The Great Tribulation Is Going On Now...

[Jeshurun30]

Ok. So the great tribulation is going on now. This consists of the god of fortresses, Satan being worshipped in the churches and around the world in many different forms. In the name of "God", the world worships demons, and turns true Christians out of the church to make them homeless and alone, in hopes of tearing down the construction of God's Word in their lives.

This has been going on for only God knows how long. But if you read the Book of Daniel, you can see that he discovered by the words of Jeremiah when the end would be. I don't presume to know, but I believe we have at least a hundred years before Christ's return. This is becasue Daniel first was told that there would be 2,300 days (years) after the abomination made the holy place desolate. At the end of Daniel, the days are shortened and it becomes 1,290 and blessed is he who can wait until the 1,335th day (year) after the abomination makes the holy place desolate.

Since history does not make it possible for me to know when it all began, I cannot know the year He will return, but I can deduce that there is yet time. The end indeed is not yet.

But that is a good, not bad. It means we have time to get people saved and meet true Christians who do not blaspheme and actually WANT to serve God.

No one knows the time of the end, and it is soon, but not as soon as some may think. Even though we want our suffering to end now, it is good to know that God will bring us through whatever we have to go through if we can be patient and have faith.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

but I believe we have at least a hundred years before Christ's return. This is becasue Daniel first was told that there would be 2,300 days (years) after the abomination made the holy place desolate. At the end of Daniel, the days are shortened and it becomes 1,290 and blessed is he who can wait until the 1,335th day (year) after the abomination makes the holy place desolate.

Since history does not make it possible for me to know when it all began, I cannot know the year He will return, but I can deduce that there is yet time.

History states that it began 6000 years ago. I was reading this chapter of Daniel today, but i dont know what it means.
I understand the abomination to have been set up, some time shortly before the sacking of Rome, (cant remenmber exectly when) which would make it in the period..
30-70 AD.
I cant work out the numbers, as i dont know what they mean, it is very cryptic.
Perhaps someone else could have a go.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Can you show me the scripture that says one day equals one year?

It's interesting to me that Ezek 39 describes a seven year time period for Israel to burn the weapons, 7 months of which is for burying the dead. 2300 days is 7 months and 10 days short of seven years (using a 360-day year). This is the only other mention of 2300 days that I'm aware of in the Bible...and it may be a bit of a stretch.


Also, if you add the 1290 and the 1335 together, it's 2625 days which is a total of 3 1/2 months beyond 7 years (360-day years). One month is added to 1260 to make up the 1290 and 2 1/2 months are added to 1260 to make the 1335.

So, why? 3 1/2 months is significant, in my opinion, because of all of the 3 1/2 - 42 months - time/times/half a time - 1260 days references both in Revelation and Daniel. All of them are half of SEVEN.

Furthermore, the only way that the 3 1/2 is significant is if the 1290 and the 1335 are kept separate...as in separate time periods, because if they are not separated, then the 1290 would then be part of the 1335. 1335 is only 2 1/2 months beyond 1260.

I think they are separate...which means the final week has been divided in half and a total of 3 1/2 months were added. I don't know why the 3 1/2 months were added. Maybe each time period has an extra month added in like they have to do occasionally since 360-day years aren't absolutely accurate? Maybe there are events outside of 1260 days that are included in each time period? I don't know.

It's interesting to ponder...but I don't think that we can take Daniel's 2300/1290/1335 days and say they are years BECAUSE it has been proven that the 70 sevens represent years, therefore the final seven represents seven years, which makes the 1290/1335 to be actual days.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

I've made the mistake with revelation in interpreting the numbers literally, if this is the same in Daniel chapter 12, then the number 3.5 which you'v found to be significant (too complicated for me).. seems to me this is the link with the symbolic 3.5 as half of 7.. This 3.5 number is a symbolic number for the time period where God is not in the show .. number 7.
3.5 is repeated so many times in Revelation that there is only that symbolic interpretation that adds up to the true picture.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

but I believe we have at least a hundred years before Christ's return. This is becasue Daniel first was told that there would be 2,300 days (years) after the abomination made the holy place desolate. At the end of Daniel, the days are shortened and it becomes 1,290 and blessed is he who can wait until the 1,335th day (year) after the abomination makes the holy place desolate.

Since history does not make it possible for me to know when it all began, I cannot know the year He will return, but I can deduce that there is yet time.

History states that it began 6000 years ago. I was reading this chapter of Daniel today, but i dont know what it means.
I understand the abomination to have been set up, some time shortly before the sacking of Rome, (cant remenmber exectly when) which would make it in the period..
30-70 AD.
I cant work out the numbers, as i dont know what they mean, it is very cryptic.
Perhaps someone else could have a go.

Well, some suggest that the abomination of desolation referred to Epiphanes but that can't be in reference to Daniel 9 because THAT happened about 100 years before Christ and Jesus spoke of the abomination of desolation as future from His perspective in the first century.

Yes, very cryptic.

You'll find that I can be sort of a stickler when it comes to what the scripture actually says (I expect others to hold me to the same standard)...and this is a good example:

Dan 12:6And [one] said to the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, How long [shall it be to] the end of these wonders?

Dan 12:7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished.

Dan 12:8And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what [shall be] the end of these [things]?

Dan 12:9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Dan 12:10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Dan 12:11And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Dan 12:12Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


Technically, the angel told Daniel from the time the sacrifice is taken away/abom of desolation, there shall be 1290 days. And then what? Is that the end of the age, the end of the war, the end of the city/sanctuary?
It can't be the end of the age because the angel then mentions 1335 days, which is longer than 1290.
It could be the end of the war/end of the city/sanctuary...and Daniel 9 appears to confirm it.

Then, it says blessed is he that waits and comes to the 1335 days. There are many references in Revelation to "patient endurance" on the part of the saints during the 42 month reign of the anti-christ/false prophet.

Remember, I'm just speculating/thinking...take it or leave it.

 

[Jeshurun30]

Ok. So what I'm saying is that the temple was desecrated in 70 A.D. IF you DO consider the 1290 to be years, like they are interpreted with the 490 evening mornings before Christ came since the wall was built in Jerusalem after the captivity in Babylon, then that means, we have at least about 150 years left.

I WANT Christ to come back tomorrow, but I don't think it's happening.

I don't know though. I just tried myself to discover this because Daniel is a perfect example of everything believers need to know in the End. For example, it depicts people being captive in Babylon. It depicts suffering death for faith, when God protects them out of it. If predicts a man who has everything (Nebuchadnezzar) going crazy, losing it all, only to be restored at the end, and having his subject RESORT back to him. It ALSO shows that Daniel found by fasting and prayer the exact time when God was bringing the captives back to their land. I believe this is significant. The Bible clearly states we will never know the day or hour. But I believe we can deduce it by studying the Scriputures, and know the general time frame.

And from my own spiritual searching, I believe we have a long time yet. That is just my opinion. Take is or leave it.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Ok. So what I'm saying is that the temple was desecrated in 70 A.D. IF you DO consider the 1290 to be years, like they are interpreted with the 490 evening mornings before Christ came since the wall was built in Jerusalem after the captivity in Babylon, then that means, we have at least about 150 years left.

Hmmm...well, what if the 1290 days is how long it took from the desolation until the end of the war where the city/sanctuary was destroyed and the people dispersed?.....followed by an unknown gap (likely about 2000 years to allow the church to come in) which we are currently nearing the end of....followed by 1335 days.

[70 + 1290 = 1360 + 490? = 1850 + 150 = 2000]?

I WANT Christ to come back tomorrow, but I don't think it's happening.

I don't know though. I just tried myself to discover this because Daniel is a perfect example of everything believers need to know in the End. For example, it depicts people being captive in Babylon. It depicts suffering death for faith, when God protects them out of it. If predicts a man who has everything (Nebuchadnezzar) going crazy, losing it all, only to be restored at the end, and having his subject RESORT back to him. It ALSO shows that Daniel found by fasting and prayer the exact time when God was bringing the captives back to their land. I believe this is significant. The Bible clearly states we will never know the day or hour. But I believe we can deduce it by studying the Scriputures, and know the general time frame.

I agree that we can deduce the general time frame because SO MANY signs were given.

And from my own spiritual searching, I believe we have a long time yet. That is just my opinion. Take is or leave it.

And you could very well be right. Personally, I think it's the gap that is cut short between the 1290 and the 1335...and can prove it Scripturally with Matt 24 and Rev 6.

But that gap COULD continue up to 2070. I don't think it will. I think it will be cut short very soon...within months to a few years...by the time Israel turns 70, a change will come.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

I read a while back a record of the history of the prophesy, of the 70 weeks, but i forget now, but it seemed that it was to do with the final days of the Hebrew era, before the sack of Rome, when one of the Herod's brought the Roman stuff into the temple. That was the abomination, and also when the sacrifice stopped for good.

 

[Desperaux]

Even though we want our suffering to end now,

We aren't suffering now.

 

[Brad2009]

One thing that has occured to me that the 'abomination which causes desolation' could be would be a nuclear bomb on the temple mount. Its sure an abomination, definitely causes desolation and those in Judea had certainly best flee. Just a thought, tho, and I want to emphasize that the Holy Spirit has not given my any special vision to indicate that I'm right.

 

[Desperaux]

"Abomination" is something hateful, not necessarily destructive. It will be an utterly unholy desecration of a holy place.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

"Abomination" is something hateful, not necessarily destructive. It will be an utterly unholy desecration of a holy place.

Or, it WAS an utterly unholy desecration of a holy place:

Ezek 8:16And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

 

[Desperaux]

Or, it WAS an utterly unholy desecration of a holy place:

Ezek 8:16And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

It hasn't happened yet.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

It hasn't happened yet.

So, you're saying that Israel hasn't been desolated, dispersed to the nations, their city/sanctuary destroyed...yet? What happened to them in 66-70AD? Haven't they been desolated since then?

 

[Desperaux]

So, you're saying that Israel hasn't been desolated, dispersed to the nations, their city/sanctuary destroyed...yet? What happened to them in 66-70AD? Haven't they been desolated since then?

That was prophesied, but it isn't THE focus of the prophecy of Jesus, who was speaking of the signs of the END. Obviously that was the BEGINNING.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

That was prophesied, but it isn't THE focus of the prophecy of Jesus, who was speaking of the signs of the END. Obviously that was the BEGINNING.

The beginning of what?

Hosea 6 talks about Israel being revived after two days, restored on the 3rd.

Micah 5 talks about Israel being abandoned until "she who is in labor gives birth".

Romans 11 talks about Israel being blinded until the full number of gentiles comes into the church.

Jesus was speaking about what leads up to the end and the desolation of Israel was a BIG part of that.

 

[unbreakablelight]

if you think this is tribulation just wait! and I am preparing myself mentally to face it and I suggest all those who hold to a pre-trib rapture do the same

you could be wrong...

 

[HisdaughterJen]

if you think this is tribulation just wait! and I am preparing myself mentally to face it and I suggest all those who hold to a pre-trib rapture do the same

you could be wrong...

Sure, I could be wrong, but Jesus can't be wrong.

He said in Matt 24 that "the tribulation" follows the desolation of Israel and is cut short, followed by the false christs/false prophets/false miracles.

1. desolation
THEN
2. tribulation
3. tribulation cut short
THEN
4. false christs/false prophets/false miracles

Therefore, "the tribulation" as defined by Christ, does NOT include the anti-christ/false prophet/false miracles which are part of the time of WRATH.

 

[unbreakablelight]

I believe when God says those days will be cut short hes referring to our hastening

by discussing and praying for the end of this world we are shortening the days

and its been like that since Jesus walked on this earth, every generation has had those who were eager for Jesus to return

2 Peter 3

12looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

James 5

16Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.
17Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the earth for three years and six months.
18Then he prayed again, and the sky poured rain and the earth produced its fruit.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I believe when God says those days will be cut short hes referring to our hastening

by discussing and praying for the end of this world we are shortening the days

and its been like that since Jesus walked on this earth, every generation has had those who were eager for Jesus to return

2 Peter 3

12looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

James 5

16Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.
17Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the earth for three years and six months.
18Then he prayed again, and the sky poured rain and the earth produced its fruit.

Jesus said that when the tribulation ends, the sun/moon darken (6th seal).

If you look at the scriptures that describe what is going on when the sun/moon darken (Joel 2), you'd see that the tribulation is cut short because of a massive invasion of Israel by Northern armies.

They are destroyed by hail, fire, and blood which is the 1st trumpet of the 7th seal. (ezek 38/Rev 8)