So I'm at Costco almost done shopping, walking down the last two aisles, and who

[Kristos]

Gurney - I can partially relate to you here. It might take years to get over this. It will take some serious humility on your part to forgive them - and I will pray for you, because it's not easy.

 

[Anhelyna]

Kristos - you are probably more correct than you realise.

I'm still not over something that was said to me in 2006 it was said to me by someone who thought he knew what he was talking about - and he didn't - and believe me it STILL hurts

 

[xenia]

It is factually incorrect that no one here saw that or spoke up. Several did. But I agree that not enough did.

You're right, forgive me for over-generalizing.

 

[ArmyMatt]

got that too, everyone has those aches and pains that are hard to forgive and let go of, even though we know we must.

 

[Jesus4Madrid]

"You cannot control others, but you can control your own reactions to them, and cease to be a pawn of your own passions. This does not mean looking the other way in the face of injustice, it means refusing to allow it to steal your peace. “Acquire the Holy Spirit, and thousands around you will be saved,” said St. Seraphim of Sarov. By conquering your rebel heart, and delivering yourself from wrath, the world you save might be your own." How Dante Can Save Your Life, by Rod Dreher

 

[gzt]

I'm sure it's possible to find that sentiment without looking to Rod Dreher.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Like a fool I decided to pass by TAW today and look in....good to know the dogpile on me continues after I haven't posted in here in quite a while. You guys think what you want, but you're not sitting where I am and you haven't walked in my shoes. Blame the victim. That's fine. I'm not surprised with Xenia. I am with Greg. I really am with jckstraw, who I thought understood me and my situation. I have been through the mill. It impacted me, my kids, my wife, and my friends who aren't even Orthodox. I have received phone calls and Facebook friend requests and FB messages from parishioners at my old parish who are praying for me, are DISGUSTED at the way I was treated by the pharisees in charge there, and they're begging me to come back. One parishioner whom I consider a true friend there has been telling me that he feels our deacon has poisoned our priest's mind. He begs me to come back and witness to my priest.

In some ways I know I'm in the wrong in that I never gave my priest a chance to talk to me on the phone as he wished, the opportunity to apologize face to face (sort of, phone and all). But I was too raw at the time. Too hurt. So in retrospect I suppose I should've done that. In that I was wrong.

I guess that weekend it would've satisfied some posters if I would've ignored my head-to-toe sunburn, my not sleeping all night from the pain, my kids' exhaustion and sunburns, my wife's exhaustion, and we'd have all driven up to Fresno with me half sleeping at the wheel, and wouldn't have missed that Divine Liturgy. Then the deacon and priest would "approve" of me. Some posters would see me as a "good" Orthodox Christian. Some would also approve of me if I would've "taken it like a man" and allowed my priest to talk trash, my deacon to excoriate and rip me to shreds with a "gee thanks!" response on my part. I suppose we are indeed called to never miss a liturgy even if we're exhausted and feel sick, even if our kids have strep, even if we didn't sleep all night before and we're driving kids to church, even if, even if......no quarter. With some people the clergy are ALWAYS right and the parishioner is always a whiner.

I'm sorry for upsetting so many people as I evidently have done in here. We like to think all is roses and gum drops. Our parishes are all perfect and priests are all warm and cuddly, almost super human. We like to think nobody should ever miss a liturgy, and the world is made of rainbows and honey. Sorry I shattered that for a few. I'm sorry I shared my feelings here. Stupid indeed. If people felt I crossed a line, a nice IM to me, a veteran poster here, would've made a difference and we could've discussed it. Xenia and Greg know me by now and if they had more love for me, they'd have acted as friends and IM'd me a gentle warning at least. But instead, I got threatened with law suit language and scare tactics. I got a "despicable" thrown at me. Honestly, Xenia, that slur really stung me HARD. I thought about it all day long after you said it. It really hurt me. I'm already beaten up by clergy. I didn't need one last drop of spittle on me and a final upper cut to the jaw. I felt you didn't care at all about me, the victim, and totally pitied the gossiper and the man aiding in his sin. I still feel that way. Perhaps you're right that I shouldn't have shared this and I got, in your opinion, too specific. Well, as I said, it's a small world and a moron with two braincells with a little pre school math could figure out just about ever single Orthodox priest in this country. Orthodoxy is a VERY small world. But I do accept your apology for the word, at least. I'm glad you didn't mean it.

I'm disappointed to read today the piling on yet more "we all should've chastised Gurney for his horrible behavior" posting. Boy, to read that last ten posts, you'd think I'm the worst guy in the world.

Who'd have thought a poster who caught his priest and deacon slamming him behind his back with the priest openly admitting (WITH TEXT LAUGHTER AND AN ADMISSION OF HYPOCRISY WITH JOKING INCLUDED!) that he was going to deny his parishioner (me) a sacrament and judging me with "he'll never change anyway" cynicism, who'd have ever thought that poster would now be the bad guy simply because he has vented, said his concerns about clergy, and has an open wound that isn't healing as fast as he'd like...? Who'd have thought? It kind of reminds me of my place of employment. There is a bully on the playground and he pummels a kid. Somehow with administration, by the time all is said and done, the kid who got beat to a pulp is the bad guy and the bully is in the staff room with the principal getting a soda and cookie. I guess that's the way of the world.

My approach, if I were outside this crud, a regular happy Orthodox Christian looking on at TAW would be, "gee, this poor guy is raw right now. Hard to believe how upset and angry he is from what they did to him. Hope he's ok. Let him vent. If it gets out of hand, I'll IM him." That always works better than "despicable" and "law suit!"

What some fail to understand is this is ROUND TWO at this parish with me. Round two. I have already been verbally assaulted by clergy. I stayed away for a couple months, prayed hard, forgave, AND RETURNED. But few remember much less care about that. It took all I had to dig deep and walk back to that parish! I had to dig SOOOOO deep! I forgave both men. I dusted myself off, got up, walked again. And I was NOT in the wrong! I let that go. I was restoring my good will, building up love, nurturing letting the disappointment go. My wife and I were in the BEST place spiritually we've been in so long! Kylissa, Matt, and a few other kind souls here might remember I was going through a spiritual funk, but I came out of it! I didn't come out of it thanks to a few previously mentioned posters. Oddly enough, the same posters who don't believe in me now didn't back then! But Kylissa, Matt, and a few other kind souls like Rusmeister, All4Christ, Seashale, and a host of others encouraged me. They listened, and "put up" with me I guess. I kept praying. I didn't lose heart. We went to church for a good 5-6 weeks in a row. I started reading, felt the Holy Spirit, certain sins I deal with were in the rear view mirror and confession was less of a regular necessity, and I was on fire!

Then the bottom fell out from under me.....

So, before you jump on me some more and dogpile the boy, keep in mind what I've gone through. A lot of highs and lows, but coming off a HUGE low and then a super sweet high...that high was KILLED by clergy. And I have scars.

I committed a sin today. My curiosity got the better of me. I thought I'd pop into TAW and see how everyone was doing. Then I saw my old thread. Disappointed to see I'm still the topic of conversation even in absentia.

Xenia, if you feel my soul "corroded" as you say, pray for me rather than playing the nemesis foil to my posts. IM me with some gentleness and love, and keep me in your daily prayers. Same with Jesus4 and Greg. Pray for me, the villain. And don't just pray I go hobbling back to my old parish on my knees, pray for healing.

ArmyMatt, typical to his kind soul and evident closeness to Christ, has been nothing but encouraging to me. I can't count the short IM's that were just uplifting and how he has believed in me all the way. If only he had company....

Thank you to those who have prayed for me, the corroded one. Love to all. I'm going to ask that this thread be closed. I don't need to be ganged-up on, I need prayer.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Thanks to Anhelyna and Kristos. Thanks much.

Gurney - I can partially relate to you here. It might take years to get over this. It will take some serious humility on your part to forgive them - and I will pray for you, because it's not easy.

 

[Anhelyna]

Gurney - despite all the harsh words to you at times - be assured , for what that's worth , that you and your family are all in our prayers.

It is at times like this , that we need support. A little gentle telling off at times , even now, is needed. But what we all need is prayer , lots of prayer , never ending prayer.

These times do pass - eventually. We all ask the question "Why ? " which we shouldn't do. But we pick ourselves up and struggle on , knowing that this is what we are called to do.

 

[jckstraw72]

Gurney, forgive me for any offense I caused.

 

[ContraMundum]

Absolutely I was a good example, sister! The sad, sad thing is, I wanted to talk to him. I wanted to ask him how he's doing, I wanted to reconcile, I wanted NOT to have this situation. I smiled, said "hey there, hi you guys" and kept walking. My instinct was just to keep walking.

I just can't go back to that parish. I can't let a priest and deacon own me like that, get that far into my head, talk down to me, and there be zero accountability between clergy. I can't take wondering if he's trashing me behind my back and speculating if he's gossiping about my confessions to others. I can't take their dynamic. it's cultish.

My heart is still RAW over the whole thing. I find every single solitary day I hurt over this stuff. I miss that parish SO MUCH. I loved the liturgy, building, people, bishop, coffee hours, wonderful long conversations with friends I made there, the intellectual stimulation, and the deep reverence in worship. I miss it profoundly. I ache over this. Frankly I haven't felt this much pain since about 17 years ago when I got fired for the first time in my life blindsided by a cruel, mind-bending boss. She was out to ruin and break me, and she almost did. That was the last time I was this messed up. But what makes this worse is that I loved these two men like Christian brothers to a high degree and valued their friendship and office.

I'm still raw. I wish the open wound would just seal already. Ugh.

I am not kidding when I say that though, that I wanted to talk to them both. I hate feuds, I hate silence, I hate grudges and brooding and bad feelings. I hate it so much!

Lord, I wish this hadn't befallen me.....

Been in a similar situation. Took over a decade to heal...still painful...but I moved and and showed victory with learning how to live again. Now my life is better and more fruitful than those in the Church who spiritually hurt me.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

No worries, Jesse. I always consider you a good friend on here.

Gurney, forgive me for any offense I caused.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I don't recall you ever "gently telling me off," and if you did, I'm glad I missed reading those posts! LOL. Thanks, Anhelyna!

Gurney - despite all the harsh words to you at times - be assured , for what that's worth , that you and your family are all in our prayers.

It is at times like this , that we need support. A little gentle telling off at times , even now, is needed. But what we all need is prayer , lots of prayer , never ending prayer.

These times do pass - eventually. We all ask the question "Why ? " which we shouldn't do. But we pick ourselves up and struggle on , knowing that this is what we are called to do.

 

[ArmyMatt]

it goes without saying, but you are in my prayers as well.

and I appreciate the sentiment, but we Orthodox are family, with all the positive and negative that implies.

hang in there man

 

[Anhelyna]

and we TAW folk are family and we support each other in times of trouble as do all families

 

[ArmyMatt]

indeed, I think if you scroll back you will find everyone on here at some point (or most folks) were low where you are now man. many encouragements, many attempts at encouragement that were misread, etc.

 

[Jesus4Madrid]

Like a fool I decided to pass by TAW today and look in....good to know the dogpile on me continues after I haven't posted in here in quite a while. You guys think what you want, but you're not sitting where I am and you haven't walked in my shoes. Blame the victim. That's fine. I'm not surprised with Xenia. I am with Greg. I really am with jckstraw, who I thought understood me and my situation. I have been through the mill. It impacted me, my kids, my wife, and my friends who aren't even Orthodox. I have received phone calls and Facebook friend requests and FB messages from parishioners at my old parish who are praying for me, are DISGUSTED at the way I was treated by the pharisees in charge there, and they're begging me to come back. One parishioner whom I consider a true friend there has been telling me that he feels our deacon has poisoned our priest's mind. He begs me to come back and witness to my priest.

In some ways I know I'm in the wrong in that I never gave my priest a chance to talk to me on the phone as he wished, the opportunity to apologize face to face (sort of, phone and all). But I was too raw at the time. Too hurt. So in retrospect I suppose I should've done that. In that I was wrong.

I guess that weekend it would've satisfied some posters if I would've ignored my head-to-toe sunburn, my not sleeping all night from the pain, my kids' exhaustion and sunburns, my wife's exhaustion, and we'd have all driven up to Fresno with me half sleeping at the wheel, and wouldn't have missed that Divine Liturgy. Then the deacon and priest would "approve" of me. Some posters would see me as a "good" Orthodox Christian. Some would also approve of me if I would've "taken it like a man" and allowed my priest to talk trash, my deacon to excoriate and rip me to shreds with a "gee thanks!" response on my part. I suppose we are indeed called to never miss a liturgy even if we're exhausted and feel sick, even if our kids have strep, even if we didn't sleep all night before and we're driving kids to church, even if, even if......no quarter. With some people the clergy are ALWAYS right and the parishioner is always a whiner.

I'm sorry for upsetting so many people as I evidently have done in here. We like to think all is roses and gum drops. Our parishes are all perfect and priests are all warm and cuddly, almost super human. We like to think nobody should ever miss a liturgy, and the world is made of rainbows and honey. Sorry I shattered that for a few. I'm sorry I shared my feelings here. Stupid indeed. If people felt I crossed a line, a nice IM to me, a veteran poster here, would've made a difference and we could've discussed it. Xenia and Greg know me by now and if they had more love for me, they'd have acted as friends and IM'd me a gentle warning at least. But instead, I got threatened with law suit language and scare tactics. I got a "despicable" thrown at me. Honestly, Xenia, that slur really stung me HARD. I thought about it all day long after you said it. It really hurt me. I'm already beaten up by clergy. I didn't need one last drop of spittle on me and a final upper cut to the jaw. I felt you didn't care at all about me, the victim, and totally pitied the gossiper and the man aiding in his sin. I still feel that way. Perhaps you're right that I shouldn't have shared this and I got, in your opinion, too specific. Well, as I said, it's a small world and a moron with two braincells with a little pre school math could figure out just about ever single Orthodox priest in this country. Orthodoxy is a VERY small world. But I do accept your apology for the word, at least. I'm glad you didn't mean it.

I'm disappointed to read today the piling on yet more "we all should've chastised Gurney for his horrible behavior" posting. Boy, to read that last ten posts, you'd think I'm the worst guy in the world.

Who'd have thought a poster who caught his priest and deacon slamming him behind his back with the priest openly admitting (WITH TEXT LAUGHTER AND AN ADMISSION OF HYPOCRISY WITH JOKING INCLUDED!) that he was going to deny his parishioner (me) a sacrament and judging me with "he'll never change anyway" cynicism, who'd have ever thought that poster would now be the bad guy simply because he has vented, said his concerns about clergy, and has an open wound that isn't healing as fast as he'd like...? Who'd have thought? It kind of reminds me of my place of employment. There is a bully on the playground and he pummels a kid. Somehow with administration, by the time all is said and done, the kid who got beat to a pulp is the bad guy and the bully is in the staff room with the principal getting a soda and cookie. I guess that's the way of the world.

My approach, if I were outside this crud, a regular happy Orthodox Christian looking on at TAW would be, "gee, this poor guy is raw right now. Hard to believe how upset and angry he is from what they did to him. Hope he's ok. Let him vent. If it gets out of hand, I'll IM him." That always works better than "despicable" and "law suit!"

What some fail to understand is this is ROUND TWO at this parish with me. Round two. I have already been verbally assaulted by clergy. I stayed away for a couple months, prayed hard, forgave, AND RETURNED. But few remember much less care about that. It took all I had to dig deep and walk back to that parish! I had to dig SOOOOO deep! I forgave both men. I dusted myself off, got up, walked again. And I was NOT in the wrong! I let that go. I was restoring my good will, building up love, nurturing letting the disappointment go. My wife and I were in the BEST place spiritually we've been in so long! Kylissa, Matt, and a few other kind souls here might remember I was going through a spiritual funk, but I came out of it! I didn't come out of it thanks to a few previously mentioned posters. Oddly enough, the same posters who don't believe in me now didn't back then! But Kylissa, Matt, and a few other kind souls like Rusmeister, All4Christ, Seashale, and a host of others encouraged me. They listened, and "put up" with me I guess. I kept praying. I didn't lose heart. We went to church for a good 5-6 weeks in a row. I started reading, felt the Holy Spirit, certain sins I deal with were in the rear view mirror and confession was less of a regular necessity, and I was on fire!

Then the bottom fell out from under me.....

So, before you jump on me some more and dogpile the boy, keep in mind what I've gone through. A lot of highs and lows, but coming off a HUGE low and then a super sweet high...that high was KILLED by clergy. And I have scars.

I committed a sin today. My curiosity got the better of me. I thought I'd pop into TAW and see how everyone was doing. Then I saw my old thread. Disappointed to see I'm still the topic of conversation even in absentia.

Xenia, if you feel my soul "corroded" as you say, pray for me rather than playing the nemesis foil to my posts. IM me with some gentleness and love, and keep me in your daily prayers. Same with Jesus4 and Greg. Pray for me, the villain. And don't just pray I go hobbling back to my old parish on my knees, pray for healing.

ArmyMatt, typical to his kind soul and evident closeness to Christ, has been nothing but encouraging to me. I can't count the short IM's that were just uplifting and how he has believed in me all the way. If only he had company....

Thank you to those who have prayed for me, the corroded one. Love to all. I'm going to ask that this thread be closed. I don't need to be ganged-up on, I need prayer.

Gurney,

I stand by what I wrote, which I hope was balanced and certainly not meant to cause offence. I am condemned first and foremost as the worst of sinners and I hope I made that evident.

Still praying for your healing (and mine).

 

[~Anastasia~]

Just wanted to say that you and your family are in my prayers. I know I messaged you and told you about that little scenario I had to deal with. Mine upset me, showed the person in question didn't care for our welfare, and I got "blamed" for it in fairly minor ways, but there was none of the really ugly things that you are having to deal with. Still it hurt, and really soured me on church leadership and that particular church. I knew I needed to forgive and get my own self straight, no matter what the outcome for the other party was. And I did, but it was a HUGE struggle and really took well over a year to really get almost 100% worked out. I say almost because it still comes to mind and I still fight temptation from time to time to be upset. It is a great spiritual work to struggle with these things - it was for me at least.

I pray that you'll work on it, and you have my prayers that God will help you. In fact I know that He will help if you set yourself to work on it. But it certainly took time for me, and I suspect that you will need time too. It must be done though. We must forgive, because otherwise it becomes a cancer that distorts how we experience everything related, not to mention we are commanded to do so. But I know that you know all this.

I just wanted to let you know that you and your family are in my prayers.

 

[George95]

MOD HAT ON

Closed at OP Request.

MOD HAT OFF​