so what's with this notion part ll

[Michie]

The reason that we aren't under as great an attack by heterosexual sinners is because we ignore them. We don't object to the government recognizing such shams as marriages after divorce without annulment, marriages of convenience, marriages which are not open to life, etc. If we actively tried to keep the government from recorganizing their marriages, they would take the track of being hostile to us too, rather than their current path of merely pointing and laughing. We don't campaign to keep hospitals from performing sterilizations, we don't campaign to keep our government from providing contraceptives to its servicemen and women, we just oppose the gays who want to marry. I suspect they'd have a greater respect for us if we were a little more consistent.

Well it is a little easier for straight couples to hide their sins than openly gay people.

 

[WarriorAngel]

He said: GOD WANTS MERCY, NOT SACRIFICE.

'Pick up your cross...follow Me.' IS a sacrifice.
No Catholic teaching says otherwise or that we do not have sacrifices.

Wait. What? So this should be like Heaven because God said so and in Heaven there are no genders or marriage and you are married because...God said so? I thought God wanted us to be like in Heaven which means no marriage?

'Be fruitful and multiply...' marriage is a sacrament for a good reason - on earth so we procreate souls for Heaven.

IN Heaven we will not marry. We will be non sexual.
On earth - we marry as it is ordained to do so to fill the earth and have children.


2Matthew 19:4
Who answering, said to them: Have ye not read, that he who made man from the beginning, Made them male and female? And he said:
[5] For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh. [6] Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let no man put asunder. http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=19&l=7#x

If God can "ordain" you to be married even though that isn't like it is in Heaven, why can't he ordain gay people to be married, too?

Because it is an abomination to Him [Leviticus]- it goes against how He created us to be. AS i quoted above....is what marriage is.


Matthew 19:4
Have ye not read, that he who made man from the beginning, Made them male and female?

[6] Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh.




The male and female were made for one another. They become one in flesh because this is how they were created to be.
Romans says SSA who do these things will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.
Read the very first Chapter.

Wow, really? Maybe you wouldn't have gotten so tired of him if you thought of sexual intimacy as something other than FORNICATING.

I didnt say i am tired of him - marriage isnt easy. I am tired of the work it takes...
BUT as a Christian i must persevere. Not give in to temptation to give up.

DO you understand?

Everyone on earth has crosses - we take them and we carry them.

So now you're just mad because gay people are having all the great sex without the burden of marriage and you are stuck with a pot-bellied stogie-sucker?

Actually sex is not the cement in marriage nor should it be the focal point of marriage - it is an effect from the love a union in the sacrament.

My husband is attractive imho - that's not the point.
However; how do i explain marriage to someone who thinks sex has to be great in order for it to a good relationship?
You got it backwards...that is how lust works.

They are JUST LIKE YOU - except not so bitter. They love each other as straight folks do, they have homes and jobs and take vacations and mow their lawns and have family dinners and squabbles and - how on earth did you decide it was all about a series of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]?

They also get mad, fall out of love, break up and find other relationships. Just like straight folks do.

BUT straight folks shouldnt do.
In Catholicism marriage is for life.... 20-50-70 years it doesnt matter.


AND since you probably wont be going to a marriage retreat - you have no idea what they teach.

Love is not the infatuation phase - it is the choice you make to keep WORKING on the marriage.

EVERYTHING i am telling you is straight out of our pre marriage classes we had to take.

I used to live next door to a woman like you. Really miserable human being. Stuck it out for 35 years. Then he left. He had two women on the hook.

Ahhh - an adulterer who get top billing.

Shucks and here i thot no one liked them.

You have an issue with the reality of marriage?

Most married ppl will tell you including our friend Bene who admitted in the past she didnt care - over it - whatever - with her husband.
Why?
It comes and goes in phases and - it is sheer work.

You must have this illusion marriage is some wonderful lets play house moment that lasts. REALITY comes eventually.

BTW - i hope am not a miserable person - but hey if you like to think so - good for you.

Yeah, they were Catholic. Know what? If he leaves, you can't stop him from divorcing you. He might want more for himself than to be married to the martyr of the century. This neighbor did. Know what else? She is WAY happier now. Which I told her she would be.

Naturally if she is unhappy it is because he was neglecting her and dividing his affections elsewhere.

No one can stop anyone else - we have free will. Yes anyone can leave at any time.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Well it is a little easier for straight couples to hide their sins than openly gay people.

Tis true...

 

[benedictaoo]

Well it is a little easier for straight couples to hide their sins than openly gay people.

right... so that makes them more lovable to God? Because they can't be fake?

 

[benedictaoo]

What are you saying? That homosexual sex is not against Church teaching? That homosexual "marriage" is not against Church teaching? Are you seriously saying that?

ah, NO!!!!!

Where in what I said, said that?

Y'all gotta stop doing this. For real... it makes y'all look so bad.

Why do you assume to know what people are thinking? I don't know people who "think" the things you say we think. And I have not heard of any heterosexual married people clamoring to make sodomy a natural accepted practice. Again, it is the homosexual activists trying to force their beliefs and desires on our moral code, that is causing backlash, and not whatever it is they are doing behind closed doors.

That is the point! straight ppl can be just as deviant... even married Catholics can be just as deviant- they just think as long as it all end the right way- its all good.

that is the whole point! they can hide it and look like living saints to the rest, where gay ppl wear it on their sleeve.

Truth is, you don't know what anyone does behind closed doors and they don't get to be ridiculed and preached at and have their souls saved like the gays do.


you think because of that, that we can't visibly see what straight ppl do - gays are some how worse sinners. That is not what the Church teaches and its not even rational to conclude that.

You are just reaching for straws trying to find a reason to think heterosexual sins are prettier than gay sins.

They aren't- they just can be faked about it.

and gays have it worse because two gay men waking into Mass, who may be just friends and both are chaste, the high and mighty Catholics will assume they are rotten dirty sinners, where the nice little un married couple, they could be gettin it on like Donkey Kong but they're given the befit of the doubt and don't get stared at with dagger's, like the gays do.

that is the discrimination that is so embedded, that should try to weed out of our hearts.

 

[benedictaoo]

Thats often how it seems.
Taking a portion of the CCC that we love SSA as tho the Church exonerates the sin of the act.

Try as you might - some cant seem to separate these.
Agree.

Knock it off because you are really P me off like you did before with your "baring a false witness".

STOP IT! I have NOT ONCE SAID THAT GAY SEX IS OKAY.

SSA is NOT a sin and your pope said so.

Do you even know what sin in the committed sense is??!! Having a SSA is not a committed sin. having a disordered passion is NOT a committed sin! a gay person is not in sin for having a SSA.

WHEN are you gonna get this through to your head!?

 

[benedictaoo]

The reason that we aren't under as great an attack by heterosexual sinners is because we ignore them. We don't object to the government recognizing such shams as marriages after divorce without annulment, marriages of convenience, marriages which are not open to life, etc. If we actively tried to keep the government from recorganizing their marriages, they would take the track of being hostile to us too, rather than their current path of merely pointing and laughing. We don't campaign to keep hospitals from performing sterilizations, we don't campaign to keep our government from providing contraceptives to its servicemen and women, we just oppose the gays who want to marry. I suspect they'd have a greater respect for us if we were a little more consistent.

A freakin men.

The road to hell is paved with the sexual sins of heterosexuals but these people here actually think that because objectively, (key word here) objectively , hetro sex can be made right- and its fundamentally ordered, only when it is right- somehow the sins of all those straight people, who don't do it right, somehow they aren't as bad off soul wise and they get a pass.

What is that??

 

[WarriorAngel]

ah, NO!!!!!

Where in what I said, said that?

Y'all gotta stop doing this. For real... it makes y'all look so bad.





That is the point! straight ppl can be just as deviant... even married Catholics can be just as deviant- they just think as long as it all end the right way- its all good.

that is the whole point! they can hide it and look like living saints to the rest, where gay ppl wear it on their sleeve.

Truth is, you don't know what anyone does behind closed doors and they don't get to be ridiculed and preached at and have their souls saved like the gays do.


you think because of that, that we can't visibly see what straight ppl do - gays are some how worse sinners. That is not what the Church teaches and its not even rational to conclude that.

You are just reaching for straws trying to find a reason to think heterosexual sins are prettier than gay sins.

They aren't- they just can be faked about it.

and gays have it worse because two gay men waking into Mass, who may be just friends and both are chaste, the high and mighty Catholics will assume they are rotten dirty sinners, where the nice little un married couple, they could be gettin it on like Donkey Kong but they're given the befit of the doubt and don't get stared at with dagger's, like the gays do.

that is the discrimination that is so embedded, that should try to weed out of our hearts.

AND I FIND IT JUST AS NASTY TO SEE ADULTERY ON TV AS ENTERTAINMENT.

I do not pick and chose what i defend a proclivity as a seeming honor to sin...
I would never say 'Get over it - adultery is here to stay.' about all the trash on tv. Giving scandal to impressionable teens, young people.

Knock it off because you are really P me off like you did before with your "baring a false witness".

STOP IT! I have NOT ONCE SAID THAT GAY SEX IS OKAY.

SSA is NOT a sin and your pope said so.

Do you even know what sin in the committed sense is??!! Having a SSA is not a committed sin. having a disordered passion is NOT a committed sin! a gay person is not in sin for having a SSA.

WHEN are you gonna get this through to your head!?

It is really unfortunate you think the Catechism says only one thing and goes no further - when i have been in fact trying to teach what it states about SSA - and giving it up and replaced for God...

YOU TELL US IT IS IMPOSSIBLE...your opinion. [Yours alone]
I said it takes a long time - but it is possible.,

NOW read the Catechism for yourself.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 3 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 2 ARTICLE 6

The integrity of the person
2338 The chaste person maintains the integrity of the powers of life and love placed in him. This integrity ensures the unity of the person; it is opposed to any behavior that would impair it. It tolerates neither a double life nor duplicity in speech.125
2339 Chastity includes an apprenticeship in self-mastery which is a training in human freedom. The alternative is clear: either man governs his passions and finds peace, or he lets himself be dominated by them and becomes unhappy.126 "Man's dignity therefore requires him to act out of conscious and free choice, as moved and drawn in a personal way from within, and not by blind impulses in himself or by mere external constraint. Man gains such dignity when, ridding himself of all slavery to the passions, he presses forward to his goal by freely choosing what is good and, by his diligence and skill, effectively secures for himself the means suited to this end."127

2340 Whoever wants to remain faithful to his baptismal promises and resist temptations will want to adopt the means for doing so: self-knowledge, practice of an ascesis adapted to the situations that confront him, obedience to God's commandments, exercise of the moral virtues, and fidelity to prayer. "Indeed it is through chastity that we are gathered together and led back to the unity from which we were fragmented into multiplicity."128
2341 The virtue of chastity comes under the cardinal virtue of temperance, which seeks to permeate the passions and appetites of the senses with reason.
2342 Self-mastery is a long and exacting work. One can never consider it acquired once and for all. It presupposes renewed effort at all stages of life.129 The effort required can be more intense in certain periods, such as when the personality is being formed during childhood and adolescence.
2343 Chastity has laws of growth which progress through stages marked by imperfection and too often by sin. "Man . . . day by day builds himself up through his many free decisions; and so he knows, loves, and accomplishes moral good by stages of growth."130
2344 Chastity represents an eminently personal task; it also involves a cultural effort, for there is "an interdependence between personal betterment and the improvement of society."131 Chastity presupposes respect for the rights of the person, in particular the right to receive information and an education that respect the moral and spiritual dimensions of human life.

.
2345 Chastity is a moral virtue. It is also a gift from God, a grace, a fruit of spiritual effort.132 The Holy Spirit enables one whom the water of Baptism has regenerated to imitate the purity of Christ.133




The integrality of the gift of self


2348 All the baptized are called to chastity. The Christian has "put on Christ,"135 the model for all chastity. All Christ's faithful are called to lead a chaste life in keeping with their particular states of life. At the moment of his Baptism, the Christian is pledged to lead his affective life in chastity.
2349 "People should cultivate [chastity] in the way that is suited to their state of life. Some profess virginity or consecrated celibacy which enables them to give themselves to God alone with an undivided heart in a remarkable manner. Others live in the way prescribed for all by the moral law, whether they are married or single."136 Married people are called to live conjugal chastity; others practice chastity in continence:

There are three forms of the virtue of chastity: the first is that of spouses, the second that of widows, and the third that of virgins. We do not praise any one of them to the exclusion of the others. . . . This is what makes for the richness of the discipline of the Church.137 2350 Those who are engaged to marry are called to live chastity in continence. They should see in this time of testing a discovery of mutual respect, an apprenticeship in fidelity, and the hope of receiving one another from God. They should reserve for marriage the expressions of affection that belong to married love. They will help each other grow in chastity.
Offenses against chastity
2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

 

[benedictaoo]

Look, you... see if you can follow this.

we do not see adulters waking into Mass- we see a man or a woman walking into Mass but a Butched out female, we see walking into Mass.

When we see that... or more like when YOU see that- you flip out inside and you know it.

You have said, you think, Paul said they are going to hell, for men being soft and/or I assume you also think that also applies to butch women.

How is that not discrimination?

But the men or woman walking into Mass can be so sick a sinner in private, and the big Butch may have taken a vow of celibacy.

Do u give a, visible to the eye, gay or lesbian the benefit of the doubt the way you give it to straight ppl who aren't hookers waiting on the street corner looking for a John?

and when you see a hooker working the corner, do u really see her in the same light as you do a gay? I seriously do not think you do.

I think the gay bothers you more. I really do.

can you honestly say you have not said gays need to go back to the closet?

we turn our heads and gawk when they are walking into a Church... Not the straight person...

ARE YOU GETTIN ME OR WHAT?

PPl who have SSA are dicreminted againt and all I have said- ALL I HAVE EVER SAID (since you like red so much) is that they exist- get over it and stop telling them they have to act straight, look straight, be a-sexual, to make us feel good or go to heaven.

They can be who they are and be chaste and celibate... NOT in sin or "one with an agenda" .

You look at them and see "gay sinner" and nothing else and THAT is what it is to be a bigot.

You have persecuted me, misconstured me and mis interpreted me and mis quoted me and out rigt told un truths about me...

the right thing for you to do would be to just apologize and stop thinking I have become anything other then what I have always been. Stop your judging.

Now lets see if you can do that.

Lets see if you even read this...

To be a person who is homosexual or a lesbian or bisexual... has a disoreder orintation... we KNOW, WA... we all KNOW . WE KNOW that sex was designed by God to be between married men and women exclusively and only.

WE KNOW! For the love of Pete, we KNOW...

but a person who is gay is not a disorederd person. he or she is a person. and them having a SSA is not a sin. They have to play by the same rules as us... and many do and many do not- just like us.

So just because they may keep the gayness- like Needing Grace tried to tell you, that does not mean they are bad people who are having depraved immoral sex.

I'm telling you, they can keep the gayness because that gayness or butchiness is not what makes them sinners.

dang- can you understand this!!??

 

[BabyChristian22]

but a person who is gay is not a disorederd person.

In a way, we are all disordered because of concupiscence. But God didn't create humans with our disorder to sin. God loves me just as I am, but He loves me too much to keep me that way.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Why do you assume to know what people are thinking?
.

And it goes on and on - see the last post.
Telling me what i think, what i do... OR that i actually even pay attention to anyone around me.

Which i do not.

I couldnt tell you who comes to Church. I am totally into Mass and oblivious to everything and everyone around me.

My Happy Place.


SO assumptions - we all know what they mean.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Bene maybe you wrote from personal experience and the guilt eats at you? So you are displacing your qualities and faults on me?

Perhaps all in all - what you say is really protesting too much.
Because these are your struggles.

IF i see someone who is a sinner and i KNOW they are sinning, i pray for them, not because i am better than them, because a sinner causes me to count my own sins...
and i pray for myself as well.

You wrote an essay on what you project i think and do - which is interesting since you obviously dont know me. Somehow i am guessing to know that maybe you do this sort of thinking but project a gay friendly sort of persona here.

Interesting.

 

[benedictaoo]

In a way, we are all disordered because of concupiscence. But God didn't create humans with our disorder to sin.

our nature that is fallen and our dignity as human beings created by God are not the same.

If you are going to actually try to argue that the feminine qualities of a gay and the masculine qualities of a lesbian is sinful- then you will have to show me something from the Church's official rule book that says so.

You know how many nuns are butch? how many priests are feminine?

 

[BabyChristian22]

our nature that is fallen and our dignity as human beings created by God are not the same.

If you are going to actually try to argue that the feminine qualities of a gay and the masculine qualities of a lesbian is sinful- then you will have to show me something from the Church's official rule book that says so.

You know how many nuns are butch? how many priests are feminine?

I didn't say that we don't have dignity as human beings. I don't know how you got that from what I said.

 

[benedictaoo]

Bene maybe you wrote from personal experience and the guilt eats at you? So you are displacing your qualities and faults on me?

Perhaps all in all - what you say is really protesting too much.
Because these are your struggles.

IF i see someone who is a sinner and i KNOW they are sinning, i pray for them, not because i am better than them, because a sinner causes me to count my own sins...
and i pray for myself as well.

You wrote an essay on what you project i think and do - which is interesting since you obviously dont know me. Somehow i am guessing to know that maybe you do this sort of thinking but project a gay friendly sort of persona here.

Interesting.

actually I am so that's how I know it when I clearly see it. I don't anymore. I have been convicted after hollering I wasn't- like you, when ppl would tell me I was.

Everything you post looks like discrimination and biggorty against a person who has a SSA- not against a person who is a sexual active gay. and if they are a sexual active gay person- you still shouldn't discriminate against them for being a sinner. we are all sinners.

I absolutely know a bigot when I see one- I'm from the south WA-I know it when I see it.

 

[WarriorAngel]

According to Sigmund Freud, projection is a psychological defense mechanism whereby one "projects" one's own undesirable thoughts, motivations, desires, and feelings onto someone else.
'Emotions or excitations which the ego tries to ward off are "split out" and then felt as being outside the ego...perceived in another person'.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection#cite_note-3 It is a common process.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection#cite_note-4The related defense of 'projective identification differs from projection in that the impulse projected onto an external object does not appear as something alien and distant from the ego because the connection of the self with that projected impulse continues'.


Putting the blame on me?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection#cite_note-5

 

[benedictaoo]

I didn't say that we don't have dignity as human beings. I don't know how you got that from what I said.

well why are you disagreeing with me then? I'm right. tell me what I said that was wrong?

SSA is disorder but a person who has one is no more worse off then the rest of us. he or she just has a heavier cross, which partly entails having to put up with bigots who think they need to hide in a closet and who can not offer them one ounce of understanding and compassion for them never getting to be with a companion of their very own.

 

[BabyChristian22]

well why are you disagreeing with me then? I'm right. tell me what I said that was wrong?

What part of what I said do you disagree with?

 

[WarriorAngel]

actually I am so that's how I know it when I clearly see it. I don't anymore. I have been convicted after hollering I wasn't- like you, when ppl would tell me I was.

Everything you post looks like discrimination and biggorty against a person who has a SSA- not against a person who is a sexual active gay. and if they are a sexual active gay person- you still shouldn't discriminate against them for being a sinner. we are all sinners.

I absolutely know a bigot when I see one- I'm from the south WA-I know it when I see it.

As i said - you dont know me so stop pretending you do.
Stop harassing me with projected ideas, thoughts, and whatever else you seemingly pretend to know.

I am from the North and we dont think like yins.

I said how i think - and there are plenty of gays up north.
CONSERVATISM up North does not equal prejudice, pomposity, or otherwise haughtiness.

David lives in the same state - i dont think you would dare accuse him of having your old thoughts.

I HAVE said umpteen hundreds of times the numerous friends i have had in my life who are gay... hailing from a large metro.
I probably know more than you ever could possibly conceive exists.

I am comfortable enough around them to discuss faith and truth with them...

STOP assessing my personality because you are wrong.

 

[WarriorAngel]

well why are you disagreeing with me then? I'm right. tell me what I said that was wrong?

SSA is disorder but a person who has one is no more worse off then the rest of us. he or she just has a heavier cross, which partly entails having to put up with bigots who think they need to hide in a closet and who can not offer them one ounce of understanding and compassion for them never getting to be with a companion of their very own.

Why dont you own up to admitting you are wrong and were wrong about not only me personally - but that the CHURCH also states the sinner [homosexuals] must put on Christ - and let go of the past of the temptations.

You wont.... you see apologies as weak i guess.

It takes greater courage to concede charitably than to keep wanting to knock people down with a one or two verse in the Catechism as tho it does not continue on how to work with the problem to remake a life.


O well, i wont hold my breath.
Just saying..

Have a fun filled day.