so what's with this notion part ll

[benedictaoo]

According to Sigmund Freud, projection is a psychological defense mechanism whereby one "projects" one's own undesirable thoughts, motivations, desires, and feelings onto someone else.
'Emotions or excitations which the ego tries to ward off are "split out" and then felt as being outside the ego...perceived in another person'.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection#cite_note-3 It is a common process.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection#cite_note-4The related defense of 'projective identification differs from projection in that the impulse projected onto an external object does not appear as something alien and distant from the ego because the connection of the self with that projected impulse continues'.


Putting the blame on me?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection#cite_note-5

I'm an open book- if that was the case- id just say it and I think I did, honey but you don't really read- do you? I admit when I don't and tell you when I don't, I'm honest-I do not lie, I try to not lie to myself.

I was that way- with everyone, the libs, the gays, the Mexicans crossing the boarder, the blacks, the Muslims, the poor, those on the welfare, etc and I am more open minded, not 100% but I'm better.

that's a good thing WA.

They way you speak about Obama... (using him just as an example) I use to. Now, that does not mean i like him as our president but I do not demonize anymore and I totally did that and called myself a good Christian at the end of the day.

what a hypocrite was I and this is the person you miss and respected?

am I getting through to you, WA?

because at the end of the day, he's a human being- not really the devil, and God loves him too, not any of his sins, but he does love him.

I totally believe you have so much contempt in your heart- you could not bring yourself to find any good thing or to say anything nice about him or that God loves him.

My grand ma use to say, everybody got some good in them... try to find the good in him- but that is scandalous to your ears, huh? I know, I been there.

NOW! for you A - Z jumpers... no, this does not mean I'm voting for Obama or have any secret agenda to get y'all to not vote for Repubs so he will win... that is not how I opertae. If I was for him- I'd tell you. But I'm not.

Like, what do y'all want? You do not have to guess about me, I tell you.

 

[benedictaoo]

Why dont you own up to admitting you are wrong and were wrong about not only me personally - but that the CHURCH also states the sinner [homosexuals] must put on Christ - and let go of the past of the temptations.

You wont.... you see apologies as weak i guess.

It takes greater courage to concede charitably than to keep wanting to knock people down with a one or two verse in the Catechism as tho it does not continue on how to work with the problem to remake a life.


O well, i wont hold my breath.
Just saying..

Have a fun filled day.

Umm WA, I never said ever they shouldn't.

We have to put on Christ- but putting on Christ is not a Lesbian putting on a dress. She can keep her wranglers on.

NOW. yeah, I agree ones who literally look and dress like a man is an issue but the butches who keep the hair short and just feel uncomfortable with femininity- no, they do not have to change that or be guilty of not "putting on Christ".

 

[WarriorAngel]

I totally believe you have so much contempt in your heart- you could not bring yourself to find any good or to say anything nice about him or that God loves him.

My grand ma use to say, everybody got some good in them... try to find the good in him- but that is scandalous to your ears, huh? I know, I been there.

IS this about Obama?

I rather not think about what i feel for him - rather stay on how horrid his issues are.
For the person - i do pray. For his issues, he needs removed from office.

So you can say what you want - you and i are as different as night and day.

I have all along felt compassion for the sinner - but have always said we separate the sinner from the sin. And the sin - that's important to understand - it is important to understand it breaks friendship from God.
I AM OF COURSE and have always differentiated the act from the person. YOU can go back and see what i have always said.

I like the oft used motto - love the sinner but hate the sin.

IF you feel guilt for YOUR perceptions, anger and vitriolic speech - thats up to you.
I on the other hand havent changed - remain faithful to what i have always said without hating.


You perceive me as yourself, is that where the anger comes from?

I appreciated the stand you had against sin....
Whether or not you found guilt for going beyond the sin into the feelings you had for the sinner is your struggle.
Dont project it on me.

 

[benedictaoo]

What part of what I said do you disagree with?

the part where you tried to make some point that we are all disordered.. for why would you feel it necessary to point that out in relation to me saying the fall did not take away our dignity. I did not say anything incorrect, so why did you feel the need to even respond?

If you were actually agreeing with me, then okay. I'm so used to you disagreeing with me, I naturally assumed that is what you were doing.

 

[benedictaoo]

IS this about Obama?

I rather not think about what i feel for him - rather stay on how horrid his issues are.
For the person - i do pray. For his issues, he needs removed from office.

So you can say what you want - you and i are as different as night and day.

I have all along felt compassion for the sinner - but have always said we separate the sinner from the sin. And the sin - that's important to understand - it is important to understand it breaks friendship from God.
I AM OF COURSE and have always differentiated the act from the person. YOU can go back and see what i have always said.

I like the oft used motto - love the sinner but hate the sin.

IF you feel guilt for YOUR perceptions, anger and vitriolic speech - thats up to you.
I on the other hand havent changed - remain faithful to what i have always said without hating.


You perceive me as yourself, is that where the anger comes from?

I appreciated the stand you had against sin....
Whether or not you found guilt for going beyond the sin into the feelings you had for the sinner is your struggle.
Dont project it on me.

Im angry that you are not really being honest with me and with yourself. and that you try to make me mad on purpose. I'm mad that you don't own nothing.

and , you are not reflecting love and nice and a lot of folks agree.

If this is how you really are, you should reflect on how you can relfelct this.


and no, it not about Obama- didn't I say, I was using him for an example, you know, to illustrate a point? I swore I did... anyway, no its not about him- its about how we treat and speak about and view others we perceive as evil.

Like the libs, like the poor, like those on the welfare, like the mexicans crossing the boarder.

We have a bias and yes- we need to put on the mind of Christ and not have these prejudice thoughts.

YOU DO speak really rough about those on welfare and it really does sound like discrimination. Another example.

 

[FranciscanSpirit]

. And I have not heard of any heterosexual married people clamoring to make sodomy a natural accepted practice. .

Really? You should hang around the Catholic Answers forum more often, it comes up regularly, straight Catholics wanting too know how to practice it licitly in their marriage.

 

[benedictaoo]

lol... yep.

 

[FranciscanSpirit]

The reason that we aren't under as great an attack by heterosexual sinners is because we ignore them. We don't object to the government recognizing such shams as marriages after divorce without annulment, marriages of convenience, marriages which are not open to life, etc. If we actively tried to keep the government from recorganizing their marriages, they would take the track of being hostile to us too, rather than their current path of merely pointing and laughing. We don't campaign to keep hospitals from performing sterilizations, we don't campaign to keep our government from providing contraceptives to its servicemen and women, we just oppose the gays who want to marry. I suspect they'd have a greater respect for us if we were a little more consistent.

Exactly.

 

[FranciscanSpirit]

Well it is a little easier for straight couples to hide their sins than openly gay people.

I think the point is that no one is calling for laws to control heterosexual behavior in terms of marriage that the Church considers sinful. Like sinful "marriage" after divorce which is really fornicating and cohabitation. Or so we believe. And they don't really hide it.

 

[FranciscanSpirit]

He said: GOD WANTS MERCY, NOT SACRIFICE.

'Pick up your cross...follow Me.' IS a sacrifice.
No Catholic teaching says otherwise or that we do not have sacrifices.

What do you think Jesus meant when He said God wants mercy not sacrifice?

 

[benedictaoo]

As i said - you dont know me so stop pretending you do.
Stop harassing me with projected ideas, thoughts, and whatever else you seemingly pretend to know.

I am from the North and we dont think like yins.

I said how i think - and there are plenty of gays up north.
CONSERVATISM up North does not equal prejudice, pomposity, or otherwise haughtiness.

David lives in the same state - i dont think you would dare accuse him of having your old thoughts.

I HAVE said umpteen hundreds of times the numerous friends i have had in my life who are gay... hailing from a large metro.
I probably know more than you ever could possibly conceive exists.

I am comfortable enough around them to discuss faith and truth with them...

STOP assessing my personality because you are wrong.

Then what you do in your real life is completely different from what you display here.

I don't care how many gays and lesbians you know... I know a lot just from being a hair dresser for 25 years and living in NO.

I know how I was with them in person and how I ranted against them on here and one day I realized, what a idiot I was, I'm friends with them! How could I talk about them in the way I was? I'm not against these people, I never was.

 

[BabyChristian22]

In a way, we are all disordered because of concupiscence. But God didn't create humans with our disorder to sin. God loves me just as I am, but He loves me too much to keep me that way.

What part of what I said do you disagree with?

the part where you tried to make some point that we are all disordered.. for why would you feel it necessary to point that out in relation to me saying the fall did not take away our dignity. I did not say anything incorrect, so why did you feel the need to even respond?

If you were actually agreeing with me, then okay. I'm so used to you disagreeing with me, I naturally assumed that is what you were doing.

I was only trying to say that we are all sinners in need of God's mercy, grace, and forgiveness and that we all have a type of disorder called concupiscence. Even Saint Paul said that he struggled with it.

 

[benedictaoo]

I was only trying to say that we are all sinners in need of God's mercy, grace, and forgiveness and that we all have a type of disorder called concupiscence. Even Saint Paul said that he struggled with it.

Right, so give it to the gays as well. They need it too. more then us but they do not need to deny that they are homosexual.

I really think this break down in communication is that you read me saying they are homosexual and they should not have to deny this- I think you think I'm meaning, they get to marry and have sex.

No, but why do you think they have to hide their gayness or butchiness from the world? They are here to stay, they have exist since day one, they aren't going anywhere, deal with it. Deal with the fact that homosexual ppl are born every day and they are REAL. I'm not saying deal with their sins and like it.

WA thinks they should try to deny and tell themselves they really aren't attracted to the same sex and they should desexualize... why can't they just be like, I like dudes or I like chicks but that is where it ends because I can't have what the straight people have because God did not make sex and relationships to be for two people of the same sex ... hey can, if they want, try to marry a person of the opposite sex if they want kids and not to be alone and still go to Church... but they are never going to 'love' the person or desire the person in the way we do... and I think that's sad. I really do.

Now does this make me really embrace sin? Or doe it make me just a compassionate nice person?

 

[BabyChristian22]

They need it too. more then us but they do not need to deny that they are homosexual.

I never said that someone has to deny the fact that they struggle with same sex attraction.

No, but why do you think they have to hide their gayness or butchiness from the world?

I don't think they have to hide it. I only think they shouldn't be trying to force the Church to say that it's a natural attraction or trying to change the definition of marriage. Eve was created as Adam's spouse, and Jesus reaffirmed that the model for marriage is Adam and Eve and that this marriage is like the marriage between Jesus and his bride, the Church. The government has no business trying to redefine God's sacrament. It's like men are shaking their fist at God, protesting what He has established.

they have exist since day one

That's not true. If that were true then Adam and Eve would not have procreated, and we would not exist today. It's possible to go too far in trying to defend homosexuality, and I think with that statement you have crossed the line.

 

[benedictaoo]

I never said that someone has to deny the fact that they struggle with same sex attraction.

well WA has and said they need to desexualize or try to become straight over time.

she is not satisfied with them just being a gay or lesbian who is celibate. They are not being asked by her to resist the temptation to act on a SSA- but to deny it! deny they have one.

She says they can not remain gay, they must either become straight or desexualize.

My question is this; why can't they remain gay and just resist sin?

I don't think they have to hide it. I only think they shouldn't be trying to force the Church to say that it's a natural attraction or trying to change the definition of marriage. Eve was created as Adam's spouse, and Jesus reaffirmed that the model for marriage is Adam and Eve and that this marriage is like the marriage between Jesus and his bride, the Church. The government has no business trying to redefine God's sacrament. It's like men are shaking their fist at God, protesting what He has established.

I agree but its WA who keep saying stuff like they can't have the SSA, they must get rid of it because to do so is "putting on Christ..." They have to get rid of it if they want to be holy or a Saint.

That's not true. If that were true then Adam and Eve would not have procreated, and we would not exist today. It's possible to go too far in trying to defend homosexuality, and I think with that statement you have crossed the line.

well maybe not "day one" but they have existed since Moses... U do know that "day one" is just an expression, right? I didn't really mean literally since day one, the day God created the world.

and what are you talking about? defending homosexuality? where have I done that? No, really Baby, where have I done that?

I defend the people who are homosexual from bigots who think they have stop being one or desexualize. being a homosexual does not mean you are one who is having sex. It just means you like ppl of the same sex.

Y'all who like to quote the CCC, y'all need to pay attention to what it actually says, the ACTS are grave... not the attractions, while it is not propely orderd... its not a garve "act" or sin... so they can be gay and not pretend they aren't. They just can not act on it and no, they should not tell us that we have to accept that a marriage between them is okay... its not.

 

[BabyChristian22]

well WA has and said they need to desexualize or try to become straight over time.

I can't speak for WA. I can only speak for myself. I notice that you didn't quote what she allegedly said. Since you have accused me of being a bigot when I know I'm not you are probably misrepresenting WA as well. I think you wouldn't see us even talking about homosexuality if people weren't using it to try to change the sacrament of marriage and then trying to force us to accept that change. As a Catholic, I don't appreciate anyone trying to mess with God's sacraments.

My question is this; why can't they remain gay and just resist sin?

Why do you want them all to remain that way? What about the ones who can and do change? Do you have a problem with them? My belief is they don't sin by struggling with SSA, but I don't say they should give up the struggle and just stay that way when it is a disordered attraction. With God all things are possible, but without God nothing is possible. I know I have to continue to struggle against my tendencies to sin, so why should they be any different? In Heaven there won't be any sexual temptation nor any tendency to sin, so there is a positive end if we keep up the struggle against temptations to sin here in this world.

well maybe not "day one" but they have existed since Moses

No one has denied that homosexuality has existed in ancient times. Most people are familiar with the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in the book of Genesis.

I defend the people who are homosexual from bigots who think they have stop being one or desexualize.

Just because someone doesn't see things exactly the way you do doesn't make them a bigot. The people you keep accusing of being bigots have told you numerous times that they don't hate the sinner but only the sin. Why can't you just accept that? It reminds me of how some Protestants will keep accusing us of worshiping the Blessed Virgin Mary in place of God no matter how many times we tell them that we don't. Also, none of the ones who you call a self-righteous bigot has ever denied being a sinner. A self-righteous person is one who denies that they sin. This is ironic since the ones who actually deny that they sin are the gay activists who you defend.

Y'all who like to quote the CCC, y'all need to pay attention to what it actually says, the ACTS are grave... not the attractions

I haven't seen anyone in OBOB say that the attraction by itself is a mortal sin. Quoting from the CCC is better than shooting from the hip and being wrong. I and others have had posts that contained no more and no less than a direct quote from the CCC, and you still had a problem with the post. If you don't have a problem with the CCC you wouldn't have a problem with people quoting from it. But apparently you don't like it when people quote from the CCC which is odd for someone who says they believe in it. If someone quotes from the CCC they probably know what the quote says.

 

[FranciscanSpirit]

I never said that someone has to deny the fact that they struggle with same sex attraction. .

I believe the point is that Catholic gay people are not struggling with "same sex attraction," they are struggling with temptations away from chastity and at the same time the idea they are NEVER supposed to have the same kind of intimate family relationships that straight people take for granted.

 

[FranciscanSpirit]

I can't speak for WA. I can only speak for myself. I notice that you didn't quote what she allegedly said. .

That is what she said. You probably could have read them in the time it took you to write this last treatise. Unless she went back and edited her posts.

I noticed that here. I found I could edit a post I made like, two months ago. No wonder y'all quote entire posts all the time.

Anyway, that's what she said. They should be AS IT IS IN HEAVEN with NO GENDER IDENTIFICATION.

 

[WarriorAngel]

What do you think Jesus meant when He said God wants mercy not sacrifice?

Matthew 9
[6] But that you may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then said he to the man sick of palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go into thy house. [7] And he arose, and went into his house. [8] And the multitude seeing it, feared, and glorified God that gave such power to men. [9] And when Jesus passed on from hence, he saw a man sitting in the custom house, named Matthew; and he saith to him: Follow me. And he rose up and followed him. [10] And it came to pass as he was sitting at meat in the house, behold many publicans and sinners came, and sat down with Jesus and his disciples.
[11] And the Pharisees seeing it, said to his disciples: Why doth your master eat with publicans and sinners? [12] But Jesus hearing it, said: They that are in health need not a physician, but they that are ill. [13] Go then and learn what this meaneth, I will have mercy and not sacrifice. For I am not come to call the just, but sinners. [14] Then came to him the disciples of John, saying: Why do we and the Pharisees fast often, but thy disciples do not fast? [15] And Jesus said to them: Can the children of the bridegroom mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then they shall fast.


He came to call sinners - not kill them off.

Go and sin no more

 

[WarriorAngel]

That is what she said. You probably could have read them in the time it took you to write this last treatise. Unless she went back and edited her posts.

I noticed that here. I found I could edit a post I made like, two months ago. No wonder y'all quote entire posts all the time.

Anyway, that's what she said. They should be AS IT IS IN HEAVEN with NO GENDER IDENTIFICATION.

In Heaven we do not marry and we are not sexual beings,.
Period.

SO if gays want to do the Lord's will, they will be non sexual - rather that than go to gehenna.


Marriage is a sacrament on the other hand - and are to produce more souls for Heaven.

Those are the choices.
Chastity or fruitfulness.

Ask if you do not comprehend.