The Confederate Flag

[Avid]

.

Too simplistic...

So true. If we can get the OP, and the people standing on that premise to show how they have had a life-long struggle geared toward banning the Confederate Battle Flag (not just an opinion,) how they had written letters since childhood to places like NASCAR, Walmart, etc., to get that flag banned, we may take this recent fad more seriously.

They have simply jumped on a bandwagon for getting society to become so much more Politically Correct. The problem is that society does not care. The people, who started the campaign to get this flag banned, have a future goal of banning display of the US Flag. Likewise, as has been shown in topic threads here, the people who wish SSM to be legal, actually wish to eliminate marriage as an institution. They get lots of people to jump on their bandwagon, and they ride along until they see the destructive nature of the fad, and by then it is too late.

Again, anyone having come to the point of speaking out in the last few weeks (not since they got a dose of Revisionist History in the 3rd or 5th grade,) should have the perspective that this thrust to be rid of an old icon simply is a fad.

 

[civilwarbuff]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

It appears people don't know or understand the difference between the Confederate National Flag and the Confederate Battle Flag. The above link gives a good understanding of the differences and the purposes of each. Sorry if this was addressed in an earlier post.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Yes, unfortunately, many hang around the fort NDNs did get involved in the Civil War, fighting for this pathetic country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_Native_Americans_in_the_United_States

Slavery among Native Americans in the United States
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Slavery among Native Americans in the United States includes slavery by Native Americans as well as slavery of Native Americans roughly within the present-day United States. Tribal territories and the slave trade ranged over present-day borders. Some Native American tribes held war captives as slaves prior to and during European colonization, some Native Americans were captured and sold by others into slavery to Europeans, and a small number of tribes, in the late eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, adopted the practice of holding slaves as chattel property and held increasing numbers of African-American slaves.

Pre-contact forms of slavery were generally distinct from the form of chattel slavery developed by Europeans in North America during the colonial period.[2] European influence greatly changed slavery used by Native Americans. As they raided other tribes to capture slaves for sales to Europeans, they fell into destructive wars among themselves, and against Europeans.[2][3][4][5]

....now, go on and tell the story about how peaceful and wonderful everything was before the Europeans arrived.....You need to come out of your little dreamworld and realize Amerindians really were not so different from everyone else after all.

 

[Red Fox]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_Native_Americans_in_the_United_States

Slavery among Native Americans in the United States
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Slavery among Native Americans in the United States includes slavery by Native Americans as well as slavery of Native Americans roughly within the present-day United States. Tribal territories and the slave trade ranged over present-day borders. Some Native American tribes held war captives as slaves prior to and during European colonization, some Native Americans were captured and sold by others into slavery to Europeans, and a small number of tribes, in the late eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, adopted the practice of holding slaves as chattel property and held increasing numbers of African-American slaves.

Pre-contact forms of slavery were generally distinct from the form of chattel slavery developed by Europeans in North America during the colonial period.[2] European influence greatly changed slavery used by Native Americans. As they raided other tribes to capture slaves for sales to Europeans, they fell into destructive wars among themselves, and against Europeans.[2][3][4][5]

Yes, I'm well aware of the hang around the fort NDNs who tried to conform themselves into the image of the white man, and yes, it's terribly pathetic and shameful. So.... if you're attempting to publicly shame me or embarrass me by posting this kind of information about my ancestors, then you failed, epically. I'm just as ashamed of the hang around the fort NDNs of the past and of today as the next NDN who has not betrayed or dishonored our people and our ancestors by pretending to be white rather than be who the Creator made them to be, which was NDN. I was forcibly assimilated into becoming white when I was a child and I fought with every ounce of strength I had in me against that so I could regain and reclaim my NDN identity as an adult, and it will be a cold day in hell before I ever let that happen to me again or to my children.

....now, go on and tell the story about how peaceful and wonderful everything was before the Europeans arrived.....You need to come out of your little dreamworld and realize Amerindians really were not so different from everyone else after all.

I don't recall saying anything about life before the invasion of the white man being completely peaceful or wonderful. Please quote my post where I said that.

And just because life was difficult for my ancestors and many of them fought among themselves does not in any way, shape or form justify the theft of all our tribal lands or all the forced removals or the death marches or the theft of our children from their families to be placed into Indian Residential Schools to be forcibly assimilated into the image of the white man or the cultural genocide that proceeded to eradicate anything and everything pertaining to our Indian and human identity or all the countless atrocities and acts of terrorism committed against my ancestors or the attempted genocide and annihilation of my entire race during the invasion of the white man. And for the record, it most certainly does not justify the 42 years of abuse, racism, and mistreatment that I have had to endure because I am Native American, being forcibly taken from my birth mother and placed in a home with a white Christian couple and raised to be a white child rather than an NDN. So, maybe you can understand now why I scoff at you.

 

[civilwarbuff]

And just because life was difficult for my ancestors and many of them fought among themselves does not in any way, shape or form justify the theft of all our tribal lands or all the forced removals or the death marches or the theft of our children from their families to be placed into Indian Residential Schools to be forcibly assimilated into the image of the white man or the cultural genocide that proceeded to eradicate anything and everything pertaining to our Indian and human identity or all the countless atrocities and acts of terrorism committed against my ancestors or the attempted genocide and annihilation of my entire race during the invasion of the white man. And for the record, it most certainly does not justify the 42 years of abuse, racism, and mistreatment that I have had to endure because I am Native American, being forcibly taken from my birth mother and placed in a home with a white Christian couple and raised to be a white child rather than an NDN. So, maybe you can understand now why I scoff at you.

Actually, I can't since I was not present, did not participate in or even know about any of the things you described. My point was that your ancestors and mine were not all that different when it came to slavery. And my apology for being a little snarky with the "...peaceful and wonderful...." comment.

 

[Red Fox]

Actually, I can't since I was not present, did not participate in or even know about any of the things you described.

Duly noted. I was simply trying to explain the reasons for the position that I now take.

My point was that your ancestors and mine were not all that different when it came to slavery.

Unfortunately and sadly, that is true for many of my ancestors, of which I am ashamed and disgusted.

 

[Avid]

... Slavery among Native Americans ...

Though these things are true, the pertinent thing (which you may have mentioned, and was discussed some already) is that the people who see this flag as racist do not realize the racism of some people who were "SUPPOSEDLY" crusaders for the cause of ending slavery. Their champion (Abe Lincoln) was more racist than would be acceptable in today's society, and no one would wait for a fad of getting rid of symbols to confront him on his words!!!

We see people trying to make retroactive assessments of behavior hundreds and even thousands of years ago, but they do not seem to do that with Lincoln and his fellows. What people might call racism today may not be racism at all, and Dr. Thomas Sowell handled that in his interview that was posted a little way back. Just because someone avoids a person of another race does not mean they are racist! There are people who it makes sense to stay clear of, while others of the same race may be just fine. Dr. Sowell points out the principle I am talking about in the last part of that video.

The racist feels the same about all people of the race he considers inferior. He may treat one person better because he has reason to trust him, but still considers him inferior. That is not what I think, feel nor believe. It is how Lincoln, the racist, was, however. I'll give example of a few people I consider superior in many ways. Dr. Thomas Sowell, Dr. Walter E. Williams, Justice Clarence Thomas, Dr. Ben Carson, and Herman Cain. Each has done (accomplished) more, in numerous areas, and shown superior ability and intellect. I would not mind any of these people living in my neighborhood, and would prefer each of them to some (most, all,) neighbors I presently have.

It is disingenuous to identify a certain symbol as RACIST, when many of those opposed to it (150 years ago) were every bit as racist (maybe more,) and had done most of the same things. Some opposed to it today are more racist than some of the people who are NOT OPPOSED to it. The differences rest squarely on the shoulders of Revisionist History, and the way certain people these days use or abuse the symbol.

I mentioned before how this fad mentality will soon deprive each of us of something we hold dear. Something you cherish will bring offense to someone soon, and the new fad will be to call you some name, deride you for some unacceptable attitude, and forbid your use of the thing you cherish. Are you aware of the latest moves to make smoking in your own home against the law? (in certain localities?) You may say you don't smoke, and think others should not. That is how I feel, but I do not intend to so misuse the law as to keep someone from doing something that is neither illegal nor immoral, simply because of what I'd rather see.

 

[Avid]

For the OP, and those with an irrational hatred of a symbol...

There are places in the US where flags are displayed that are representative of nations significantly more RACIST, more oppressive and more vicious than anything that can rightly be attributed to people who have, or currently do display, the flag in question here. Get rid of the United Nations, and representatives of all those horrendous regimes, and then discuss your hatred of a symbol that stands for constitutionally guaranteed liberties. You may dislike the way things were done 150 years ago, as do I in certain examples, but put away your hatred of certain Americans, certain historic figures, and certain symbols.

Read the first amendment, realize that some people consider it patriotic and constitutionally protected behavior to burn the US flag, and THEN compare it to your irrational hatred of a symbol. Notice that no government agents stormed your bedroom to remove the unicorn posters from the wall!!! No one campaigned to have you remove the decorated mailbox from in front of your home - not yet anyway.

The point being that if you think it is acceptable to ban or remove this symbol, someone will soon identify something you like, and have it banned, or removed. Your right to free speech is worth nothing if you are not allowed to exercise it!!! If you allow this idea to go unchallenged, you have no place to stand when others ban your favorite things. People have gotten bans on large soft drinks, and table salt shakers.

There has been a certain amount of headway toward banning large SUVs. There are people who travel with their large family, and pull a trailer or boat with these large vehicles. If they are banned, they will need to use 2 or 3 vehicles for the same job.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Unfortunately and sadly, that is true for many of my ancestors, of which I am ashamed and disgusted.

No need to feel ashamed or disgusted....those were different times and we are not held accountable by God for the wrongs of our forbears....although we do frequently suffer the consequences of their actions.

 

[lupusFati]

Even if I knew who my ancestors were, I wouldn't feel any kinship, nor would my approval and/or disgust of them change anything about my life. They're not me, I'm not them, so who cares.

 

[outsidethecamp]

Confederate Flag Wavers Greet President Obama in Oklahoma

Looks like in hoping to wipe out the confederate flag, someone, just made it more popular. Are they starting a new fad? Wave the rebel flag when dear leader comes to town or any other "leader" that you're "fond" of?

Over 7,000 replies on this article.

 

[dad]

Even if I knew who my ancestors were, I wouldn't feel any kinship, nor would my approval and/or disgust of them change anything about my life. They're not me, I'm not them, so who cares.

In the days of the confederation there were not millions of babies murdered every year, or WOMD, or openly Sodomite supporting leaders etc. Slavery was not invented in the US. That was a predominant sin of that day, but it pales in comparison to the Obama era!