The difference between OT and NT

[Doubting Tomas]

The only reason christianity exists is because the Jews did not accept Jesus as Messiah. If they had done then there would have been no need for God to adopt the gentiles into His family.
If you do not think Jehovah in the OT is the same God as refered to in the rest of the bible then who do you think it is referring to? It would appear to me you have been given the answer but because it does not agree with yours you are rejecting it.

>The only reason christianity exists is because the Jews did not accept Jesus as Messiah.

I need to know more what did you mean by this.
Did you mean that Judaism exists because Jewish did not accept Jesus as Messiah?

>If they had done then there would have been no need for God to adopt the gentiles into His family.

This is different from John 1:12.

>If you do not think Jehovah in the OT is the same God as refered to in the rest of the bible then who do you think it is referring to?

I've written before that God must be the same one in OT and NT.
It's only logical, too.
Then why it is so different?
If I don't understand it, it's my fault not God, still the question remains.

>It would appear to me you have been given the answer but because it does not agree with yours you are rejecting it.

I don't know which answer you are referring to, but if an answer without reason was given, I don't have a way to agree with.
Obviously, you agree with the answer, so it must be easy to accept it.

I've learned to accept the Bible as is in my heart, therefore my understanding of it could be different from Christians go to Churches every Sunday or listen to tv evangelists.
No offence to any one at there, but I do not believe what people says about the Bible, I have to read it myself with help of Holy Spirit, otherwise it's nothing but a brain-wash.
Trust me on this one, it happened to me.

I may have rejected good advice even ones given by Holy Spirit too many times in the past, but I'd like to believe that God says, "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee", until I become a true Christian some day, just like Jesus said to Thomas in John 20:29.
I love this part, still I get a chill when I read it.
I don't have to see Him or His miracles to believe.
(It doesn't matter whether God exists there or not, as long as anyone have it in their hearts.)

However, I do not like to believe whatever I like to believe, because the world of God is not about what I think, but what God thinks.
Though, that's what I am doing and I assume that's what you are doing.
The best way to correct that is asking the Holy Spirit to guide me to God's way when I read the Bible and when I think of God.

 

[Aibrean]

Why would the Holy Spirit tell you that there isn't a God? One has to believe fully that there is one which is why an agnostic can't be a Christian. To deny God is to deny Jesus because Jesus is God. If you "accept the Bible", you must believe in those principles.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

I honestly could not say I know God.

"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." (John 17:3)

 

[Doubting Tomas]

"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." (John 17:3)

I've never met with God.
Without the Bible, I am lost and I don't know nothing about God.
Do you know Him?
Honestly do you know Him completely?

I've met a few preachers in my local area, and they told me that if some one believe hard enough that come true, include he can name who can go to heaven.
Can they tell who can go to heaven?
I doubt it.
No one knows God that good, now I am not denying that possibility because simply I don't know anything about whom God condemn.
I must have an attitude humble to my belief of Jesus and obey his heart. (Jesus is my God, and I like to think He is not my master but my friend I obey. My friend died for my sin, so I can live free from sin. He commands me nothing to obey Him but wait for me. Since He died for us, why do we human have to die for Him? I am thinking, did whole Christian world misunderstood His taught?)

To get know God's heart is my number one priority and then eternal life if shall be given.


Luckily I found in the Bible, " no one has ever seen God." John 4:12
the Bible tells truth, so did,so will.
The first time and the second time when I felt the existence of Holy Spirit, I was confused it with Jesus or God.
So, I thought I could see Jesus any time soon.
God did not appear me, rather the feeling was faded away.

Still I receive enlightenment from Holy Spirit once in a great while, and the spine-chilling sensation doesn't last long any more.
The truth comes from Holy Spirit, not inside of my heart.
Holy Spirit can change anytime what I think true or my emotion says it's true.

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

Aren't we talking about the same thing, SoldierOfSoul?

 

[Aibrean]

Hebrews 11

1Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2For by it the people of old received their commendation. 3By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

The reference in John is to God the Father. The Bible tells us that even though we haven't seen God, we can still be assured that he is real. It's part of having faith.

 

[LilLamb219]

You are very correct Doubting Tomas that no one here on earth knows God completely, for He only reveals to us what is written in scriptures by His Word. And as Aibrean pointed out, it is by faith that we trust in Him (that He exists, that He saves us, that He will come again so that we may have eternal life).

 

[Doubting Tomas]

You are very correct Doubting Tomas that no one here on earth knows God completely, for He only reveals to us what is written in scriptures by His Word. And as Aibrean pointed out, it is by faith that we trust in Him (that He exists, that He saves us, that He will come again so that we may have eternal life).

Amen.

 

[now faith]

Ariban I don't want to nit pic but the king James Hebrews 11 states now faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen.I'm not against other translation unless it changes the intent of the writing. Assurance and substance have different meaning as do conviction and evidence. Im not trying to impose my belief just point out how a slight change in a few words can create a different meaning of a verse.

 

[Royll]

Doubting Tomas

You are so correct as long as man continue to disobey God (Jesus) as he told the Pharisees and scribes before his death, burial and resurrection and the same thing is going on today by the clergy or ordained clergy system

Below is what Jesus said when he was here on eart as Immanuel which means "God with us". The with us part means the people of Israel not us as gentiles. The people of Israel were the only ones who knew God (Jesus) at that time. We as Gentiles didn't know God are God know us until after the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Matt 15:3 Jesus replied, “And why do you, by your traditions, violate the direct commandments of God?
Matt 15:4 For instance, God says, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’
Matt 15:5 But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’
Matt 15:6 In this way, you say they don’t need to honor their parents. And so you cancel the word of God for the sake of your own tradition.
Matt 15:7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote,
Matt 15:8 ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
Matt 15:9 Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’”

I am not allowed to post links so I will give you part of the information on man-made ideas as commands from God.

The part below about the beliefs of the Church of England in the ordained clergy are man- made ideas.

James gave the translators instructions intended to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology and reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and its beliefs about an ordained clergy.[9] The translation was by 47 scholars, all of whom were members of the Church of England.[10] In common with most other translations of the period, the New Testament was translated from Greek, the Old Testament was translated from Hebrew text, while the Apocrypha were translated from the Greek and Latin.

This is where I got this information from to show that I didn't make it up.
Authorized King James Version From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Compare the above scripture to what God says in Hebrews.

Heb 8:10 But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day, says the LORD: I will put my laws in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
Heb 8:11 And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, ‘You should know the LORD.’ For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already.
Heb 8:12 And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins.”
Heb 8:13 When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

If you note verse 11 God says they will not need to teach their neighbor, nor will they need to teach their relatives and you can read the rest.

This means that no man shall teach another because we will all know him. In other words he will teach us who are true believers. How does he teach us because once we become believers we are given the following.

2Cor 1:18 But as God is faithful, our message to you is not “Yes” and “No.”
2Cor 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, the one who was proclaimed among you by us – by me and Silvanus and Timothy – was not “Yes” and “No,” but it has always been “Yes” in him.
2Cor 1:20 For every one of God’s promises are “Yes” in him; therefore also through him the “Amen” is spoken, to the glory we give to God.
2Cor 1:21 But it is God who establishes us together with you in Christ and who anointed us,
2Cor 1:22 who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a down payment.

Where not Paul and the other Apostles believers in Jesus Christ so they weregiven the same Holy Spirit. Did not all the Jewish believers who were gathered at Pentecost given the Holy Spirit also.


We are Gentiles so we are also given the Holy Spirit so why do we need man when as believers we are given the Holy Spirit to guide and teach us.

Eph 1:11 Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan.
Eph 1:12 God’s purpose was that we Jews who were the first to trust in Christ would bring praise and glory to God.
Eph 1:13 And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago.
Eph 1:14 The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him.

 

[Aibrean]

Ariban I don't want to nit pic but the king James Hebrews 11 states now faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen.I'm not against other translation unless it changes the intent of the writing. Assurance and substance have different meaning as do conviction and evidence. Im not trying to impose my belief just point out how a slight change in a few words can create a different meaning of a verse.

KJV is not the only translation in the world. It is certainly not the oldest, nor is it perfect (it has been revised several times). I wasn't saying anything that can't be found in other parts of the Bible. I used ESV, btw. The meaning in its context is not different.

 

[Royll]

Ariban I don't want to nit pic but the king James Hebrews 11 states now faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen.I'm not against other translation unless it changes the intent of the writing. Assurance and substance have different meaning as do conviction and evidence. Im not trying to impose my belief just point out how a slight change in a few words can create a different meaning of a verse.

now faith,
that is odd how most people are King James Bible believers but no matter which Bible that you read they are all translated from the Greek language in the New Testament so the meaning should be the same with out having to look up the definitions of certain words or comparing them. As I use the NLT, the ESV, The REB and various other ones and have found out that there is one that doesn't come into agreement with any except for the Catholic Vulgate which most of it was copied after.

And as all the Greek translated to English should be simple to read with out as I said trying to compare the meanings behind the words.

 

[Doubting Tomas]

>Eph 1:13 And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago.

Amen
It's me.
It fits perfect to me.
I wrote before, "When God created light, He saw the faces and names of every one come to the light., one of them was mine."

The first thing God created after the heavens and the earth was light in Genesis.
And God separated light from darkness.
This is a symbolic event, Light is good and darkness is bad.
And this was good enough for me to believe in Christianity, who wants to believe in bad?
Of course, I don't mean I am always good, but I want to be good.

 

[Royll]

>Eph 1:13 And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago.

Doubting Tomas,
To be saved and receive the Holy Spirit, there is some scripture in the Epistles that tells us that if we stand in it and memorize it we are being saved. This is what we must believe to receive the promise.

The reason I don't give it right now is they will say that I am proselyting which I am not. There were two types of proselytes and they were the gate proselytes who live outside the Jewish communities and the religious who were the ones who paid to be converted into the Jewish faith and I am not trying to convert anyone just show the truth through the scriptures because that is how you are taught.

First I go by what God (Jesus) said to the devout Jew Ananias in Acts 9:

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said, “Go, for Saul is my chosen instrument to take my message to the Gentiles and to kings, as well as to the people of Israel.
Acts 9:16 And I will show him how much he must suffer for my name’s sake.”

Jesus did not have his original disciples/Apostles take his message to us the Gentiles.

Notice who Jesus said he was sent to.

Matt 15:24 Then Jesus said to the woman, “I was sent only to help God’s lost sheep—the people of Israel.”

His instructions to his disciples where to the same people.
Matt 10:5 Jesus sent out the twelve apostles with these instructions: “Don’t go to the Gentiles or the Samaritans,
Matt 10:6 but only to the people of Israel—God’s lost sheep.
Matt 10:7 Go and announce to them that the Kingdom of Heaven is near.
Matt 10:8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cure those with leprosy, and cast out demons. Give as freely as you have received!

Being obedient to God (Jesus) the disciples/Apostles did exactly as instructed.


Paul even says he is the Apostle to us the Gentiles.

Rom 11:13 I am saying all this especially for you Gentiles. God has appointed me as the apostle to the Gentiles. I stress this,
Rom 11:14 for I want somehow to make the people of Israel jealous of what you Gentiles have, so I might save some of them.
Rom 11:15 For since their rejection meant that God offered salvation to the rest of the world, their acceptance will be even more wonderful. It will be life for those who were dead!
Rom 11:16 And since Abraham and the other patriarchs were holy, their descendants will also be holy—just as the entire batch of dough is holy because the portion given as an offering is holy. For if the roots of the tree are holy, the branches will be, too.

Look at what Paul says in verse 14.

Again Paul says he is the Apostle to us the Gentiles.

Gal 2:8 For the same God who worked through Peter as the apostle to the Jews also worked through me as the apostle to the Gentiles.

Also Paul say that salvation comes to the Jew first.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of this Good News about Christ. It is the power of God at work, saving everyone who believes—the Jew first and also the Gentile.
Rom 1:17 This Good News tells us how God makes us right in his sight. This is accomplished from start to finish by faith. As the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.”

What we have all received is salvation from the Gentile not from the Jew because in the Jew we see all as it should be.

The scripture that I give is from the Gentile.

Here is Romans in the same verses from the Jew.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the Good News, since it is God's powerful means of bringing salvation to everyone who keeps on trusting, to the Jew especially, but equally to the Gentile.
Rom 1:17 For in it is revealed how God makes people righteous in his sight; and from beginning to end it is through trust — as the Tanakh puts it, "But the person who is righteous will live his life by trust."

Tanakh

Ta•nakh—acronym formed from the first letters of the three parts of the Hebrew Bible: Torah, Nevi'im and K'tuvim (see glossary entries). Hence, the Old Testament. Rendered "scripture" or "it is written" in most translations of the New Testament. The reason the New Testament writers cite the Tanakh so frequently is that they understand it as God's authoritative Word to mankind. Mat_4:4+.

 

[now faith]

Royll I believe that the definition of words is vital in desernment of the gospel. The process of translation of the king James was done through many scholars using a system of cross references between each other. In the 1940s the dead sea scrolls found most of the book of Isiah to be virtually letter for letter with the king James. My problem as time goes on with bibles being copyright for sale to facilitate copyright a number of changes must be made.In some versions they remove Scripture that pertains Christs deity as the son of god.I would love to be able to read Greek and Hebrew for my self.I know their are people who condemn others over this issue but I'm not one of them. I own a Catholic bible and Niv as well.The king James is been known to be easier to comprehend it reads on a fourth grade level while others read on higher comprehension levels with more words and semantics I am out of my league when it comes to historical translations as to their account of the Gospel. I believe the early Catholic church was founded by Constantine's doctrine that combined Christians with pagen sun worshipers in order to found a moral standard for Rome it wasent until the reformation that lay people could print and read Scripture for themselves.

 

[Aibrean]

Oh good grief. So, does your version of the KJV contain the apocrypha as well? The original did.

 

[now faith]

That's interesting do you know when they were removed?

 

[Aibrean]

According to Wikipedia, 1666 (after the Long Parliament forbade their reading in church).

 

[now faith]

I know their have been other books that we would consider as Scripture. The book of Thomas comes to mind since he was with christ as a apostle. You have given me something to study on I will start with the 14 Removed from the Canon. I have also been curious about the theory that Mary Madeline may have been involved in writing a Gospel. Thankyou