So I'm at Costco almost done shopping, walking down the last two aisles, and who

[GregConstantine]

California libel/defamation laws:

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/california-defamation-law

Be very careful, according to this, this deacon can come after you even if your accusation does not cause him any overt harm.

 

[Tigger45]

The good thing about this gurney is I think the Lord uses these 'timely' encounters as part of the healing process. It forces you/us to deal with the emotions kinda like a pressure valve release. Maybe next time it might be easier and over time the healing will come. It will also probably make you wiser and stronger in the end.

 

[E.C.]

I feel you gurney. The last time I was in a Catholic church was for the funeral of my friend's sister. I hadn't seen most of that community in about eight years, so you can only imagine the looks of some faces when word spread that I left Catholicism for Orthodoxy.
The priest didn't care; he was just happy I didn't go Protestant!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I'm disappointed in you, Greg. I'm not only disappointed that you don't think to ask me more about it before leaping with the outrage and that you assume the other posters on here are dullard morons who can't read things carefully and thoughtfully. My observation is that TAW posters are just about the smartest and most analytical posters I've met. You and I are seeing two different forums.

Secondly, I don't work at his school. I work in his district. I have spoken to him about it, and I've heard many of the teachers there talk about it as well as read what has been in the newspapers. So stop acting like his defense attorney. you don't live here, work here, or know the situation. You're just out to be the spoiler and devil's advocate. You're better than that.

It is well-documented that the principal that oversaw that school before him was warned that the custodian was taking young girls and boys into his room in the back of the school one at a time and the kids weren't coming out for a long period of time. Then many of them were super quiet and awkward and a few said the custodian touched them. That principal was promoted to the district level downtown. Then the deacon stepped into the situation. He was warned by a group of teachers that got together outraged at this custodian. According to the staff, he did nothing. According to him, he wasn't told. The situation escalated and now more kids were taken into his little lair and were molested. Finally two of the little victims came forward. The police investigated. They discovered 10 more kids! It was a total mess. Deacon did nothing to stop it. Now if that bothers you, I'm very sorry, GC. If it makes you uncomfortable that I'm not ok with the situation, I'm sorry you feel that way. Deacon was going around at church telling people that the "Armenians are out to get him" because the attorney leading the civil suit is an Armenian and he told me, "Armenians are horrible people, aren't they?"

If you think this is all ok, and somehow I'm libeling him, whatever. I'm just reporting what the newspapers reported and what is widely known in our district and city. Two principals did nothing to stop a predator. Is this stuff "alleged?" Sure. There are things being settled out of court as we speak. But do you find it wise or even slightly good policy to make a principal involved in a cover-up and civil suit accused of impropriety to become ADMINISTRATOR OF THE YEAR!?!?

Take some of these shootings of black youth back east like in St. Louis and Baltimore. Would it be wise to take the white cops who shot these guys and make them "cop of the year" before the entire community? Not really.

I'm telling you that this man has a pattern of manipulating people. I know so many people who have said he personally is a shady character, I've been burned by him, I know other parishioners who find his condescension and haughty attitude off-putting.

You have zero idea what my family has gone through because of him, and being some far-distant poster who doesn't know any of us here and what has transpired, you haven't a clue. If you find me so off-putting, unsubscribe and put me on ignore.

You know, you keep saying that he has covered up abuse in your school district. Do you have irrefutable evidence of this? That is illegal and this deacon can be prosecuted and possible go to jail over this.

So, do you have evidence or not? If you do, have you gone to the authorities? If not, why not?

If you don't have evidence, then my suggestion would be to stop saying that he has covered up abuse. I'm not a lawyer, but I cannot imagine that wouldn't be consider libel if you are making such an accusation here on this forum without evidence and without going to the authorities.

So, if you have not gone to the authorities and you do not have evidence, then please stop saying he has covered up abuse. That is a very serious allegation. I am surprised no one else here picked up on that, then again very few here actually reads the posts on this forum very thoroughly.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

That's a great story, EC! It is awkward, isn't it!?

I feel you gurney. The last time I was in a Catholic church was for the funeral of my friend's sister. I hadn't seen most of that community in about eight years, so you can only imagine the looks of some faces when word spread that I left Catholicism for Orthodoxy.
The priest didn't care; he was just happy I didn't go Protestant!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I totally agree. He has messed up my life, but a chance passing-by encounter at least released a tiny bit of steam. I'll probably see him again at a school district function of some kind. Hard telling.

I'm in the "I totally forgive you but DON'T TRUST YOU AS FAR AS I COULD THROW YOU" mode with him.

The good thing about this gurney is I think the Lord uses these 'timely' encounters as part of the healing process. It forces you/us to deal with the emotions kinda like a pressure valve release. Maybe next time it might be easier and over time the healing will come. It will also probably make you wiser and stronger in the end.

 

[xenia]

Gurney can be disappointed and or angry with me; I don't care. I am appalled that he continues to say very harsh things about a man who (a) is not here to tell his side of the story and (b) is not an anonymous person because Gurney continually gives enough information to allow people to know exactly who he and his family are.

I think this is despicable.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Absolutely I was a good example, sister! The sad, sad thing is, I wanted to talk to him. I wanted to ask him how he's doing, I wanted to reconcile, I wanted NOT to have this situation. I smiled, said "hey there, hi you guys" and kept walking. My instinct was just to keep walking.

I just can't go back to that parish. I can't let a priest and deacon own me like that, get that far into my head, talk down to me, and there be zero accountability between clergy. I can't take wondering if he's trashing me behind my back and speculating if he's gossiping about my confessions to others. I can't take their dynamic. it's cultish.

My heart is still RAW over the whole thing. I find every single solitary day I hurt over this stuff. I miss that parish SO MUCH. I loved the liturgy, building, people, bishop, coffee hours, wonderful long conversations with friends I made there, the intellectual stimulation, and the deep reverence in worship. I miss it profoundly. I ache over this. Frankly I haven't felt this much pain since about 17 years ago when I got fired for the first time in my life blindsided by a cruel, mind-bending boss. She was out to ruin and break me, and she almost did. That was the last time I was this messed up. But what makes this worse is that I loved these two men like Christian brothers to a high degree and valued their friendship and office.

I'm still raw. I wish the open wound would just seal already. Ugh.

I am not kidding when I say that though, that I wanted to talk to them both. I hate feuds, I hate silence, I hate grudges and brooding and bad feelings. I hate it so much!

Lord, I wish this hadn't befallen me.....

Please forgive me if I am intruding but isn't what is said in confession completely and utterly private between the priest (who is there as Christ to hear and absolve) and the person confessing?

 

[Anhelyna]

MC - yes - it should be but ..........

 

[MoreCoffee]

MC - yes - it should be but ..........

I may be mistaken in saying this and I beg your forgiveness if I am but isn't it a very grave sin to break the seal of the confessional?

 

[Anhelyna]

I'll leave an Orthodox Christian to answer that one

 

[pdudgeon]

yes, i've been told that it is definitely not right for a priest to reveal what is said in the confessional.
prayers for you, gurney.

 

[ArmyMatt]

yes, I priest or bishop can be defrocked or deposed for that

 

[ArmyMatt]

and if you want harsh FYI, you should read what St. Porphyrios and Elder Ephraim had to endure under their spiritual fathers. I thought I had it rough under a drill sergeant.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I think your lack of compassion through the whole thing and your hardline antics are despicable. Shame on you. You have no right to judge me whatsoever. Xenia, you think clergy can do no wrong. You've made that clear. Some of us don't bow down to the brain trusts' every whim and some aren't willing to take the verbal and psychological abuse. You haven't a clue about the whole dang thing. High horse at its best. Orthodoxy is a super duper small world and you KNOW THAT. Any idiot could figure out ANY of our parishes on TAW! We all know each other's locations for the most part. As small as Orthodoxy is, someone high on meth hanging upside down in a dark closet could figure out the location and clergy of anybody here. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes.

You haven't sat where I've sat, had him get in your face the way I have, and you haven't been a party to the cronyism and abuse. You don't work in my town or have the slightest clue. It's typical of some types of people to pity the person who did nothing to stop the abuse rather than pity that victim.

Ugh, talk about despicable. Exhibit A.

Gurney can be disappointed and or angry with me; I don't care. I am appalled that he continues to say very harsh things about a man who (a) is not here to tell his side of the story and (b) is not an anonymous person because Gurney continually gives enough information to allow people to know exactly who he and his family are.

I think this is despicable.

 

[GregConstantine]

Wow Gurnery. That was totally uncalled for. All I was doing was trying to give you a friendly warning and you turned around and snarled and hissed at me like a rabid animal!

You said you don't want others to judge your situation, but you sure judged me and my motivations in my post, which was completely wrong and uncalled for.

You have been making that accusation here without adding any evidence. All I was saying that if you don't have it, you could be in danger of being sued for libel. All you had to say was that you have the evidence. You absolutely did not have that take that nasty tone with me or Xenia!

I'm sorry but yes, some here do not read things thoroughly, I can tell by how they respond that they didn't read what I or others post. If that gets your knickers all in a wad, then too bad.

I have to ask myself sometimes why I waste my time here.

I've come to the conclusion that my time here is a waste of time.

So adios to everyone here

 

[jckstraw72]

Gurney, come on, buddy. We all know you're suffering, but it doesn't justify your responses to Xenia and Greg. Your responses really were WAY off base. We all feel for you, we pray for you, but you gotta realize you're just not seeing everything straight. no one is against you, some people are just offering advice.

 

[xenia]

I apologize for my use of the word "despicable." That was excessive.

However, it was past time the brakes were put on this continual trashing of a Holy Orthodox parish, which has been going on for months and showing no sign of abating. It doesn't matter if the clergy are guilty of all the things they have been accused of, it needed to stop. An internet forum is not the place for this kind of venting. I think you all know this in your hearts but out of affection for Gurney, you let it continue.

I am surprised- really surprised- that no one here saw the corrosion this kind of behavior can have on one's soul. This is not the Orthodox way, folks. I believe everyone here has his best interests at heart but sometimes you have to speak the truth in love. I spoke the truth, I believe, but not in love. Forgive me for that.

-Xenia

 

[Jesus4Madrid]

I apologize for my use of the word "despicable." That was excessive.

However, it was past time the brakes were put on this continual trashing of a Holy Orthodox parish, which has been going on for months and showing no sign of abating. It doesn't matter if the clergy are guilty of all the things they have been accused of, it needed to stop. An internet forum is not the place for this kind of venting. I think you all know this in your hearts but out of affection for Gurney, you let it continue.

I am surprised- really surprised- that no one here saw the corrosion this kind of behavior can have on one's soul. This is not the Orthodox way, folks. I believe everyone here has his best interests at heart but sometimes you have to speak the truth in love. I spoke the truth, I believe, but not in love. Forgive me for that.

-Xenia

It is factually incorrect that no one here saw that or spoke up. Several did. But I agree that not enough did.

Those who are hurt have a natural inclination for retribution-to hurt the source of the hurt. But that is precisely the sort of passion that we need to avoid as imitators of Christ. Of course, that is easy to say and, in this, I am admittedly the worst of sinners, so I implicate myself.

I also think that this sort of incessant public chastisement of another person is not good for anyone's soul, including passive readers whose interest is piqued by a scandal. I do not think we need to tear down one in order to empathise with the genuine hurts and struggles of another.

Does "bearing one another's burdens", which is virtuous, necessarily lead to gossip, which is sin? I know I don't always get this balance right.

 

[Jesus4Madrid]

.