The Book of Revelation: False Prophecy or True Prophecy?

[Achilles6129]

Is the book of Revelation false prophecy or true prophecy?

Evidence the book is false prophecy:

1) The author reiterates that the things in the book were to happen soon. It was written in 95 AD.

As sort of a caveat to this, it does need to be noted that the 1000 years encompass the "soon."

2) The bizarre nature of some of the plagues

3) The fact that the book remains yet unfulfilled

Evidence that the book of Revelation is true prophecy:

1) The intricate nature of the book

2) The fact that Rev. 11 does seem to predict modern communication

3) The book's reliance on the Old and New Testaments

Thoughts?

 

[Albion]

My immediate reaction is to say that you can't ascertain if it's true or false in this way.

One problem is that there is no reason to demand literalness from it (as in the matter of the "bizarre nature of the plagues").

 

[Achilles6129]

My immediate reaction is to say that you can't ascertain if it's true or false in this way.

One problem is that there is no reason to demand literalness from it (as in the matter of the "bizarre nature of the plagues").

Well you might at least be able to arrive at a good indication of whether or not it's true or false in this fashion.

In regards to the plagues - you don't take them literally?

 

[Albion]

Well you might at least be able to arrive at a good indication of whether or not it's true or false in this fashion.

Personally, I don't think so. Even your own overview seems to indicate that there is a credible argument for thinking it false but also one for thinking it true.

In regards to the plagues - you don't take them literally?

My point was that it doesn't matter. This is a vision. Imagery. Symbolism, etc.

 

[Achilles6129]

Personally, I don't think so. Even your own overview seems to indicate that there is a credible argument for thinking it false but also one for thinking it true.


My point was that it doesn't matter. This is a vision. Imagery. Symbolism, etc.

So then how are we ever supposed to know what it means?

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Apocalyptic literature "unveils" the true things going on. It was an attempt at describing the tragic loss of the Jerusalem temple for the early Jewish-Christians. It had nothing to do with predicting some sort of end of the world, no blueprint to some sort of political commentary on the twenty-first century. I find it weird to think that it did.

 

[Albion]

So then how are we ever supposed to know what it means?

Well, there may be an answer to that. Someone may have other information to cite, and there may be other considerations--ordinary history or lingustics, for example.

You asked for our thoughts after giving us a list of issues to consider. As the first person to reply, I said only that what you gave us (and I'm not dismissing that list in saying this) didn't seem to me to push us very much either way, towards concluding that it's true or that it's false.

 

[Achilles6129]

Well, there may be an answer to that. Someone may have other information to cite, and there may be other considerations--ordinary history or lingustics, for example.

You asked for our thoughts after giving us a list of issues to consider. As the first person to reply, I said only that what you gave us (and I'm not dismissing that list in saying this) didn't seem to me to push us very much either way, towards concluding that it's true or that it's false.

OK, so then why do you believe it's true or false?

 

[yellowastra]

True prophecy but past

 

[-57]

Revelations 9:16 And the number of mounted troops was two hundred million; I heard their number.

This wasn't possible until recently.

 

[Achilles6129]

Revelations 9:16 And the number of mounted troops was two hundred million; I heard their number.

This wasn't possible until recently.

Good point. That's something to be added to the list of evidence.

 

[-57]

Some take a preterits view of Revelation...but I have a problem with that. There is a lot written in Rev that hasn't happened.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Cryptic writing style common in that age to avoid persecution if caught with it, with no particular main focus on prophecy. It is only in taking that writing style out of context that the need to see the whole thing as visions of the future becomes necessary.

 

[Wgw]

Many argue persuasively that the book among other things is an epistle directed at various churches, and an allegorical description of the Eucharistic liturgy.

 

[Achilles6129]

OK - does anyone have any more thoughts on evidence for or against the book of Revelation?

 

[Gary the Kid]

It's the testimony of an un-named Angel. You don't go to Heaven, you go to Earth........There are hybrid human-animal beings. The so-called Lamb has 7 eyes and 7 horns (symbolic, maybe not)...........it knocks and then this spirit, enters you if you open a portal (door)..........A curse is lifted sometime in the future and you are allowed to eat of a tree, as you dwell in a jeweled city on the New Earth which has no Sun light and an open gate with all the riff-raff outside the walls. (open gate)..........The personality of Jesus (aka) changes from loving to vengeful.......I wonder why........I also noticed at the beginning of REV, he has feet of brass......which is fake gold............Actually in the Mel Gibson Movie, if you can figure out who the ugly kid, Satan is holding, is. That will be your answer. As for me, I will stick with the Old Heaven. PS: try and figure out also, who the kid was from the sin of David and Bathsheba and who was snatched up on the 7th day........He was supposed to be the King of Israel. This kid is actually everywhere and he is normally pictured being held by his goddess mother. Goes by many different names as well.........

 

[Gary the Kid]

It's the testimony of an un-named Angel. You don't go to Heaven, you go to Earth........There are hybrid human-animal beings. The so-called Lamb has 7 eyes and 7 horns (symbolic, maybe not)...........it knocks and then this spirit, enters you if you open a portal (door)..........A curse is lifted sometime in the future and you are allowed to eat of a tree, as you dwell in a jeweled city on the New Earth which has no Sun light and an open gate with all the riff-raff outside the walls. (open gate)..........The personality of Jesus (aka) changes from loving to vengeful.......I wonder why........I also noticed at the beginning of REV, he has feet of brass......which is fake gold............Actually in the Mel Gibson Movie, if you can figure out who the ugly kid, Satan is holding, is. That will be your answer. As for me, I will stick with the Old Heaven. PS: try and figure out also, who the kid was from the sin of David and Bathsheba and who was snatched up on the 7th day........He was supposed to be the King of Israel. This kid is actually everywhere and he is normally pictured being held by his goddess mother. Goes by many different names as well.........

 

[Gary the Kid]

It's the testimony of an un-named Angel. You don't go to Heaven, you go to Earth........There are hybrid human-animal beings. The so-called Lamb has 7 eyes and 7 horns (symbolic, maybe not)...........it knocks and then this spirit, enters you if you open a portal (door)..........A curse is lifted sometime in the future and you are allowed to eat of a tree, as you dwell in a jeweled city on the New Earth which has no Sun light and an open gate with all the riff-raff outside the walls. (open gate)..........The personality of Jesus (aka) changes from loving to vengeful.......I wonder why........I also noticed at the beginning of REV, he has feet of brass......which is fake gold............Actually in the Mel Gibson Movie, if you can figure out who the ugly kid, Satan is holding, is. That will be your answer. As for me, I will stick with the Old Heaven. PS: try and figure out also, who the kid was from the sin of David and Bathsheba and who was snatched up on the 7th day........He was supposed to be the King of Israel. This kid is actually everywhere and he is normally pictured being held by his goddess mother. Goes by many different names as well.........

 

[rockytopva]

I believe the churches came down in ages spawning seven general churches...

Ephesus - Apostolic - Paul writes as having all Asia forsaking him
Smyrna - Early Orthodox - Martyr - Foxes has the Roman persecutions as ten.
Pergamos - Orthodox... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholic - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestant - A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Materialistic - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

As we live in Laodicean times so we have the Charismatic / Faith churches of today. The six earlier churches still have their structure, but have been affected by the times and the seasons. I believe that the spirit of Jezebel has long left the Catholic church for greener pastures such as Islam and some Buddhist lands.

Ephesus - Still alive in the form of Messianic Judaism?
Smyrna - I believe this mostly encompasses the Oriental Orthodox churches
Pergamos - Greek, Eastern, and Russian Orthodox churches. Benefits include your traditional service.
Thyatira - Catholic church - Benefits include your traditional service and a structured ecclesiastical order.
Sardis - Protestant church - As a Sardius is a gem so the churches are normally clean, orderly and decent. As a Sardius is a gem so they are normally pretty settled in their doctrinal thinking
Philadelphia - Brotherly Love - To acquire sanctification is to get it with a sweet and a loving spirit. This is a great church if you can find one in revival.
Laodicea - Offers a contemporary service with emphasis on faith. Some of our biggest churches are Word of Faith type churches..

I believe that the modern times are Laodicea times. So the prophecy is correct. Going on to the four horseman and the four earthly regimes...

1. White Horseman - Democracy
2. Red Horseman - Communism (Note the communist flag - red with a sword)
3. Black Horseman - Islam
4. Pale Horseman - The AntiChrist

All setting up for a 2060 AD end date, as Isaac Newton says...

“And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half.” –Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." -” – Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christ’s coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However… Isaac Newton notes…

"“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - –Isaac Newton

 

[rockytopva]

Before Christ comes the Anti-Christ must be revealed...

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thessalonians 2:3

Who....

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. - Revelation 13:16-18

One ought to see how that they are going to do away with global currency and have all transactions made electronically. I traveled to Tahiti and couldn't help but notice all the electronic devices hooked to databases. All you have to do is swipe your passports and all your information comes up. You can even have your iPhone display your ticket information. We are not far away from having everything stored on a universal database in which we will all be required to be tied in to! And for most folk this will be just another tattoo! 2060AD is a very close, scientific, and accurate prediction!