the dangers of crossdressing

[moorronnie]

BlackSabb, I think you missed the whole point to my response to you saying it's not an important issue. My point was that to those who it affects personally it is an important issue because it affects them personally. Crossdressers often lose their jobs, family and friends over this issue. Jobs, family and friends are extremely important parts of every human being's life. Anyone that just blows off the subject as a non-issue really doesn't have any idea how much it really affects a person's life.

I agree with you that I have issues and I've been seeking help with them for a very long time.

 

[moorronnie]

I didn't see the following reply until recently so I shall respond:

No, I don't think it's important! Just because I respond to a thread does not mean I think the issue in the thread is important. If I respond to an issue and say "This issue is a non issue", then that is what I believe. Don't take my words and use pseudo psychology to disclaim me when I say that what clothes people wear is a non issue.

I didn't say you thought it was important I said either that or you enjoy wasting your time. I guess you must enjoy wasting your time.

From your comments you seem to be quite rude and careless.

 

[Dancing Sky]

A great deal of what the Bible has to say isn't revlevant to the 21st century, the documents making up that books where not written for a modern audience.

I am much more comfortable in trousers and rarely wear a dress or shirt. It bothers me not if the deity isn't in favour, but if it exists I doubt it cares.

 

[BlackSabb]

A great deal of what the Bible has to say isn't revlevant to the 21st century, the documents making up that books where not written for a modern audience.

I am much more comfortable in trousers and rarely wear a dress or shirt. It bothers me not if the deity isn't in favour, but if it exists I doubt it cares.

Yeah Dancing Sky, we get it. You don't believe in Christianity, which you keep repeating the same thing over and over.

Which is fine, but why come here to CF just to spew your anti Christian sentiments? I just don't get you people at all. I don't go to secular forums and start badgering them how I don't believe in their non theistic beliefs.

If this is how you strongly feel that you must keep reinterating your position, then go elswhere. Don't be hypocritical coming to a Christian forum just to keep reminding us all how you don't believe in it.

 

[moorronnie]

A great deal of what the Bible has to say isn't revlevant to the 21st century, the documents making up that books where not written for a modern audience.

I believe you can find relevance in any historical record. I understand you probably doubt much of the history in the Bible, but much of it is certainly consistent with history.

I agree that many things don't directly apply to the 21st century, but I still believe we can learn a great deal from the lives and experiences and principles of those who have gone before us.

As for BlackSabb's comment I found it extremely critical and unchristian-like. It seems to me that a true Christian would invite 'heathens' to come unto Christianity and participate in our discussions.

Also, your comment about if God exists or not might have indicated that you believe that if God exists he must care very much about us. If this is the case then I think you should consider the highly improbable state our planet is in in our galaxy and be grateful for that at least. If you are just implying that God wouldn't care about crossdressing, then I must say that I agree that it is not his deepest concern. What He is concerned about is us and how we are doing.

 

[moorronnie]

I am much more comfortable in trousers and rarely wear a dress or shirt. It bothers me not if the deity isn't in favour, but if it exists I doubt it cares.

I hope you meant skirt... because a shirt is usually necessary for legal purposes at least.

"No skirt, no shoes, no service"

 

[BlackSabb]

As for BlackSabb's comment I found it extremely critical and unchristian-like. It seems to me that a true Christian would invite 'heathens' to come unto Christianity and participate in our discussions.

When a non Christian comes onto a Christian forum constantly bagging Christianity, I have every right to say "get lost and go somewhere else". There is nothing contructive about Dancing Sky's so called "participation" in these forums. It's just the usual "well, if God exists", " I don't believe in God", "I don't believe in the Bible".

Like I said, "Yeah, we get it". When a person comes here with nothing constructive to say and only wants to degrade our faith, I am right in speaking up. You on the other hand with your Mormon icon are quite happy to entertain a mocker.

 

[moorronnie]

You just mocked my faith, and you are ridiculing someone else for doing the same. I'm really confused about what exactly your faith is. The poster you say is ridiculing Christianity (while this may be the case in her other posts) made no ridiculing comments in the one you and I commented on. Doubting the existence of God is not ridicule it is an invite to discussion.

I sense a lot of contention in your comments lately; are you feeling okay? I hope so because I can't possibly see how a contentious Christian can be happy. I know I'm not happy if I invite the spirit of contention.

By the way in case you didn't know Mormon is a nick name for (the Church of Jesus Christ) which is the most ancient Christian religion, so please don't speak of my beliefs in such a way as to insinuate that I am not a Christian.

My goal in posting in this discussion on crossdressing isn't to advertise my behavior, but to help those that struggle with hating themselves because of it (there are a lot of people that do, especially of the Christian faith).

 

[moorronnie]

When a non Christian comes onto a Christian forum constantly bagging Christianity, I have every right to say "get lost and go somewhere else". There is nothing contructive about Dancing Sky's so called "participation" in these forums. It's just the usual "well, if God exists", " I don't believe in God", "I don't believe in the Bible".

I've thought about it and perhaps you are right. Everyone that doesn't believe in God should just shut up and go to hell and let us Christians go to heaven in peace!

(I hope you noted my sarcasm)

On the other hand some of us believe in helping others overcome their struggles so we can all end up in heaven. I've never met an atheist that didn't have a lot of personal struggles in life, nor have I met a Christian that didn't. I believe we are all brothers and sisters and should treat each other as such regardless of what we believe.

If you have problems with Dancing Sky's comments then you should address those problems in a patient, longsuffering manner just as Jesus Would (WWJD). Jesus NEVER said, "get lost and go somewhere else all ye that are heavy laden" he DID say "come unto me" and he bade us to do likewise.

 

[IreneAdler]

from what I understand it's mainly heterosexual men who cross dress. I would think that it might possibly cause issue in their marriages (if married) if they kept it a secret from their wives but other than that, if they didn't go out in public or something I can't see how it's particularly harmful in and of itself. (if they did and their people knew - i.e. job wasn't in danger - i can also not see an issue)

 

[moorronnie]

Yes this is true from what I have heard and experienced. Many people lump crossdressers in with homosexuals however most crossdressers are heterosexual.

Sadly many men do keep it a secret from their wives because they are afraid it might end their marriages if their wives knew, and sadly it does sometimes when their wives find out. There is so much social rejection towards male crossdressers that admitting that you are one even to yourself can be extremely difficult.

I'm almost positive that I would lose my job if I actively crossdressed in public (even if not at work).

It took a long time for my wife to understand why I felt the way I do about it, but honestly I'm not sure I understand completely why I feel the way I do, that's part of the reason why I'm participating in online forums to help me understand myself better by talking to other who have similar issues. Anyway, my wife is very understanding about things now and we have both agreed that crossdressing in public isn't a good social/economic move for a married man with kids.

 

[BlackSabb]

Yes this is true from what I have heard and experienced. Many people lump crossdressers in with homosexuals however most crossdressers are heterosexual.

Sadly many men do keep it a secret from their wives because they are afraid it might end their marriages if their wives knew, and sadly it does sometimes when their wives find out. There is so much social rejection towards male crossdressers that admitting that you are one even to yourself can be extremely difficult.

I'm almost positive that I would lose my job if I actively crossdressed in public (even if not at work).

It took a long time for my wife to understand why I felt the way I do about it, but honestly I'm not sure I understand completely why I feel the way I do, that's part of the reason why I'm participating in online forums to help me understand myself better by talking to other who have similar issues. Anyway, my wife is very understanding about things now and we have both agreed that crossdressing in public isn't a good social/economic move for a married man with kids.

I'm confused. Firstly, you stated that you wore women's underwear because you had testicular problems and that men's underwear was problematic. Now, you're admitting to crossdressing unrelated to any physical ailment.

Which is it?

 

[FreeSpirit74]

Let the wind blow high, let the wind blow low,
Through the streets in my kilt I'll go.
And the lassies say "hello,
Donald where's your trousers?"

I contra dance throughout the New England area (mostly Massachusetts) and you'll see a lot of straight guys wearing the same long, flowy skirts as the women wear to the dances, especially in the summertime. It keeps their "equipment" cooler, and it supposedly more comfortable than wearing jeans, slacks or pants.

 

[selfinflikted]

I don't see why people just shouldn't be able to wear what they want, without having to suffer ridicule (or worse) from anyone else. People can be so petty, and in a world with much bigger problems, I don't see why folks would even concern themselves.

 

[mpok1519]

A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this. - Deuteronomy 22:5

The Bible is very clear about this situation. One should question, why they want to wear the opposite genders clothing for a start?

As far as I know, pants were first worn by Tajiks, very similiar to the Salwar Kameez which included the long shirt. Even then, there is still a major difference between men and womens Salwar Kameez.

In the Biblical times, robes were worn. They would have been made from either wool or linen (Deuteronomy 22:11). They probably would have been similiar to the Arab dishdashas or thobes, which even then, you can definately tell the difference between men and women.

There is a clear difference between men and womens clothing and it should be kept that way.

That was then. Sociological norms are quite different now. Back then it was okay to have slaves and to stone children to death. Today, it is not. We are not as barbaric.

We should not base standards on a book written thousands of years ago bc frankly IT HAS SOME BAD IDEAS IF THEY WERE APPLIED TODAY.

 

[moorronnie]

I'm confused. Firstly, you stated that you wore women's underwear because you had testicular problems and that men's underwear was problematic. Now, you're admitting to crossdressing unrelated to any physical ailment.

Which is it?

I see how that could be confusing, but I didn't intend this. It's not one or the other it's both. I just brought up the first point to demonstrate that there are 'practical' reasons for it since the person I was replying to said there is never a good reason for it. Yes I do have physical issues, but I also have psychological reasons for crossdressing [I thought I made this clear in earlier comments (I can't remember), but you might have missed that].

I admit that seemed a little contradictory, but that was not intended at all. I hope this clarifies it for you.

In fact sometimes I wonder how much my physical problem has affected my psychological state. I've had this issue for over 14 years. 14 years of nearly chronic pain in a such a personal place can do a lot to one's emotional well being. I've been to several doctors about the pain and so far they have told me to either take narcotics, just deal with it, or undergo risky surgeries that might end up causing me more pain... thousands of dollars for that advice doesn't make me too happy. I often ask myself how much the physical pain I experience has actually affected my dissatisfaction with being masculine. I guess it makes it harder for me to want to be a man when my manly parts cause me so much pain every day of my life, especially since I had issues with my masculinity before I had these physical challenges.

While I had tried on a few articles of women's clothing in the past out of curiosity (about 3 times) I tried very hard to avoid it because I was afraid of what people would think of me if they found out I wanted to wear women's clothing. Ever since I was little I wanted to wear girls/women's clothes, but I had never really crossdressed until after I got married and had kids.

BlackSabb, I agree with you that I have issues. I've been trying to work through them for a very long time. I've spoken to councilors, a psychiatrist, ecclesiastical leaders and doctors about them and for the most part the only thing I have found so far that helps is being completely honest with myself and my wife about the way I feel. I was very close to wanting to kill myself over this (it scares me to think how close I was). I was scared to death that my wife wouldn't want to be with me anymore if I told her how I felt and I hated hiding my feelings (I tried so hard not to feel how I do, but it didn't work) but when I actually discussed my feelings in complete honesty with my wife she showed me nothing but compassion, love, and understanding. That was the best day of my life.

Anyway, I just thought that discussing this topic with a community of Christians might help me further understand why I feel the way I do about things, and I thought my experience my help someone else as well.

Sorry about being a little argumentative earlier.

 

[moorronnie]

Let the wind blow high, let the wind blow low,
Through the streets in my kilt I'll go.
And the lassies say "hello,
Donald where's your trousers?"

I contra dance throughout the New England area (mostly Massachusetts) and you'll see a lot of straight guys wearing the same long, flowy skirts as the women wear to the dances, especially in the summertime. It keeps their "equipment" cooler, and it supposedly more comfortable than wearing jeans, slacks or pants.

That surprises me. I guess I've never heard of guys wearing skirts for dancing. How do people react to this?

 

[BlackSabb]

I see how that could be confusing, but I didn't intend this. It's not one or the other it's both. I just brought up the first point to demonstrate that there are 'practical' reasons for it since the person I was replying to said there is never a good reason for it. Yes I do have physical issues, but I also have psychological reasons for crossdressing [I thought I made this clear in earlier comments (I can't remember), but you might have missed that].

I admit that seemed a little contradictory, but that was not intended at all. I hope this clarifies it for you.

In fact sometimes I wonder how much my physical problem has affected my psychological state. I've had this issue for over 14 years. 14 years of nearly chronic pain in a such a personal place can do a lot to one's emotional well being. I've been to several doctors about the pain and so far they have told me to either take narcotics, just deal with it, or undergo risky surgeries that might end up causing me more pain... thousands of dollars for that advice doesn't make me too happy. I often ask myself how much the physical pain I experience has actually affected my dissatisfaction with being masculine. I guess it makes it harder for me to want to be a man when my manly parts cause me so much pain every day of my life, especially since I had issues with my masculinity before I had these physical challenges.

While I had tried on a few articles of women's clothing in the past out of curiosity (about 3 times) I tried very hard to avoid it because I was afraid of what people would think of me if they found out I wanted to wear women's clothing. Ever since I was little I wanted to wear girls/women's clothes, but I had never really crossdressed until after I got married and had kids.

BlackSabb, I agree with you that I have issues. I've been trying to work through them for a very long time. I've spoken to councilors, a psychiatrist, ecclesiastical leaders and doctors about them and for the most part the only thing I have found so far that helps is being completely honest with myself and my wife about the way I feel. I was very close to wanting to kill myself over this (it scares me to think how close I was). I was scared to death that my wife wouldn't want to be with me anymore if I told her how I felt and I hated hiding my feelings (I tried so hard not to feel how I do, but it didn't work) but when I actually discussed my feelings in complete honesty with my wife she showed me nothing but compassion, love, and understanding. That was the best day of my life.

Anyway, I just thought that discussing this topic with a community of Christians might help me further understand why I feel the way I do about things, and I thought my experience my help someone else as well.

Sorry about being a little argumentative earlier.

To tell you the truth, I don't understand why you've bothered posting this at all. If you told your wife about your personal issues and she DIDN'T understand, then I could see why you would post this on a forum, Christian or otherwise.

But what's the problem? You have these feelings and issues, you haven't been able to suppress or overcome them, you told your wife and she was nothing but loving and understanding. Quite frankly, the only people who need to be involved are you and your wife. Your wife is okay with you, so no problem.

So what is the issue? Why the postings?

 

[Jase]

A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this. - Deuteronomy 22:5

The Bible is very clear about this situation. One should question, why they want to wear the opposite genders clothing for a start?

Lev 19:19 "'Keep my decrees. "'Do not mate different kinds of animals. "'Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. "'Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.


I take it you have never worn clothing made of cotton and polyester?

 

[IreneAdler]

Thou shalt not wear cotton/poly blend

(opposite gender's clothing is so subjective anyway... not to mention.... in some cases it's just necessary - not so much lacy panties but until recently they didn't make women's camo - so women shouldn't hunt simply because there were no technically women's hunting clothes??? that's weird)