a time without thier permission.

How come you went to foster homes?Did you want to or did they make you?Or were you running away from home?Did you hate living at home?Why did they take our clothes?(the foster parents)Did they think you had drugs or weapons or were possibly suicidal or going to run away?Or do you know why?

you know how humiliating it is for a 14 year old kid to have to ask to go t the bathroom? eing deprived of slee, have you ever heard a teenager actuall ask permissionto go to bed? and uually the answer was no. if i fell asleep on the stair they would wake me up.

other fosterhimes were in to outright wirchcraft and ouija boards. and i was a victim of ritual ause in them.

That is atrocious and very grievious to hear and those people should be charged.That makes me very angry to hear.They should have been caring for you and trying to help you,not abusing you.Christian counselling and lots of prayer and people praying for you is needed.Are you getting help from a counsellor or doctor.God can and does heal the brokenhearted and having loving christian friend could be helpful,one that proved to be trust worthy and caring.I pray God totally heals you in every way and I will be praying for you.

no one believed me and no one would avenge me. this is why my opinion of foster parents and the canadian government is so low.

I am so sorry to hear that,but God knows what they did and one day they will answer to him.

to this very day i begin to boil with anger if i talk of these things. it is a satanic stronghold.

Really really reach out to God for healing and even to help you forgive all the hurt and pain from your whole childhood,even the child that wrecked your forts,ask God to heal you and help you forgive ,to reach deep in your heart and touch every huring wounded place and heal and make you whole.He can and he will and I hope he brings you a loving christian friend and counsellor or pastor if you would want that and a good trusting doctor if you would want that.I hurt for you.

BPD is a satanic stronghold and can be smashed to bits!

but all you that dont have BPD can never understand how fearful it is for us to face a god we think hates us.


That would be fearful,but God does not hate you at all,no,no,no.God loves you with an everlasting love and his mercy endures forever.God loves you so so much and cares and wants to restore you heart.

how hardit isfor some of us to turn to a god that wont do anything anyhow

to trust a god that wont interfere

God can and will heal and restore and those who hurt you will face him one day.Trust him and reach out to him.

now these were my illisuions of who god was. i was told by the world and Satan
that god is the guy that ignores you. couldnt give two [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]s about me. then the self puity would startt... and the depression and themood pills and other pharmakia... wich is also witchcraft.

rebellion is niot always a result of the individual doing witchcraft.

rebellion is a MANIFESTAION of witchcraft and these things were used on my untill i got saved when i was 26. andf even then they didn stop... they got wors. i havent even talked about attempts on my life, the beatings, the list goes on.

that was just a small insight into my life and how BPD fromed in me.

i have now minimal traces of it thanks to the real God.

from time to time though i still get over sensitive to a precieved slight, dont take critisism easy and really struggle with not being vindictive.

but they are just strongholds BPD can be overcome wth truth.


I am so sorry for what you went through,keep trusting and prayng and I will pray for you too.God does love you and he can give you healing and strength and hope and restore you,trust him.He can make your lifegood because he is good.He can bring good caring people into your life.

the first step is to do things for others that does not benefit you at all. selfless ness.

todo this you need to know who you really are in CHrist.

then you gotta accept that. forwhat you see is self that is completley forign to what satan subconsciously formed in the minds of others and myself.

therefore it was hard for me to accept the truth about myself. self hate was also rampant.

You are valuable and lovable

and even though Michael the arch angel woudlnt bring accusation against satan,
i do. Satan has lied to me. trie to kill me. foced things upon me.

I am sorry.You have gone through so much pain.

and untill God deals with him,l i will jsut keep tearing down satans lies.

problem is, i end up rejecting God sometims because i think its not Him.

The answer is to run to God,not reject him,God always protects and heals and strengthens and gives hope and help.


the circumstances i briefly covered are not me crying "victim" and those that have suffered at the hands of someone with BPD dont have it any worse. these things i srote are intended to help iothers understand how this condition forms, and where it comes from, and they are valid reasons but do not excuse the behaviors.

those still crying victim from suffering at the hands of someone with BPD you have todo the same remedies we do. tear down the strongholds and self pittty (vailid or not... they gotta go.)

and those that just want to sit there untill a leigeon of angels avenges you, here is quarter. call someone who cares.

i will close with some verses that helped me.

Joh 15:19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you

Joh 14:25These things have I spoken unto you, beingyetpresent with you.
Joh 14:26But the Comforter,which isthe Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 14:27Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Joh 16:33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Thankyou for sharing that with us and I hope you receive lots of help and receive God's comfort and hope and strength.

 

[Brazilian]

Now that I know a little more about it, I can see that not only me, but my mom, my ex-stepfather and some of my mom's sisters and nieces have either the borderline or the bipolar disorder. We all has made a lot of suffering to one another, but I'm the only one who subimmited a diagnose, recognised and seek for help. Denial is the easy way that almost everyone takes.

 

[Maple.x]

this is incredible advice. Thank you