Syria: Broken Nation

[Landon Caeli]

There's just so much fighting all the time, I don't know who's who or what's what... Every one of them having targeted civilians in the past.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

A western Syrian journalist, Rami Jarrah, said about the picture:

"I didn't even have to draw a line down the middle

Its bloody well shameful that anyone is trying to portray this as a two side military showdown.

the fact of the matter is whether there were rebel groups fighting back or not the planes have always been in the sky and Assad's army was deployed from that very first moment that peaceful protests erupted across the country.

What do we expect of people in areas like the Eastern Ghouta? to just sit back and watch as their children are buried alive?, attack after attack? People who are able to speculate on and even have the nerve to criticize those shooting back in the direction that the bombs are coming from are cold ignorant individuals, who are asking that the people of Ghouta remain silent and endure all forms of murder in order to be considered innocent; even if it means no one will do anything to stop Assad from annihilating them. Why should they care what people think if no one cares about their fate?

the international communities incompetence in holding this mass murderer accountable relieves it of it's right to join the blame game, and Journalists who don't paint the bigger picture to their audiences but instead slap in cheap comparisons of individual events, all the while choosing to avoid providing real context are misinforming the public.

What is happening in Ghouta is a slap in the face to the so called principles of our modern world, yes the proposed ceasefire is on the table, that although we are thankful for; we still regard as a part of the prolonging element of the Syrian holocaust. What's the point I ask? Assad will soon attack the eastern Ghouta again even more viciously than ever before.

mark my words."

Source

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Which ones, specifically? Because some of those fight amongst themselves as well?

The opposition as a whole, as I stated. Infighting does not make them bad nor does it make Assad's regime the better option.

The problem is that there is no single "opposition". There are multiple faction there, many of which don't really get along.

For example, IS and Al-nusrah both also fight against Assad and its allies.
In the past, you've said quite a few dubious things concerning al-nusrah in specific.

It would be nice to hear you speak clear language about this.

ISIS is not part of the opposition. In 2014, it left Assad's regime alone (and Assad left it alone) and concentrated most of its attacks against the opposition. It took land from the opposition and eventually gave it up to the regime. The regime has often let in ISIS through its areas to attack the rebels.

JN disbanded, but here is what I said about them (which is pretty clear):

"I don't hate JN, I don't love them. I leave judgement up to the Syrian people themselves because they're the ones there on the ground and from the looks of it, they either support JN or, at the very least, tolerate them because they prefer them over Assad.

I think people are mainly just making JN guilty by association instead of looking at their consistent actions."

Jabhat an Nusra never had any beef with any countries besides those allied with the regime. It said that the US or striking it was not on its mind, that its sole focus was fighting the regime. Even after being attacked by the US and coalition, it did not make plans to attack the US abroad (though it did fight back against the YPG & affiliates because those groups are in bed with the regime).

And no, I'm not an Assad supporter.

But seem to be looking for excuses to favor him over the opposition, just like most of the world.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

There's just so much fighting all the time, I don't know who's who or what's what... Every one of them having targeted civilians in the past.

'nuff said.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The opposition as a whole, as I stated. Infighting does not make them bad nor does it make Assad's regime the better option.



ISIS is not part of the opposition. In 2014, it left Assad's regime alone (and Assad left it alone) and concentrated most of its attacks against the opposition. It took land from the opposition and eventually gave it up to the regime. The regime has often let in ISIS through its areas to attack the rebels.

JN disbanded, but here is what I said about them (which is pretty clear):

"I don't hate JN, I don't love them. I leave judgement up to the Syrian people themselves because they're the ones there on the ground and from the looks of it, they either support JN or, at the very least, tolerate them because they prefer them over Assad.

I think people are mainly just making JN guilty by association instead of looking at their consistent actions."

Jabhat an Nusra never had any beef with any countries besides those allied with the regime. It said that the US or striking it was not on its mind, that its sole focus was fighting the regime. Even after being attacked by the US and coalition, it did not make plans to attack the US abroad (though it did fight back against the YPG & affiliates because those groups are in bed with the regime).



But seem to be looking for excuses to favor him over the opposition, just like most of the world.

Newsflash: Al nusrah is linked to al-qaida and half of the radical jihadi's from Belgium that went over there to play rambo, have joined that group. The other half, joined IS.

Al nusrah is a salafist jihadist organization. ie: not "the good guys". Rather: fundamentalists who seek anything but "freedom" for the Syrian people and who are guilty of war crimes.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Newsflash: Al nusrah is linked to al-qaida and half of the radical jihadi's from Belgium that went over there to play rambo, have joined that group.

To do what? To fight the genocidal Assad regime that is slaughtering Sunnis. And if the Syrians who are ACTUALLY undergoing the genocide prefer them to Assad's regime and its allies, then no one else's opinion matters, especially those who aren't doing a thing to stop Assad but are full of judgement about those who do. But that's besides the point. Nusra was a tiny faction, especially in Ghouta and Aleppo. What excuse is there, given all of this live documented information about the genocide, to ask who the good guys are (as if it wasn't obvious that it's the side fighting against the genocide)? It's no better than asking who the good guys were during the Holocaust & trying to say some people joined the radical resistance in the Warsaw ghetto to play rambo.

Also, would you describe the westerners who joined the YPG (or even worse, the PMU) as radicals playing rambo? How would you describe Hezbollah and the Shia militias from around the world that are slaughtering the Sunnis in a Sunni majority country for the sake of a minority sect in order to form a Shia (a minority) crescent forcibly through genocide and ethnic cleansing?

Al nusrah is a salafist jihadist organization. ie: not "the good guys". Rather: fundamentalists who seek anything but "freedom" for the Syrian people and who are guilty of war crimes.

Allow me to quote it again (Nusra disbanded, but I think this infographic refers to them as fateh al sham front). They have literally killed fewer people than any of the others mentioned despite being one of the more sophisticated, trained fighting groups and being in Syria since pretty early on in the revolution. So sure, hate them because of their affiliation, but be just and don't make up stuff in order to justify your hate.

Back in 2014, this Syrian Nusra member said:

"But another Nusra member, a fighter who also helped to oversee its oil production in the Syrian province of Deir Ezzor before ISIS overtook it this summer, said he supported Nusra because he saw it as the best way to fight both ISIS and the regime. "They are individuals who want to liberate the country from a tyrant," he said. "The reason I joined Jabhat al-Nusra is because it knew from the beginning that it had to rely on itself. With all due respect to the American public, we knew that our lives meant nothing to them."

He said he didn't blame Americans for fearing the group — "the citizens of the U.S. have every right to say that Jabhat al-Nusra and ISIS are two faces of the same coin." But he made the same kind of distinction between Nusra and the global organization of al-Qaeda that many Syrians cite when explaining their support for Nusra. "There is no insurgent in Jabhat al-Nusra who has ever met Zawahiri," he said. "It's kind of an institutional structure that we're part of al-Qaeda. But on the ground, all the decisions are made among the fighters of Nusra themselves.""

U.S. Goes To War With Jabhat Al-Nusra

 

[Landon Caeli]

So what's the solution? Fight?

 

[DogmaHunter]

To do what?

To play Rambo.

To fight the genocidal Assad regime that is slaughtering Sunnis.

Be serious. Every single one of the Belgian youngsters who went over there, were low-life criminals. Drug dealers (and users), pimps, ... with a looooong track record of getting into fights of nonsense, bullying, robberies, petty crime, etc.

These guys went over there to "play war" and release all their hatred they've build up over the years in their toxic environments.

They were recruited by Islamists and convinced by cultivating / feeding their "resentment" of society (which they themselves rejected by prefering crime over education and an honest job) and making them believe they could go there and be a "hero".

Assad.... give me a break. Playing Rambo and being war heroes is what motivates them. They don't give jack about Assad's victims. Just like they don't give jack about their own victims. If they had the power to do so, they'ld do much worse then Assad has done to date.

You are blinded by your ideology. You just don't see it.

At no point would I ever defend Assad. But you need to understand that the "opposition" factions you support, are just as bad - if not worse.

The specific faction you are supporting now, wants to install a sharia ruled salafist islamic state in syria, with the backing of Saudi Arabia.

Do you honestly believe that that would improve the lives of Syrians? Do you honestly believe that that is the way forward for them?

Nusra was a tiny faction, especially in Ghouta and Aleppo. What excuse is there, given all of this live documented information about the genocide, to ask who the good guys are (as if it wasn't obvious that it's the side fighting against the genocide)?

It isn't obvious at all, actually.

Suppose Hitler is fighting against Stalin and that Staling is trying to carry out genocide against the nazi's.

Who's the good guy there? By your logic, it would be Hitler.


One thing I'll agree on, is that the actual citizens are the victims here and it is incredibly tragic.

It's no better than asking who the good guys were during the Holocaust & trying to say some people joined the radical resistance in the Warsaw ghetto to play rambo.

No, that's not a proper analogy at all.

Also, would you describe the westerners who joined the YPG (or even worse, the PMU) as radicals playing rambo? How would you describe Hezbollah and the Shia militias from around the world that are slaughtering the Sunnis in a Sunni majority country for the sake of a minority sect in order to form a Shia (a minority) crescent forcibly through genocide and ethnic cleansing?

Like Hitler fighting Stalin.

There are so many sides to this conflict and most of them are just as evil as the next.

Allow me to quote it again (Nusra disbanded, but I think this infographic refers to them as fateh al sham front). They have literally killed fewer people than any of the others mentioned despite being one of the more sophisticated, trained fighting groups and being in Syria since pretty early on in the revolution. So sure, hate them because of their affiliation, but be just and don't make up stuff in order to justify your hate.

I'm not making anything up.
I never mentioned number of victims.

I'm just looking over the edge.
If some jihadi salafist faction defeats Assad and ceases power, what will happen in your opinion? Do you think life will be nice there then?

Think again.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Fight, play victim. Over and over, again and again. That's Islam.

...Maybe give it up, along with the superstitions that make people fear doing so. Free yourselves and make new friends... Try new things.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Fight, play victim. Over and over, again and again. That's Islam.

That's Islamism

That's the culture / way of the jihadi, not of your average muslim.
Jihadi's, sadly, do make up a significant portion of muslims though.

And I kind of judge "moderate" muslims for not standing up to them, smoking them out and exposing them.

For example, I don't buy for a second that (at least) some of the "moderates" in Molenbeek etc, Belgium, had no idea at all what the low-lifes like the Abdeslam brothers, Mohammed Abrini, Bilal Hadfi and Abaaoud etc were up to. Not for a second!

And those who really didn't know - they don't get a free pass either. They do virtually nothing about it. Any initiative to help youngsters that are "at risk" of radicalisation or manipulation by some fundamentalist, always seems to come from non-muslims. I don't remember much, if any, "protests" or anything alike either, to judge the attrocities commited in the name of their religion.

And it doesn't stop at mere moderate muslims living in the west either.... Take Turkey and that horrible leader Erdogan for example. On the one hand, he fights IS (at least, so they claim) and on the other hand, he also bombs the Kurds, who's actions in Syria and Iraq against IS are nothing short of heroic.

Any and all decisions made in Europe that aren't to his liking, are met with accusations of islamophobia, racism, nazism, facism, etc. Meanwhile, he's slowly but surely turning Turkey, which arguably used to be one of the few success stories of Islamic nations in the region, into an islamic theocracy.

The other day, one of my collegues (IN BELGIUM) received a book in his mail. It was a 200 page piece of junk propaganda that was spread by the Turkish authorities. 200 pages of demonization and dehumanization of Kurds, atheists, gay people, ... calling them "scum" and "evil" and "terrorists". Then a whole section dedicated to Oktar Adnan's (another horrible person) creationism propaganda and about how "evil" mainstream biology is.

It sickens me to see all this happen with virtually no opposition at all. Well, that's not true... there is opposition. But it ends up in jail or dead or missing, whenever it speaks.

I really fear for the entire middle east. So much conflicts and so little "good guys". It's hatred versus hatred. Evil versus evil. Fire versus fire.

With innocent citizens who just want to get on with their lives, stuck in the middle of it all.

I have no answers to any of this. I don't know how to resolve any of this, consider that every outcome seems the same: some fundamentalist faction with "the one true" interpretation of the faith, installing a theocracy to stuff their particular version of "the faith" down the throats of their subjects.

That's really what I'm seeing happen there. War is one thing and the sooner it ends, the better. But there comes a time after the war. What will that look like? I'm having a REALLY hard time, picking a side while thinking "with them, it will be allright". There doesn't seem to be such a side. The Kurds seem like a good bet. But Turkey would never allow them to win. Seems like Erdogan would prefer an Islamic State as a neighbour instead of seeing Kurds be praised for anything.

...Maybe give it up, along with the superstitions that make people fear doing so. Free yourselves and make new friends... Try new things.

This. The only way forward in that part of the world, is to stop taking religion so seriously.
Look at the rest of the world. The west in particular. Letting go of radical superstition and embracing secularism, democratic values, freedom and basic human rights. That is what made the west what it is.

Is it perfect? Off course it isn't. But ask yourself a question....
Where would you rather live? Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iraq, ....
Or some west european country?

Where will you have the best chance of living your life how you see fit?
Where will you be able to best guarantee your child to grow up safely?
Where will you be able to provide your child with a good education, proper health care, etc?

It's not rocket science.


But, it's easier said then done. I'm not seeing any brightness in the middle east's near future. Radical islam, tribalism and sectarianism has to deep a root in those societes. The fire will keep on burning for quite some time. And no amount of bombs or western influence / propaganda is going to be able to estinguish that fire.

It's the people there, on the ground, that will have to estinguish it. It will keep on burning until a significant enough portion of the population will be so digusted by it, that they'll feel compelled to change their ways.

You can't "kill" ideas or beliefs.

For these reasons, I have no hope at all for the near future in any of those countries. A nasty group will take power and rule with a bronze age fist. Then another group will fight them, cease power and do exactly the same.

 

[Zoii]

such a shame - all the antiquities destroyed, The mosque housing John the Baptists Tomb, St Mary's church, Damascus - such a shame

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Typical genocide apologists, just like most of the world today. Not really surprising. It seems like the Muslims are some of the last remaining people with principles and morals. But that's to be expected, since it is, after all, Islam we strive to follow.

To play Rambo.

Be serious. Every single one of the Belgian youngsters who went over there, were low-life criminals. Drug dealers (and users), pimps, ... with a looooong track record of getting into fights of nonsense, bullying, robberies, petty crime, etc.

These guys went over there to "play war" and release all their hatred they've build up over the years in their toxic environments.

They were recruited by Islamists and convinced by cultivating / feeding their "resentment" of society (which they themselves rejected by prefering crime over education and an honest job) and making them believe they could go there and be a "hero".

Assad.... give me a break. Playing Rambo and being war heroes is what motivates them. They don't give jack about Assad's victims. Just like they don't give jack about their own victims. If they had the power to do so, they'ld do much worse then Assad has done to date.

1) Belgian fighters number around 600. Are you seriously going to use them to make your case that the rebels are as bad as Assad's regime when Assad's regime is committing a genocide against the majority of the population (i.e. Sunnis)? When his civilian victims number in the hundreds of thousands? How dumb.

2) Same tired arguments addressed here. One excerpt:

Consider the following infographics. Compare those who were detained with those who were killed under torture. Assuming that those who were killed under torture are included in the figures of the first infographic, then the percentage of the detainees killed under torture is at 13.85% by the regime. It is less than 1.2% for everyone else, even ISIS. So if it was really a question of firepower, the rebels should have had percentages similar to the regime's. And generally, most of those imprisoned by the rebels are combatants whereas the regime killed a 13-year-old boy for attending a protest.* Before they killed him, they smashed his knees, broke his jaw, cut off his penis, electrocuted him, and burned him with cigarettes.

3.) *why are most of the regime's prisoners non-combatants and most of the rebels' prisoners (or even ISIS' prisoners) combatants? Having the means to destroy as much as Assad isn't relevant here, because they can imprison whoever they want.

4.) OH, and:

"The foreign fighters we’ve contacted said that they left their home countries to fight for the “Umma” — referring to the saying often attributed to the Prophet Muhammad that when a single member of the Umma, or Muslim community, is hurt, all are hurt.

What draws these young men — and, to a lesser extent, women — to fight are what they regard as the indiscriminate killings of Muslim children, women and men in Syria. The use by President Bashar al-Assad’s regime of industrial-scale torture, barrel bombs and chemical attacks evokes a strong desire to defend fellow Muslims.


This is the motive described by a former Dutch soldier known to us as Yilmaz, who became well known after being interviewed for a Dutch television news program. He said he had no intention of going back to the Netherlands unless it was to see his family — and certainly not to commit an attack in Europe. We, too, affirmed this by communicating with Yilmaz in Syria via his social networking account. Another Dutch fighter in Syria we contacted, the producer of the Dutch-made jihadist video “Oh Oh Aleppo,” is equally clear about his reasons for fighting in Syria; he expressed no intention of attacking the West."

Overblown Fears of Foreign Fighters

5.) It's the same reasoning young Muslim men went to Bosnia to fight. Or to Chechnya. Or Afghanistan against the Soviets. Or even Libya. And for all of those, they were considered heroes. But because of the perfect storm of some criminal Muslims committing the atrocious act of 9/11, the attack in Benghazi, & ISIS rising + the alt-left & alt-right both liking Russia/Iran/Assad and affecting mainstream media, being on the side of justice has flown out the window because of grief, anger, and hatred.

You are blinded by your ideology. You just don't see it.

Likewise. (also, what's my ideology? Being against genocidal dictators and being able to see who is objectively worse in nearly every way I can imagine? I'll be gladly blinded by that. Way better than the alternative of trying to seek to equate a genocidal terrorist with those not as bad as him because I hate to admit that the "secularist" who shows fake support for some Christians is way worse than religious Muslims who actually do care about civilians and it hurts me to admit that they are not the typical evil Muslim villains I want to portray them as)

At no point would I ever defend Assad.

You look for lame excuses to try to favor Assad over the opposition. "If not worse" lol.

But you need to understand that the "opposition" factions you support, are just as bad - if not worse.

Tell me in what way they are just as bad, if not worse. Go ahead. Tell me how the opposition has raped women with rats until they died, taking an even more horrifying turn than the typical rapes in Syria committed by the regime. Tell me how the opposition burned off the face of a 17-year-old non-combatant after the guards found out he was from a certain city and left him to die a slow, agonizing death. Tell me how an opposition member defected and smuggled something similar to Caesar's photographs. Tell me how the opposition committed the vast majority of the sectarian massacres. Tell me how the opposition released nerve agent on children in regime-held areas and killed 1,400 people in a single day through that attack. Tell me how the opposition is literally starving children and adults to death. Tell me how the opposition tortured a 13-year-old non-combatant in May 2011 by cutting off his penis, breaking his jaw, shattering his knees, burning him with cigarettes, electrocuting him, and beating him. Tell me how the opposition told his parents to stop asking about their child; to just make a new one. Tell me how the opposition buries Alawites alive, trying to force them to say beliefs against their religion and god(s). Tell me how the opposition beats people while forcing them to say that a human is their god. Kills them while forcing them to say that. Rapes them while forcing them to say that. Tell me how the opposition went door-to-door in multiple Alawite villages to gather the inhabitants in one room and shooting them, including many infants and children, like the regime did in Sunni villages.

Go on. I will wait. And I guarantee I will be waiting forever, because no matter what you say, the opposition is no where as bad as the regime. Shame on you for insisting on it.

The specific faction you are supporting now, wants to install a sharia ruled salafist islamic state in syria, with the backing of Saudi Arabia.

That just tells me you have no idea what you're talking about lol. With the backing of Saudi Arabia? looool. Lemme guess. You kinda like Iran (at least more than Saudi Arabia), wouldn't go on about Iran's unending support of Assad like you would about this supposed Saudi-backed faction you're saying I support (and use that as an excuse to lambast Assad), and were a big supporter of the Iran deal.

Do you honestly believe that that would improve the lives of Syrians? Do you honestly believe that that is the way forward for them?

Yeah. Life in Idlib is more favored by the majority of the Syrian people than life under regime areas (though they might flee rebel-held areas because of the regime's bombing). But just like the people on this forum before, they couldn't believe that the Syrian people were actually happy about Idlib being cleansed of regime forces and liberated by the opposition. Guess what, naysayers? The people still like Idlib under the control of the rebels rather than Assad 2 years later. And also guess what? There are some protests against some factions and *shock, gasp, horror*, this Islamic Syrian government in Idlib doesn't respond like the regime.

It isn't obvious at all, actually.

K bro. Just like it wasn't at all obvious that the side fighting the Nazis wasn't the good side. If that's what helps you sleep at night to justify your lack of condemnation against Assad (and making him equal to the side that's fighting him), well, I wouldn't want to be you on the Day of Judgement.

Suppose Hitler is fighting against Stalin and that Staling is trying to carry out genocide against the nazi's.

Who's the good guy there? By your logic, it would be Hitler.

No, the proper analogy is that Hitler is fighting against the uprising in the Warsaw ghetto. By your logic, the resistance in the Warsaw ghetto is filled with terrorists and they're just as bad as Hitler.

Or maybe another analogy is the fight against apartheid in South Africa, but you trying to make the anti-apartheid group as bad as (or worse than) those they fought against because SOME actually used crimes against civilians.

One thing I'll agree on, is that the actual citizens are the victims here and it is incredibly tragic.

The Syrians don't want peoples' crocodile tears when they ignore what the Syrians are actually saying.

You'd probably want to shake and convince this young man that his experiences in Syria are wrong and that both sides are actually just as bad as each other (and the one that is fighting against the ones killing his loved ones are possibly even worse!). That he, someone living in Syria and through the genocide, should listen to you & think the rebels are just as bad as Assad, Putin, & Khomeini. For shame.

"We know that you got bored from our blood pictures, But We will continue appealing to you. Bashar Al-assad, potin and khaminei killed our childhood. Save us before it is too late. What is the world, which can send machines to the martian and can't do anything to stop killing people

No, that's not a proper analogy at all.

It's exactly the appropriate analogy, but you don't want to hear it because you know that would mean you're doing the equivalent of supporting Hitler against the resistance and you could NEVER support Hitler against the uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto.

There are so many sides to this conflict and most of them are just as evil as the next.

Repeating that won't make it true, especially in the face of facts.

I'm not making anything up.
I never mentioned number of victims.

I'm just looking over the edge.
If some jihadi salafist faction defeats Assad and ceases power, what will happen in your opinion? Do you think life will be nice there then?

Yeah, take a look over the edge and take a look at Idlib where the rebels have been in control for 2 years. Life is nice there, despite the bombing that Assad and allies subject them to.

Think again.

I do, which is why I'm against Assad and allies more than anyone in this conflict. You should think again, though.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Fight, play victim. Over and over, again and again. That's Islam.

...Maybe give it up, along with the superstitions that make people fear doing so. Free yourselves and make new friends... Try new things.

Don't worry your precious head over genocide. The real men and women in Syria will either stop it or die trying. They know the world, much like you and this forum, doesn't really care. Don't worry, you can continue to blame the victims because they aren't Christians (and boy, if they were Christians, we wouldn't hear the end of it from you, especially if Assad's regime = religious Sunni Muslims).

As the Arabic proverb goes, the dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

such a shame - all the antiquities destroyed, The mosque housing John the Baptists Tomb, St Mary's church, Damascus - such a shame

Yeah, such a shame. Bigger shame is the hundreds of thousands of civilians that have been killed at the hand of the Assad's regime, yet we still have people somehow defending Assad's regime or blaming the opposition. But God is the All-Seeing and we all shall return to Him for judgement. I feel comfort in knowing that.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

This is actually pretty fitting in light of the poster who mentioned Turkey's bombing of Kurds (when he actually means YPG which has been aiding the regime and displacing Arabs from their homes), using stronger words against Turkey's actions and the rebels than he does about Assad or the YPG:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2118517325101543

Powerful speech by a father in #Ghouta: "Is the blood of a child in Ghouta cheaper then the blood of a child in Kobani?"

 

[Landon Caeli]

Don't worry your precious head over genocide. The real men and women in Syria will either stop it or die trying. They know the world, much like you and this forum, doesn't really care. Don't worry, you can continue to blame the victims because they aren't Christians (and boy, if they were Christians, we wouldn't hear the end of it from you, especially if Assad's regime = religious Sunni Muslims).

As the Arabic proverb goes, the dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.



Yeah, such a shame. Bigger shame is the hundreds of thousands of civilians that have been killed at the hand of the Assad's regime, yet we still have people somehow defending Assad's regime or blaming the opposition. But God is the All-Seeing and we all shall return to Him for judgement. I feel comfort in knowing that.

You shouldn't worry either. There's nothing either of us can do. It is what it is.

The lesson learned is that religious extremism is stupid. It retards human development. Everyone should be friendly and socially lenient.

 

[Zoii]

Don't worry your precious head over genocide. The real men and women in Syria will either stop it or die trying. They know the world, much like you and this forum, doesn't really care. Don't worry, you can continue to blame the victims because they aren't Christians (and boy, if they were Christians, we wouldn't hear the end of it from you, especially if Assad's regime = religious Sunni Muslims).

As the Arabic proverb goes, the dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.



Yeah, such a shame. Bigger shame is the hundreds of thousands of civilians that have been killed at the hand of the Assad's regime, yet we still have people somehow defending Assad's regime or blaming the opposition. But God is the All-Seeing and we all shall return to Him for judgement. I feel comfort in knowing that.

Terrible loss of life and destruction to the nations infrastructure.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Typical genocide apologists

I didn't defend or justify genocide or any such evil actions, in any way.

You need to get of your high-horse, lose the blinders and consider reality as well as what I am REALLY saying.

It seems like the Muslims are some of the last remaining people with principles and morals

Right, right.... of with their heads! So moral.

But that's to be expected, since it is, after all, Islam we strive to follow.

Uhu, uhu.
Because muslims are such a great example to the civilised world, ha?

Looked around at living standards in the islamic middle east lately?
Ow, right, it's all the fault of the evil empirial west, I bet?
It's the evil westerners who have installed shariah laws in some of those countries, I bet?

What's next? ISIS was founded by Obama?

1) Belgian fighters number around 600. Are you seriously going to use them to make your case that the rebels are as bad as Assad's regime when Assad's regime is committing a genocide against the majority of the population (i.e. Sunnis)? When his civilian victims number in the hundreds of thousands? How dumb.

Not a single of those 600 went their for "humanitarian" reasons. All of them went their to join extremists. All of them went their after being convinced by extremist jihadi's to go there. Maybe look up "Shariah4Belgium" and read. It's evil nutcases like them that brainwashed the easily manipulated into going there to play Rambo and be some kind of war hero and martyr. Most of them trained to return to the west and spread death, destruction and terror. Some of them also succeeded in that.

The other thousands of "foreign fighters", are mostly the same.
ISIS and al nusrah are basically made up of foreigners who seek to overthrow Assad and install brutal islamic shariah instead.

You can consider that an improvement if you want... I don't. To me, it's like replacing Stalin with Hitler.

2) Same tired arguments addressed here. One excerpt:

Consider the following infographics. Compare those who were detained with those who were killed under torture. Assuming that those who were killed under torture are included in the figures of the first infographic, then the percentage of the detainees killed under torture is at 13.85% by the regime. It is less than 1.2% for everyone else, even ISIS. So if it was really a question of firepower, the rebels should have had percentages similar to the regime's. And generally, most of those imprisoned by the rebels are combatants whereas the regime killed a 13-year-old boy for attending a protest.* Before they killed him, they smashed his knees, broke his jaw, cut off his penis, electrocuted him, and burned him with cigarettes.

3.) *why are most of the regime's prisoners non-combatants and most of the rebels' prisoners (or even ISIS' prisoners) combatants? Having the means to destroy as much as Assad isn't relevant here, because they can imprison whoever they want.

4.) OH, and:

"The foreign fighters we’ve contacted said that they left their home countries to fight for the “Umma” — referring to the saying often attributed to the Prophet Muhammad that when a single member of the Umma, or Muslim community, is hurt, all are hurt.

What draws these young men — and, to a lesser extent, women — to fight are what they regard as the indiscriminate killings of Muslim children, women and men in Syria. The use by President Bashar al-Assad’s regime of industrial-scale torture, barrel bombs and chemical attacks evokes a strong desire to defend fellow Muslims.


This is the motive described by a former Dutch soldier known to us as Yilmaz, who became well known after being interviewed for a Dutch television news program. He said he had no intention of going back to the Netherlands unless it was to see his family — and certainly not to commit an attack in Europe. We, too, affirmed this by communicating with Yilmaz in Syria via his social networking account. Another Dutch fighter in Syria we contacted, the producer of the Dutch-made jihadist video “Oh Oh Aleppo,” is equally clear about his reasons for fighting in Syria; he expressed no intention of attacking the West."

Overblown Fears of Foreign Fighters

5.) It's the same reasoning young Muslim men went to Bosnia to fight. Or to Chechnya. Or Afghanistan against the Soviets. Or even Libya. And for all of those, they were considered heroes. But because of the perfect storm of some criminal Muslims committing the atrocious act of 9/11, the attack in Benghazi, & ISIS rising + the alt-left & alt-right both liking Russia/Iran/Assad and affecting mainstream media, being on the side of justice has flown out the window because of grief, anger, and hatred.



Likewise. (also, what's my ideology? Being against genocidal dictators and being able to see who is objectively worse in nearly every way I can imagine? I'll be gladly blinded by that. Way better than the alternative of trying to seek to equate a genocidal terrorist with those not as bad as him because I hate to admit that the "secularist" who shows fake support for some Christians is way worse than religious Muslims who actually do care about civilians and it hurts me to admit that they are not the typical evil Muslim villains I want to portray them as)



You look for lame excuses to try to favor Assad over the opposition. "If not worse" lol.



Tell me in what way they are just as bad, if not worse. Go ahead. Tell me how the opposition has raped women with rats until they died, taking an even more horrifying turn than the typical rapes in Syria committed by the regime. Tell me how the opposition burned off the face of a 17-year-old non-combatant after the guards found out he was from a certain city and left him to die a slow, agonizing death. Tell me how an opposition member defected and smuggled something similar to Caesar's photographs. Tell me how the opposition committed the vast majority of the sectarian massacres. Tell me how the opposition released nerve agent on children in regime-held areas and killed 1,400 people in a single day through that attack. Tell me how the opposition is literally starving children and adults to death. Tell me how the opposition tortured a 13-year-old non-combatant in May 2011 by cutting off his penis, breaking his jaw, shattering his knees, burning him with cigarettes, electrocuting him, and beating him. Tell me how the opposition told his parents to stop asking about their child; to just make a new one. Tell me how the opposition buries Alawites alive, trying to force them to say beliefs against their religion and god(s). Tell me how the opposition beats people while forcing them to say that a human is their god. Kills them while forcing them to say that. Rapes them while forcing them to say that. Tell me how the opposition went door-to-door in multiple Alawite villages to gather the inhabitants in one room and shooting them, including many infants and children, like the regime did in Sunni villages.

Go on. I will wait. And I guarantee I will be waiting forever, because no matter what you say, the opposition is no where as bad as the regime. Shame on you for insisting on it.



That just tells me you have no idea what you're talking about lol. With the backing of Saudi Arabia? looool. Lemme guess. You kinda like Iran (at least more than Saudi Arabia), wouldn't go on about Iran's unending support of Assad like you would about this supposed Saudi-backed faction you're saying I support (and use that as an excuse to lambast Assad), and were a big supporter of the Iran deal.



Yeah. Life in Idlib is more favored by the majority of the Syrian people than life under regime areas (though they might flee rebel-held areas because of the regime's bombing). But just like the people on this forum before, they couldn't believe that the Syrian people were actually happy about Idlib being cleansed of regime forces and liberated by the opposition. Guess what, naysayers? The people still like Idlib under the control of the rebels rather than Assad 2 years later. And also guess what? There are some protests against some factions and *shock, gasp, horror*, this Islamic Syrian government in Idlib doesn't respond like the regime.



K bro. Just like it wasn't at all obvious that the side fighting the Nazis wasn't the good side. If that's what helps you sleep at night to justify your lack of condemnation against Assad (and making him equal to the side that's fighting him), well, I wouldn't want to be you on the Day of Judgement.



No, the proper analogy is that Hitler is fighting against the uprising in the Warsaw ghetto. By your logic, the resistance in the Warsaw ghetto is filled with terrorists and they're just as bad as Hitler.

Or maybe another analogy is the fight against apartheid in South Africa, but you trying to make the anti-apartheid group as bad as (or worse than) those they fought against because SOME actually used crimes against civilians.



The Syrians don't want peoples' crocodile tears when they ignore what the Syrians are actually saying.

You'd probably want to shake and convince this young man that his experiences in Syria are wrong and that both sides are actually just as bad as each other (and the one that is fighting against the ones killing his loved ones are possibly even worse!). That he, someone living in Syria and through the genocide, should listen to you & think the rebels are just as bad as Assad, Putin, & Khomeini. For shame.

"We know that you got bored from our blood pictures, But We will continue appealing to you. Bashar Al-assad, potin and khaminei killed our childhood. Save us before it is too late. What is the world, which can send machines to the martian and can't do anything to stop killing people



It's exactly the appropriate analogy, but you don't want to hear it because you know that would mean you're doing the equivalent of supporting Hitler against the resistance and you could NEVER support Hitler against the uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto.



Repeating that won't make it true, especially in the face of facts.



Yeah, take a look over the edge and take a look at Idlib where the rebels have been in control for 2 years. Life is nice there, despite the bombing that Assad and allies subject them to.



I do, which is why I'm against Assad and allies more than anyone in this conflict. You should think again, though.

None of this is relevant to the point I am making.

But I'm not counting on a jihadi supporter to think clearly and objectively about this....

 

[DogmaHunter]

Don't worry your precious head over genocide. The real men and women in Syria will either stop it or die trying. They know the world, much like you and this forum, doesn't really care. Don't worry, you can continue to blame the victims because they aren't Christians (and boy, if they were Christians, we wouldn't hear the end of it from you, especially if Assad's regime = religious Sunni Muslims).

Everybody knows that the VAST majority of today's terrorists are muslims.
But you don't seem to care much about that.

Just like their own propaganda channels, you can only bark about Assad. You can't see how both sides (for the most part) are just different sides of the same coin.

The only reason Assad makes more victims, is because he has the opportunity to do so. If the tables were turned, it wouldn't be any different. And you know it.

Put a nuke somewhere in a western city and hand over the detonator to one of those islamists that you idolize and he wouldn't hesitate for a second to push the button. He'ld even be proud of it. He'ld be called a hero and the internet would be flooded with propaganda about his accomplishment.

And you know it.

I asked you a question previously.....
Suppose one of those islamist factions, who have openly stated that their goal is an islamic state with the rule of shariah, succeed in overthrowing Assad an ceasing power.... What do you think will happen next?

Yet another oppressive and brutal islamic regime in that part of the world?
Or would it become a bastion of multi-cultural respect, where democratic and human rights values would be very important?

Don't lie now........

Yeah, such a shame. Bigger shame is the hundreds of thousands of civilians that have been killed at the hand of the Assad's regime, yet we still have people somehow defending Assad's regime or blaming the opposition.

Who here is defending Assad's regime?

But God is the All-Seeing and we all shall return to Him for judgement. I feel comfort in knowing that.

So do all the jihadi's.

 

[DogmaHunter]

This is actually pretty fitting in light of the poster who mentioned Turkey's bombing of Kurds (when he actually means YPG which has been aiding the regime and displacing Arabs from their homes)

YPG = kurds.

Aiding the regime? Are you talking about Assad's regime?
If yes, then what are you smoking?

You aren't aware of Turkey's (or rather: Erdogan's) hatred of Kurds?
You aren't aware how the YPG makes up for the main faction of SDF?
You aren't aware how the YPG looks to be the most effective opposition of ISIS?

using stronger words against Turkey's actions and the rebels than he does about Assad or the YPG

And for good reason.

First, an independent UN report concluded that there was exactly zero evidence of YPG genocide.

Second, Erdogan is a sneaky, backstabbing, liar. At least Assad is open and honest about how evil he is. Erdogan - not so much. The guy is a very evil and dangerous man. Did you not read about the 200-page propaganda book that was distributed even here in Belgium? How many political opposers and journalists as he arrested by now? 20.000? 30.000?

The guy is covertly doing everything he can to "restore" the Ottoman empire. He's poking around in conflicts and making them worse by doing so. There's loads of evidence of him actually aiding Daesh as well.

For the upteenth time: there are almost no "good guys" in this conflict. Each of them's cruelty and barbarism is only matched by their peers or opposers. They are all the same.

Evil, power hungry people with no ethics, no respect and rather ridiculous religious beliefs.
It's barbarism all the way down.

As I said, I have no answers to this conflict. There's nothing we can do. Their are so many factions here, each operating out of their own interests, each with their own ideologies and ideas, that it's almost impossible to get them to lay down the weapons and talk. They aren't interested in talking. They are only interested in killing all those that don't agree with them.

Sectarianism and religious nonsense, that's all this is.
And I'm not seeing it end any time soon.

If Assad and his cohorts are defeated tomorrow, another nutcase will take his place and it will simply continue.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Islam eventually plows over everything. Including Islam. Like a beast devouring its own tail. And eating itself in the process.

Different appearances of Islam can never solve the problems caused and suffered by Muslims. Only the Isa of the Injil can.

And you can not blame everything on the West. Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen are not obscenely difficult places to live because of Christianity, non-Muslims, the West, or Israel.