Sodom and Gomorrah

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I just wanted to add that under the OT law, impure and unclean were kind of interchangeable. So in their culture, the word meant a lot more than just sex.

Yes,
the way men are then and today,
if a man stared wrong at one man's wife or sister
he might be murdered.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

He clearly has not intervened to stop evil throughout history as he did during Sodom and Gomorrah. Evil has continued.

?
Yes, this is exactly fulfilling prophesy as HIS WORD SAYS.
HE did not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah
until HE PLEASED.
HE has said when HE comes to destroy the wicked arrayed against Jerusalem HE will come quickly - there will be no argument and no escape and no delay.

Meantime, yes, the world is full of evil (everywhere including usa politics and medicine and education and industry and computers and corporations) that is destroying and would destroy everyone if allowed to continue - no one would survive not even the elect if YHWH did not shorten the days so they could survive.

 

[ken777]

I just wanted to add that under the OT law, impure and unclean were kind of interchangeable. So in their culture, the word meant a lot more than just sex.

Yes, but the question is whether it means sexual immorality in its context in the NT. The words used by Peter & Jude leave no doubt that Sodom was destroyed because of sexual immorality. The similarity between 2 Peter 2:6-7 & Jude 1:7 indicate that it was not only sexual immorality, but perversion.

As to the outcry against Sodom, my personal opinion is that it is related to the activity of angels - compare 2 Peter 2:10-11 and Jude 1:8-10.

 

[Ken Behrens]

Yes, but the question is whether it means sexual immorality in its context in the NT. The words used by Peter & Jude leave no doubt that Sodom was destroyed because of sexual immorality. The similarity between 2 Peter 2:6-7 & Jude 1:7 indicate that it was not only sexual immorality, but perversion.

As to the outcry against Sodom, my personal opinion is that it is related to the activity of angels - compare 2 Peter 2:10-11 and Jude 1:8-10.

I just don't get that out of the Greek in Pet. and it seems to me that Jude 7 is setting up fr Jude 8, and making the sexual sin just a commentary of the general state of sin overall. Agreed, a lot of it comes down to personal opinion.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Agreed, a lot of it comes down to personal opinion.

Let this never be said.
That's almost as bad, or worse sometimes,
as personal interpretation
when YHWH says don't.

 

[tatteredsoul]

I think a clue to the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah is found in Genesis 19:4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. (NIV)

Clearly there was a widespread acceptance of sexual perversion although obviously not everyone would have been homosexual. After giving a graphic description of homosexual behaviour Paul says: Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. (Romans 1:32)

If Jesus' reference to "the days of Lot" (Luke 17:28-30) is a sign of His return, then surely the legalization of same sex marriage - and the prosecution of those who have declined to participate - points to recent developments in western society.

In an apocryphal book, Sodomites would prey on poor people with no money by giving them some coins, publicly humiliating them and then beating the person nearly to death. Afterward, each person would take back their respective coins and send the traveller/visitor on his or her way. They did this often.

Then, the Sodomites had a pattern of capturing peolle, tying them to "posts" in public, and sexual and physically abuse them while they torture them at the same time. They did this often.

So, these people were more than just "homosexual," or "inhospitable." They were downright savage.

 

[Ken Behrens]

Let this never be said.
That's almost as bad, or worse sometimes,
as personal interpretation
when YHWH says don't.

He does? Where?
And "sometimes" still requires a personal opinion as to which times those are.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

He does? Where?
And "sometimes" still requires a personal opinion as to which times those are.

It takes some time to find ; maybe not too long if someone knows a good way to search, or has a good memory of this.

Paul , in a paraphrase translation or word study,
says plainly that
no one's opinion matters - Paul speaking "what I say or what you say is not what's important -
what YHWH says and does is what is important".
This is
confirmed in Y'SHUA'S statement "the flesh profits nothing"
with similar contrast "it is the SPIRIT who / or that/ gives life"
and
"what is born of the flesh [in this case "opinions"] is flesh,
and profits nothing".
and likewise throughout SCRIPTURE/ GOD'S WORD
whenever
referring to mankind/ man's ways/ man's thoughts/ man's hearts
man's wisdom and man's knowledge. i.e. temporal / carnal.

 

[Ken Behrens]

It takes some time to find ; maybe not too long if someone knows a good way to search, or has a good memory of this.

Paul , in a paraphrase translation or word study,
says plainly that
no one's opinion matters - Paul speaking "what I say or what you say is not what's important -
what YHWH says and does is what is important".
This is
confirmed in Y'SHUA'S statement "the flesh profits nothing"
with similar contrast "it is the SPIRIT who / or that/ gives life"
and
"what is born of the flesh [in this case "opinions"] is flesh,
and profits nothing".
and likewise throughout SCRIPTURE/ GOD'S WORD
whenever
referring to mankind/ man's ways/ man's thoughts/ man's hearts
man's wisdom and man's knowledge. i.e. temporal / carnal.

Did I misread your first post on this? I thought you said YHWH says we are not supposed to go by our opinions. I don't know where that is, which is why I asked you to find it. You have not yet found it. Just because the flesh profits nothing and is not important, does not mean I cannot use it. That's a different matter.