The only begotten Son of God

[Phantasman]

Who wrote it? John when he was exiled to Patmos. There are a few theories on the book of Revelation you're right there.





No, the books were not chosen by Constantine please stop circulating this blatant, Dan Brown, falsity.

Here: The Canon of the New Testament, by F.F. Bruce
educate yourself.

Biblical


Biblical

Nice ad hominem at the end, should I take it you have nothing to respond with?

However, many modern scholars agree that Revelation was written by a separate, otherwise unknown, author, to whom they have given the name John of Patmos-WIKI

Anyones Guess. Like Hebrews and the Pastorals.

Can't find the word Trinity in any Christian scripture. It surfaced by Ignatius 70 years after Christ, and Tertullian was the real ECF to institute it.

Tertullian
Though conservative, he did originate and advance new theology to the early Church. He is perhaps most famous for being the oldest extant Latin writer to use the term Trinity (Latin, trinitas),[6] and giving the oldest extant formal exposition of a Trinitarian theology (200 AD)-WIKI

NOT Biblical, man instituted.

I don't know who Dan Brown is. I do know you haven't researched much in Biblical history. The first Biblical canon was Marcions. It had 10 of Pauls letters and Luke. No OT. No Revelations.

The dualist believes the hierarchy is Christ then his sheep (followers). The church came and wanted man to maintain a hierarchy within the church. You need to decide who your father is. Physical or spiritual. It's that easy.

 

[Edgar44]

Your Scripture twisting is admirable but no. Christ claimed that He was the only way much like YWH did in Isaiah when He said that He was the only God there is (hint). Acts tells us that Christ is the only name given under Heaven by which we can be saved. That's pretty exclusive. Also your scripture about Jesus being rejected is out of context, He was talking about the Jews who rejected Him in fulfillment of prophecy.

Scripture twisting?

Have I said that Jesus was NOT the only way? No, I did not.

But I only pasted Jesus's own words, as they are written!

John 3:12
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

John 16:12
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Do you deny those words of Jesus?

Also your scripture about Jesus being rejected is out of context, He was talking about the Jews who rejected Him in fulfillment of prophecy

Would you remind me please which scripture your referring too? I wouldn't want to make a mistake, when I give you my response.

 

[Edgar44]

. Also your scripture about Jesus being rejected is out of context, He was talking about the Jews who rejected Him in fulfillment of prophecy.

Ah, I believe your referring to my posting of the verse Luke 17:25

How it can possibly be 'out of context', when I made no comment at all about that verse.

All I did was to post the verse. Is it the verse itself which is out of context with itself??

I don't understand what you mean by saying it's out of context.

Anyway, Jesus was talking about his return.

From Luke 17:20-25, Jesus is speaking about the return of the 'Son of man', the future.

He is answering a question by the Pharisees concerning "when the kingdom of God should come".

 

[BelCantoBaptist]

However, many modern scholars agree that Revelation was written by a separate, otherwise unknown, author, to whom they have given the name John of Patmos-WIKI

Anyones Guess. Like Hebrews and the Pastorals.

*sigh* Justin Martyr [Dialogue with Trypho, p. 308] (a.d. 139–161) quotes from the Apocalypse, as John the apostle’s work, the prophecy of the millennium of the saints, to be followed by the general resurrection and judgment. This testimony of Justin is referred to also by Eusebius [Ecclesiastical History, 4.18]. Justin Martyr, in the early part of the second century, held his controversy with Trypho, a learned Jew, at Ephesus, where John had been living thirty or thirty-five years before: he says that “the Revelation had been given to John, one of the twelve apostles of Christ.”

Can't find the word Trinity in any Christian scripture. It surfaced by Ignatius 70 years after Christ, and Tertullian was the real ECF to institute it.

Tertullian
Though conservative, he did originate and advance new theology to the early Church. He is perhaps most famous for being the oldest extant Latin writer to use the term Trinity (Latin, trinitas),[6] and giving the oldest extant formal exposition of a Trinitarian theology (200 AD)-WIKI

NOT Biblical, man instituted.

1. Just because the word itself isn't in the Bible doesn't mean it's not taught. The word Bible isn't in the Bible just like the words "omniscience" which means "all-knowing," "omnipotence" which means "all-powerful," and "omnipresence" which means "present everywhere," are words not found in the Bible either, but we use them to describe the attributes of God.

2. Polycarp (70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle. Had a basic Trinitarianism. "O Lord God almighty . . . I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever" (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).

Justin Martyr (100–165) "The Father of the universe has a Son, who also being the first begotten Word of God, is even God."

http://www.theopedia.com/Development_of_Trinitarian_theology There's just the beginning. http://www.christianbook.com/the-fo...e/9781556617256/pd/17259?event=AFF&p=1011693& <- I suggest you pick up this book.

Here's more: The Trinity: A Case Study in Implicit Truth | Christian Research Institute

Did the early church affirm Jesus&#8217; deity? | the Cripplegate



3. Institute for Religious Research - The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity

Text Commentaries: Robert Bowman, Jr. (Blue Letter Bible: Trinity)


It's also biblical there's two outlines for you to study.

I don't know who Dan Brown is. I do know you haven't researched much in Biblical history. The first Biblical canon was Marcions. It had 10 of Pauls letters and Luke. No OT. No Revelations.

Thanks for the ad hominem. But no I have done research. Dan Brown is the person who re-popularized the nonsense that you're spouting here i.e Jesus isn't God, the Trinity is a conspiracy as is the Bible, etc.
EDIT: Oh and about the Canon issue: http://michaeljkruger.com/the-complete-series-10-misconceptions-about-the-nt-canon/

http://michaeljkruger.com/the-compl...t-canon-that-every-christian-should-memorize/

The dualist believes the hierarchy is Christ then his sheep (followers). The church came and wanted man to maintain a hierarchy within the church. You need to decide who your father is. Physical or spiritual. It's that easy.

[/quote]



The early apologists strongly rejected Marcionite and Gnostic dualism. You can play your psuedo history all you want. The truth is the truth. Jesus is God. The Trinity is Biblical and not some secret conspiracy theory.

 

[Phantasman]

Why are you in the Unorthodox section? To just reaffirm Catholicism? If all your going to do is quote Catholic propaganda, we may as well not waste each others time.

 

[Edgar44]

Justin Martyr [/font](100&#8211;165) "The Father of the universe has a Son, who also being the first begotten Word of God, is even God."

When using a quote, you must keep as is. the part 'is even God' is placed further in the passage;

I understand you did change the colour to red, but still, you do not quote from someone, without that quote matching exactly.

Tut, tut.

 

[Phantasman]

[/size][/font]

Aren't you being just a tiny bit naughty here, by adding your own words to this extract.

I understand you did change the colour to red, but still, you do not quote from someone, then add your own words into that 'QUOTE'.

Tut, tut.

I'm getting to think it's just another "what ever it takes to make me right" thing. I can't get an open mind here.

 

[BelCantoBaptist]

Why are you in the Unorthodox section? To just reaffirm Catholicism? If all your going to do is quote Catholic propaganda, we may as well not waste each others time.

Catholic propaganda? seriously? There is none so blind as those who will not see. You now have solid evidence and you refuse examine it and be proved wrong so you run.

Aren't you being just a tiny bit naughty here, by adding your own words to this extract.

I understand you did change the colour to red, but still, you do not quote from someone, then add your own words into that 'QUOTE'.

Tut, tut.

I'm getting to think it's just another "what ever it takes to make me right" thing. I can't get an open mind here.

I didn't add any words I just colored the words. Here's a link to the writing.
ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

 

[Edgar44]

I didn't add any words I just colored the words. Here's a link to the writing.
ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

You are correct, and I apologise, you did not add any words, and I already corrected my mistake.

But you made the error of not quoting exactly as is. This is wrong, and should never be done.

Again, I apologise for saying you added your own words.

 

[Phantasman]

Catholic propaganda? seriously? There is none so blind as those who will not see. You now have solid evidence and you refuse examine it and be proved wrong so you run.





I didn't add any words I just colored the words. Here's a link to the writing.
ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

The Apostolic Fathers? Justin Martyr? Irenaus? What part of Catholic are you missing? LOL. Against all Heresies. Not Catholic propaganda?

Maybe you need to go to the New Advent site and see where all of this has been coming from.

Where does bishops and priests originate in Christs church? Not with Christ. They killed him.

 

[BelCantoBaptist]

The Apostolic Fathers? Justin Martyr? Irenaus? What part of Catholic are you missing? LOL. Against all Heresies. Not Catholic propaganda?

Maybe you need to go to the New Advent site and see where all of this has been coming from.

Where does bishops and priests originate in Christs church? Not with Christ. They killed him.

Just because the Reformation happened doesn't mean that everything the Catholic church ever did is wrong. The Reformation happened because the Reformers felt that the RCC got away from the roots of the Christian faith because of the whole indulgence, Vicar of Christ, Mary, Purgatory, Trnasubstantiation thing. The Reformer's were not Gnostics. In fact they strongly rejected Gnosticism.

 

[Alithis]

However, many modern scholars agree that Revelation was written by a separate, otherwise unknown, author, to whom they have given the name John of Patmos-WIKI

Anyones Guess. Like Hebrews and the Pastorals.

Can't find the word Trinity in any Christian scripture. It surfaced by Ignatius 70 years after Christ, and Tertullian was the real ECF to institute it.

Tertullian
Though conservative, he did originate and advance new theology to the early Church. He is perhaps most famous for being the oldest extant Latin writer to use the term Trinity (Latin, trinitas),[6] and giving the oldest extant formal exposition of a Trinitarian theology (200 AD)-WIKI

NOT Biblical, man instituted.

I don't know who Dan Brown is. I do know you haven't researched much in Biblical history. The first Biblical canon was Marcions. It had 10 of Pauls letters and Luke. No OT. No Revelations.

The dualist believes the hierarchy is Christ then his sheep (followers). The church came and wanted man to maintain a hierarchy within the church. You need to decide who your father is. Physical or spiritual. It's that easy.

lol did you just quote hear-say off wiki?

 

[Phantasman]

Just because the Reformation happened doesn't mean that everything the Catholic church ever did is wrong. The Reformation happened because the Reformers felt that the RCC got away from the roots of the Christian faith because of the whole indulgence, Vicar of Christ, Mary, Purgatory, Trnasubstantiation thing. The Reformer's were not Gnostics. In fact they strongly rejected Gnosticism.

They estimate that Christs teachings brought about close to 50 Gospels. There were 12 Disciples that went out. Yet the Catholics chose 4 Gospels (and destroyed anything else, whether Christ taught it or not) and chose to follow Peter as the only one who passed on the Holy Spirit by "laying of hands".

The term Gnostic is 17th century. The early "Gnostics" were those who sought experiential spiritual knowledge through gnosis (knowledge). It was attacked by Ireneaus.

It's not a right or wrong thing. It's about control and freedom, ignorance and knowledge.

William Tyndale translated and published the first English Bible, translating it from the NT Greek rather than the Codex Vaticanus Latin.

The hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church did not approve of some of the words and phrases introduced by Tyndale, such as "overseer", where it would have been understood as "bishop", "elder" for "priest", and "love" rather than "charity". Tyndale, citing Erasmus, contended that the Greek New Testament did not support the traditional Roman Catholic readings. More controversially, Tyndale translated the Greek "ekklesia", (literally "called out ones"[42]) as "congregation" rather than "Church".[43] It has been asserted this translation choice "was a direct threat to the Church's ancient—but so Tyndale here made clear, non-scriptural—claim to be the body of Christ on earth. To change these words was to strip the Church hierarchy of its pretensions to be Christ's terrestrial representative, and to award this honour to individual worshipers who made up each congregation."[43] -WIKI


His church reward?

In 1536 he was convicted of heresy and executed by strangulation, after which his body was burnt at the stake.

To me, he was a martyr. Without him, you may still be following Priests who only speak in Latin (like legaleeze)

Even John Wycliffe who translated the Bible earlier into English, had his dead bones dug up 30 years after he died by the Pope and burned.

Control.

 

[Norah63]

Jesus Christ the only begotten son of God.
Isn't that the most awesome blessing we can every have?
To know that God cared enough for us to have His Son come and be among us.
What love the Father has for us.
What if there were no religions to confound our communion?

 

[Edgar44]

One day, the 'need' for religion will pass away.

Had there not been a 'fall of man', mankind would never have required religion. Religion exists for the reason of restoring us back to God.

When mankind does at last return to God, then will religion come to an end.

 

[RBPerry]

It's not a right or wrong thing. It's about control and freedom, ignorance and knowledge.

That is so true. I personally believe the Gnostic believers had a lot to offer. Wouldn't you love to know what scrolls the Catholic church has hidden.

 

[Der Alte]

The Apostolic Fathers? Justin Martyr? Irenaus? What part of Catholic are you missing? LOL. Against all Heresies. Not Catholic propaganda?

Maybe you need to go to the New Advent site and see where all of this has been coming from.

Where does bishops and priests originate in Christs church? Not with Christ. They killed him.

I am not RCC so I don't really have a dog in this fight but there was no "Catholic Church" with a Pope in Rome in charge until 1375. At that time Hildebrand the bishop of Rome, unilaterally issued 27 Dictatus Papae, i.e. Dictates of the Pope. He took the name Gregory VII, usurped control of the entire church and made himself the head of the church. Prior to that the bishop of Rome had no more authority than any other presiding bishop.

Here are a few of those dictates. Note my source is Fordham University not Wiki.

7. That for him alone is it lawful, according to the needs of the time, to make new laws, to assemble together new congregations, to make an abbey of a canonry; and, on the other hand, to divide a rich bishopric and unite the poor ones.
8. That he alone may use the imperial insignia.
9. That of the pope alone all princes shall kiss the feet.
10. That his name alone shall be spoken in the churches.
11. That this is the only name in the world.
12. That it may be permitted to him to depose emperors.

Internet History Sourcebooks Project​