The difference between OT and NT

Jul 7, 2011
80
0
Columbia, NC.
✟15,190.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
>Salvation isn't dependent on us. It's God's work within us.

Exactly.
But, if you don't know the Bible, how do you let God to work within you?
I wasn't born in Christian country.
And anyone was born in Christian country and believes in Jesus because he/she was raised that way.
Both cases, it seems to me, God has very little to do with them.

However, I love to think that God already knew us who is going to believe Him when He created light, as if He can see those faces in the light.
 
Upvote 0

LilLamb219

The Lamb is gone
Site Supporter
Jun 2, 2005
28,026
1,929
Visit site
✟83,596.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
God has His own timing. You might not have been born in a Christian country, but you eventually heard God's Word. It happened in the timing that God chose.

God has everything to do with bringing His people to Him and it's not about anyone "letting" it happen.
 
Upvote 0

Royll

Newbie
Jan 22, 2011
21
1
✟15,146.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Jesus said he is the only teacher and in other scripture he says he is the Good Shepherd.
He doesn't say there are other human teachers are that there are other Good Shepherds.
What is the bible? Isn't the bible the written word of God. This is where we find our salvation from.
Which part of the bible would you find salvation for the Gentiles (us). It would be in the new testament are new covenant.

Jesus was speaking to the disciples and the crowd and he was speaking about the Pharisees and Scribes of that age but actually we have the same today.
This part here was about the Pharisees and Scribes: They were the teachers and leaders then.

Matt 23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples,
Matt 23:2 “The experts in the law and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat.
Matt 23:3 Therefore pay attention to what they tell you and do it. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they teach.
Matt 23:4 They tie up heavy loads, hard to carry, and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing even to lift a finger to move them.
Matt 23:5 They do all their deeds to be seen by people, for they make their phylacteries wide and their tassels long.
Matt 23:6 They love the place of honor at banquets and the best seats in the synagogues
Matt 23:7 and elaborate greetings in the marketplaces, and to have people call them ‘Rabbi.’

Below he changes that into where he says he is the only teacher. Is not Jesus God?

Matt 23:8 But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher and you are all brothers.
Matt 23:9 And call no one your ‘father’ on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
Matt 23:10 Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one teacher, the Christ.
Matt 23:11 The greatest among you will be your servant.
Matt 23:12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Matt 23:13 “But woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You keep locking people out of the kingdom of heaven! For you neither enter nor permit those trying to enter to go in.


Below Jesus says he is the Good Shepherd:

Look at what Jesus says in verse 9. He says if anyone enters through him, he will be saved. Does he say anything about anybody else.
Verse 16 the other sheep not in that sheepfold is us as Gentiles and we are not added into that sheepfold until after his death, burial and resurrection.

John 10:1 “I tell you the solemn truth, the one who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs in some other way, is a thief and a robber.
John 10:2 The one who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
John 10:3 The doorkeeper opens the door for him, and the sheep hear his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
John 10:4 When he has brought all his own sheep out, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they recognize his voice.
John 10:5 They will never follow a stranger, but will run away from him, because they do not recognize the stranger’s voice.”
John 10:6 Jesus told them this parable, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.
John 10:7 So Jesus said to them again, “I tell you the solemn truth, I am the door for the sheep.
John 10:8 All who came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.
John 10:9 I am the door. If anyone enters through me, he will be saved, and will come in and go out, and find pasture.
John 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come so that they may have life, and may have it abundantly.
John 10:11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
John 10:12 The hired hand, who is not a shepherd and does not own sheep, sees the wolf coming and abandons the sheep and runs away. So the wolf attacks the sheep and scatters them.
John 10:13 Because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep, he runs away.
John 10:14 “I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me –
John 10:15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father – and I lay down my life for the sheep.
John 10:16 I have other sheep that do not come from this sheepfold. I must bring them too, and they will listen to my voice, so that there will be one flock and one shepherd.
John 10:17 This is why the Father loves me – because I lay down my life, so that I may take it back again.
John 10:18 No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father.”
John 10:19 Another sharp division took place among the Jewish people because of these words.


Last I will give you what he says after his death, burial and resurrection.
The first covenant was the Law of Moses. The new covenant or testament is the covenant of grace.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, no one would have looked for a second one.
Heb 8:8 But showing its fault, God says to them, ​​​​​​“Look, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will complete a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
Heb 8:9 ​​​​​​​“It will not be like the covenant that I made with their fathers, on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not continue in my covenant and I had no regard for them, says the Lord.

Below is what he says that he will do for all believers. In this he doesn't include any one but himself.

Heb 8:10 ​​​​​​​“For this is the covenant that I will establish with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and I will inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God and they will be my people.
Heb 8:11 ​​​​​​​“And there will be no need at all for each one to teach his countryman or each one to teach his brother saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ since they will all know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 ​​​​​​​“For I will be merciful toward their evil deeds, and their sins I will remember no longer.”
Heb 8:13 When he speaks of a new covenant, he makes the first obsolete. Now what is growing obsolete and aging is about to disappear.



So the question is whether or not everybody is being saved through the scripture are through Jesus in his word?
 
Upvote 0
Jul 7, 2011
80
0
Columbia, NC.
✟15,190.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
>God has everything to do with bringing His people to Him and it's not about anyone "letting" it happen.

I must agree with this.
I was an atheist before my 30's.
And I've tried to learn Jodo-Shinshu, one of Buddhism denominations, happened to be my mother side family religion.
It teaches, believe it or not, very similar taught of Christianity.
And now, my idea of God is similar to Quaker.
I've never learned about the thought of Quaker and Inazo Nitobe who was a Quaker.
Inazo was a cousin of my father-side grandmother and married a daughter of Quakers, in late 1800's.
Inazo was baptized (probably Methodist) in Japan and came to Johns Hopkins University.
Inazo must have been disappointed with Methodist somewhat in MD., and someone must have invited him to Quaker in Philadelphia.
I used to live in N.J. and MD. and thought of Inazo a lot, however, it did not guide me to Christianity.
Well, I can write on and on about him and Quaker, but I better stop here.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Royll

Newbie
Jan 22, 2011
21
1
✟15,146.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Salvation is in the scriptures not from man.
I am working on a forum to show that salvation is in the scriptures and the main thing is that the scripture for our salvation is right there.

For example I will give you an the scripture that the people of Israel neded to believe before the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Below is what God, the Father said after Jesus was baptized:

Matt 3:16 After Jesus was baptized, just as he was coming up out of the water, the heavens opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming on him.
Matt 3:17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my one dear Son; in him I take great delight.”

Now I will use Peter answer to a question Jesus asked his disciples:

Notice in verse 14 what the disciples said people said who Jesus was and that was wrong.

Matt 16:13 When Jesus came to the area of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”
Matt 16:14 They answered, “Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

Notice here what Peter's answer was "the Son of the living God". Isn't that who Jesus said he was?

Matt 16:15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Matt 16:16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Matt 16:17 And Jesus answered him, “You are blessed, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven!
Matt 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
Matt 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever you release on earth will have been released in heaven.”
Matt 16:20 Then he instructed his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.

Below is just a few more people saying who Jesus was. Any Jew who said this and believed that Jesus was the Son Of God were being saved and became believers.

Matt 14:31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him, saying to him, “You of little faith, why did you doubt?”
Matt 14:32 When they went up into the boat, the wind ceased.
Matt 14:33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Matt 27:54 Now when the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and what took place, they were extremely terrified and said, “Truly this one was God’s Son!”

Ps 2:7 ​​​​​​​The king says, “I will announce the LORD’S decree. He said to me: ​​​​​​‘You are my son! This very day I have become your father!

John 1:49 Nathanael answered him, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel!”

So you see from the above this is all that the people of Israel needed to belive for their salvation.

Today Christians don't have it right as a matter of fact they aren't even close to what the Jews needed to believe.

Salvation for us is different then before his death, burial and resurrection. and we as Gentiles do not know and think we are saved.

I will use some scripture to show you why.

Matt 15:4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Whoever insults his father or mother must be put to death.’
Matt 15:5 But you say, ‘If someone tells his father or mother, “Whatever help you would have received from me is given to God,”
Matt 15:6 he does not need to honor his father.’ You have nullified the word of God on account of your tradition.
Matt 15:7 Hypocrites! Isaiah prophesied correctly about you when he said,

This part here is why we as Gentiles do not know Christ and aren't saved. Think about this because this is what is happening. This is the reason that there are so many different groups that say they believe in Jesus but each one has a different doctrine.

Matt 15:8 ​​​​​​​‘This people honors me with their lips, ​​​​​​but their heart is far from me,
Matt 15:9 ​​​​​​​and they worship me in vain, ​​​​​​teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”


I think I have said enough.
 
Upvote 0
Jul 7, 2011
80
0
Columbia, NC.
✟15,190.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
>Salvation for us is different then before his death, burial and resurrection.

Exactly!!!
I wonder how many realize this?
None of disciples followed the death of Jesus, after seeing those massive miracles by Jesus. - Mark 14:50
The Bible teaches me (probably only me?) what happened in the past, it's happening now and it will happen in the future. Because the truth is never changed.
So human never believe in Jesus by seeing a miracle. - John 20:29

The Baptism of Jesus should have different meanings before His death and after.

>and we as Gentiles do not know and think we are saved.

Only God knows who will be saved, I assume too.
However, what would you like to say with the words above, if I can ask?
 
Upvote 0
Jul 7, 2011
80
0
Columbia, NC.
✟15,190.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If I myself have the assurance of salvation - I am not talking about the fact of salvation, but weather the fact saved me or not - then I can tell others how they will be saved.
I know I will be saved, if my heart is with God's, and I believe so because God gave me faith to believe.
 
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
The difference between the two has many points. One being the dispensation of time and history of man and his relationship with god. In the old testament it teaches us how to walk in his will through examples of his people that he has written about. I'm not trying to over simplify but the depth of the OT is so diverse in writing that a lifetime of study could be done and you would just scratch the surface.for example the prophetic books the poetry the history they are diverse yet they all are relevant today and they are all pointing to christ. I personally believe one should study both in order to fully comprehend the gospel reference 2 nd Timothy 3:16 all scripture is given by inspiration of god and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
On gentiles salvation in old testament. I would point out just one common cliche about rahab who was a gentile that believed and was in the linnage of christ.The old testament gives us insight on the mind of god and his will for us.Reading alone and memorized verse will not always enhance our knowlage of him.The scribes and phrasies studied a
ll their life and didn't recognize god standing before them.
 
Upvote 0
Jul 7, 2011
80
0
Columbia, NC.
✟15,190.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The difference between the two has many points. One being the dispensation of time and history of man and his relationship with god. In the old testament it teaches us how to walk in his will through examples of his people that he has written about. I'm not trying to over simplify but the depth of the OT is so diverse in writing that a lifetime of study could be done and you would just scratch the surface.for example the prophetic books the poetry the history they are diverse yet they all are relevant today and they are all pointing to christ. I personally believe one should study both in order to fully comprehend the gospel reference 2 nd Timothy 3:16 all scripture is given by inspiration of god and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
Thank you now faith for your comment.

I was moved by it and even encourage me to read the OT to widen my knowledge of the NT.

I was told before how important to read the OT, I admit I was only scratching the OT, to understand love of God deeper, some one said the OT is a love letter from God to us.

I agree all that, however, if the OT is all pointing to christ, then why some people who believe the OT don't believe in Jesus Christ?

I think that God of the OT and God of the NT are the same one, but not for Judaism.
And isn't that the reason Jesus came here for?

I must tell you this- I agree all you said in your comment, but again why those people believe in God in the OT are reluctant to believe in Jesus as God after 2 thousand years?

Perhaps, I need to read the whole Bible, but what I'd get out of it?
After all the most important thing for me is love of God or heart of God.

Those Gospels teach me that only with thousands of words.
To tell you truth, I don't have much knowledge of both Bible, I have been reading the same part of the Bible again and again.
Because, once in a great while I get some enlightenment from... (I think) Holy Spirit.
I might write about it some day.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Aibrean

Honest. Maybe too Honest.
Mar 18, 2007
6,298
345
40
Xenia, Ohio
Visit site
✟15,879.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
You mentioned wanting to read the entire bible from cover to cover...please do it. It will be well worth your while and you'll be able to really see why God did the things He did to build up His kingdom :)

Amen to that.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Jul 7, 2011
80
0
Columbia, NC.
✟15,190.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You mentioned wanting to read the entire bible from cover to cover...please do it. It will be well worth your while and you'll be able to really see why God did the things He did to build up His kingdom :)

I think you are right.
On the other hand, I can't help thinking why there are so many different ideas about the Bible.
The more you get to know, the more you get to be confused.

It took me almost 30 years to think about the words of the Bible (mainly Gospel s - I tend to believe in only what Jesus said and no human being.) what I have now and the idea is all based on the words of the Book and spirit.
 
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Their are many documented cases in which people have come to know christ through the ot Many have set out to disprove him and found themselves repenting.Muslim and Jewish people more than most.both share the same acknowledgment of the Pentateuch {the first five books} what they discover is that the prophecy of christ is undeniable. For one man to fulfill just twenty prophecies the odds would be enumerable let alone all of them.The bible is the living word of god in it is our path to life eternal.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Jul 7, 2011
80
0
Columbia, NC.
✟15,190.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Their are many documented cases in which people have come to know christ through the ot Many have set out to disprove him and found themselves repenting.Muslim and Jewish people more than most.both share the same acknowledgment of the Pentateuch {the first five books} what they discover is that the prophecy of christ is undeniable. For one man to fulfill just twenty prophecies the odds would be enumerable let alone all of them.The bible is the living word of god in it is our path to life eternal.

I agree with you, 100%.
However, they do not recognize Jesus as God.
I believe I've suggested Judaism people convert to Christians in previous comment of mine.
And vice versa, which I did not write.
 
Upvote 0