Mathematician said:SBC,
Would you like to go back and count all the times in the past month that a YEC has claimed that TEs and OECs are unbelievers? Yet you just told one of them that he did it with the best of motives? Well why can't you give me the same benefit of the doubt?
I asked you if you could help me understand what you meant by what you said. To me, what you said looked like you were claiming all YECs are liars and Vossler is an atheist trying to ruin the Gospel. Instead of saying this is what you meant, I wanted to know your side.
Vossler explained in the OP that what he said was his observations. He asked for corrections if they were wrong.
I didn't say Vossler had the best motives, rather I said that he meant well even if he didn't use the best words that would be acceptable to everyone. Simply put, I gave him the benefit of the doubt just as I did you by asking you to help me understand why it looked as if you made direct accusations instead of asking if they were correct.
Mathematician said:I gave a link with two eaxmples of common YEC lies.
Yes, I saw that. Your original statement looks like you are accusing all YECs as liars. Was that your intent?
Mathematician said:Ken Ham even gave one of Hugh Ross' counter-examples for one which Ham dismissed without addressing Ross' argument. If you read Ross' argument and Ham's dismissal, you'd see that they both agree on the facts. Hosea 6:2, gives an example of number say that does not mean one 24-hour day. Yet even after agreeing to that, Ham still makes the false claim.
Ross gave an example of the other. Ham ignores Ross' example and pretends it doesn't exist. I gave Ross' example to Vosseler plus another example. Did Vosseler even have the integrity to look them up? No. Instead, he claimed it didn't matter.
It doesn't matter that Vosseler believes two lies and uses those (among other things) to accuse us of unbelief. What if I showed Vosseler two more lies? It still wouldn't matter. What if I showed Vosseler two more lies after that? It still wouldn't matter. Vosseler doesn't care that he believes a lie. But he's quite willing to condemn us for not believing that same lie.
Don't you see a problem here?
I believe Vossler doesn't believe they are lies. Are you going to fault him for having different beliefs than you?
I didn't think Vossler was condemning anyone here. He did ask for corrections to the statements of observations that he made. I think that shows an honest attempt to understand.
Honestly, your statement that Vossler is in league with atheists to discredit the Gospel was a harsh accusation. You didn't ask if he was, you told him he was. You showed no mercy, but you expect mercy to be shown to you in these conversations. That is the one-way street I have been talking about and why this forum is so heated with debates, arguments, accusations, and hatred.
We aren't simply going back and forth debating, we are accusing with vile and hatred filled statements. And after we respond in such a way, we expect people not to respond to us as we responded to them.
If you didn't mean what you said, that YECs are all liars and that Vossler teams up with atheist to discredit the Gospel, then my apologies. But, if you did, then you cannot ever be upset if someone responds to you in the same manner. If you aren't willing to give mercy or grace or even forgiveness, then you cannot expect it from anyone else towards you.
I dunno, maybe this is the wrong place for me to be discussing how we ought to follow Jesus Christ's example and love one another, showing grace, mercy and forgiveness. We seem to have too many excuses not to.
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