So I'm at Costco almost done shopping, walking down the last two aisles, and who

[gurneyhalleck1]

do you think ole Gurney runs into......ughhhhhh

:o

 

[truefiction1]

Geddy Lee?

 

[buzuxi02]

Hmm, I wonder if his title rhymes with getting your "freak on".

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I'd pee my drawers if I ran into Geddy, man! Love that dude!!!! I'd ask him to give me some YYZ bass lessons!

Geddy Lee?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

On a serious note, my 3 kids and I ran into the deacon and his wife. Oh man. To use the word "awkward" would be the understatement of the millenium! Ugh....

 

[buzuxi02]

Since when do you have 3 kids? I keep thinking your a newlywed. Maybe not newly but like 5 or 6 years

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I'm 40 years old, I have two sons and a daughter ages 9, 8, and 7. I've been married almost 16 years! I've mentioned my kids a ton in here, Buz. Come on, dude!

Since when do you have 3 kids? I keep thinking your a newlywed. Maybe not newly but like 5 or 6 years

 

[Anhelyna]

OOPS - that was a trifle difficult

I'm sure though that you were polite - even though you would have preferred not to be .

I'm sure you set a very good example to your kids

 

[dzheremi]

Achhhh...been there. Chance meetings with (purposely) ex-parishioners are so unpleasant. For me it was the husband of one of the ladies who helped out in the RCIA class I had attended years earlier, and in a Safeway (what is it with these people and grocery stores/food places, huh?). I figured I could just pass by, as I was in town after some absence visiting family, and I had only met this guy three or four times, at that point almost 10 years prior (this was just before I was to be baptized into the COC, but in a completely different state, for goodness' sake!). True to form -- it being a very, very small town (12 K maybe...if there's an exceedingly large parade going through town or something) -- he didn't let me get away that easily! "Jeremy, why haven't we seen you at mass in the last few years?" "Well, I do live in a different state, and have for years now..." "Oh, I see. Well, are you attending mass there, at least?" "Eh...no. I have to...go...over there...now...bye."

That's really how it went. Except probably with even more awkward pauses.

You have my sympathy. Stay strong. If it starts to rattle you, just remember those deep Costco discounts on bulk cheerios and such. (Or switch to a different Costco. Whatever works.)

 

[prodromos]

do you think ole Gurney runs into......ughhhhhh

Oh no! What has happened to our beloved headscarf wearing smiley making the sign of the cross!

 

[prodromos]

My arabic letter "nun" has gone awol too. Its a conspiracy I say, and its totally connected with you running into the deac head at Costco, I'm certain of it!

Just discovered that existing polls are borked too. Just loving this update so far

 

[ArmyMatt]

oh man, I can't say I envy you on that one man. Lord have mercy!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Absolutely I was a good example, sister! The sad, sad thing is, I wanted to talk to him. I wanted to ask him how he's doing, I wanted to reconcile, I wanted NOT to have this situation. I smiled, said "hey there, hi you guys" and kept walking. My instinct was just to keep walking.

I just can't go back to that parish. I can't let a priest and deacon own me like that, get that far into my head, talk down to me, and there be zero accountability between clergy. I can't take wondering if he's trashing me behind my back and speculating if he's gossiping about my confessions to others. I can't take their dynamic. it's cultish.

My heart is still RAW over the whole thing. I find every single solitary day I hurt over this stuff. I miss that parish SO MUCH. I loved the liturgy, building, people, bishop, coffee hours, wonderful long conversations with friends I made there, the intellectual stimulation, and the deep reverence in worship. I miss it profoundly. I ache over this. Frankly I haven't felt this much pain since about 17 years ago when I got fired for the first time in my life blindsided by a cruel, mind-bending boss. She was out to ruin and break me, and she almost did. That was the last time I was this messed up. But what makes this worse is that I loved these two men like Christian brothers to a high degree and valued their friendship and office.

I'm still raw. I wish the open wound would just seal already. Ugh.

I am not kidding when I say that though, that I wanted to talk to them both. I hate feuds, I hate silence, I hate grudges and brooding and bad feelings. I hate it so much!

Lord, I wish this hadn't befallen me.....

OOPS - that was a trifle difficult

I'm sure though that you were polite - even though you would have preferred not to be .

I'm sure you set a very good example to your kids

 

[Anhelyna]

I've been in some places that have given me problems - but never quite like that.

You're right - it's still far too raw and things like this take a LOT of healing and I often wonder if they ever really do heal. Maybe we just get better at dealing with it ?

 

[buzuxi02]

I'm 40 years old, I have two sons and a daughter ages 9, 8, and 7. I've been married almost 16 years! I've mentioned my kids a ton in here, Buz. Come on, dude!

Wow God bless! I knew you had atleast one kid. Your my age and youve been married 16 years! Thats a record nowadays. Boy, do i feel like a loser still being single.

 

[Kristos]

OY! Sounds like you handled okay though...

I was up in Fresno the other week (Clovis & Sanger actually) and I thought about you

 

[Antony in Tx]

I think I would talk to them. I would not bring up the controversy until they (and they inevitably would) ask about how you are doing or why you are not attending. At that point, I would very matter of factly and as dispassionately as possible state, "I was very hurt by the level of betrayal I felt when you did/said XYZ. It's going to take a lot to heal that, and I'm not sure if I can return unless I know that you understand your role in that."

That said, I have no idea how they would respond, but it'd be the only way I know of to put the ball in their court.

Lord have mercy!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I hear ya, Antony, but honestly I'm not good at thinking on my toes like that and I'm not a confrontational dude. There was a time I really loved this man (as a Christian of course! LOL), and felt such kinship and respect for him. I wanted to talk to him, not about this conflict, but to have one of our good old conversations before I found out what kind of a person he truly is. The fact is, John doesn't see his role in this AT ALL. He's incapable. I'm the kind of guy who beats himself up all the time, always figures I'M the one who caused every problem, and I'm my biggest critic. When we're at church and I pray the "chief of sinners" line, I TRULY MEAN IT. I'm hard on myself. I try to give others the benefit of the doubt. But with this fiasco, I've soul-searched for months now. I've prayed, had some tears, had a LOT of sleepless nights, and my soul has no rest at all. And in the midst of all this soul-searching regarding the whole debacle, I cannot find my own wrongdoing in it. You know, trust me, I WISH I COULD! I wish I could be the one at fault and go apologize to someone! I really mean that! That way I could go back.

But the problem with John, his character flaw that is deep, is he cannot and does not apologize TO ANYONE. He has wronged me before and didn't own up to it. I apologized for MY PART, he didn't for his. he just hugged me as if to say, "yes, you were wrong, I'm glad you see that now, let's be friends again." For me, when two people are wrong, only when they both own up to it and confess the sin and show humility will the bridge be rebuilt. He never rebuilt it. Why? When he verbally assaulted me about my choices as a dad and our school decisions and just lambasted me, he saw no trespass in it. He thought that's what good godfathers do. Then when he tore me a new rectum in that hurtful text, he thought he was playing the role of St. Paul chastising Corinthians and sticking up for his priest whom I was attacking somehow. John always sees HEROICS in his verbal sparring and nasty barbs, not sin or cruelty or alienation caused to his victims. The same was true of the pharisees in Scripture. They always thought their legalistic junk was helpful and just and that God was on their side.

Father is like King Theoden, and John is like Grima Wormtongue. It has been a slow possession over a trickle that has lasted for 5 years now. He has steadily warped our priest's mind. Father has always had a struggle (admittedly to us all) with gossip and judging people based on shallow things. He admits it. He knows it. John has come along and affirmed his sins and given them strength to grow. It's like an alcoholic hanging out with a guy who says, "yeah, I know you've been sober for six months, but you owe it to yourself to reward yourself with a few brewskies, bro! You've earned it! You're not an alcoholic! Listen to me, man!"

John is willing to tell ME things he thinks I don't want to hear but need (I don't need them), but with Father he's only willing to say what will build Father's ego and his comfort.

There is no repentance with John, Antony, that's why I'm not even trying with this guy.

Plus he was with his wife, a shark in her own right (she's a CEO), and it was 2 against 1. I don't like those odds!

But I did underestimate how I'd feel when I saw him again. I knew it would happen sooner or later. I just didn't expect to feel so sad and to remember how much I loved and cared about him. But then again, that's John's charm. He covered up and ignored sex abuse at his school as a principal while also having lawsuits thrown down at him, yet guess what? HE WAS MADE ADMINISTRATOR OF THE YEAR IN OUR DISTRICT! That million dollar smile of his and hugs and effeminate warmth he throws at people, it goes a long way to cover up the pharisee within.

I've meditated on forgiveness and humility for months now. At what point does forgiveness and reunion come together and at what point does one forgive and yet move away from the perp? I read most of "Our Thoughts Determine Our Lives" by Elder Thaddeus and couldn't get over how his masters BEAT HIM DOWN in the ascetic life. He was harshly treated and often mistreated if you ask me by the abbots and such in the monasteries. He put up with a TON of guff. It seemed horrible to me. Then I thought, "should I mimick Elder Thaddeus, return to St. Peter's and endure Father and Deacon's abuse for humility's sake? Do I do that and show God I love Him through humiliation and emptying myself of ego?" I thought this over many times. I really considered it, but then I thought, "would I advice my daughter to return to her husband if he had beaten and assaulted her? Sure it would show humility on her part, but is it healthy and safe?" I know it's a bit apples and oranges, but what I'm trying to say is that returning to the perp as victim doesn't always need to accompany forgiveness. I forgive those two but don't trust them. I think it would send the message to them, "see, the sucker came back. What a sucker. He can take the abuse and we can dish it out. We're clergy!" That's just how I feel with these two.

I don't know what God is leading me to. I just keep praying to Him to have HIS will done in me rather than my own. Prayers from my dear friends in TAW here would mean much.

I think I would talk to them. I would not bring up the controversy until they (and they inevitably would) ask about how you are doing or why you are not attending. At that point, I would very matter of factly and as dispassionately as possible state, "I was very hurt by the level of betrayal I felt when you did/said XYZ. It's going to take a lot to heal that, and I'm not sure if I can return unless I know that you understand your role in that."

That said, I have no idea how they would respond, but it'd be the only way I know of to put the ball in their court.

Lord have mercy!

 

[ArmyMatt]

I feel for you man. that will always happen to folks until Judgment Day. pray for them, keep forgiving them, find another Orthodox Church and you can start healing. the abbot here said that we are called to love everyone, which is not the same as liking someone.

 

[GregConstantine]

You know, you keep saying that he has covered up abuse in your school district. Do you have irrefutable evidence of this? That is illegal and this deacon can be prosecuted and possible go to jail over this.

So, do you have evidence or not? If you do, have you gone to the authorities? If not, why not?

If you don't have evidence, then my suggestion would be to stop saying that he has covered up abuse. I'm not a lawyer, but I cannot imagine that wouldn't be consider libel if you are making such an accusation here on this forum without evidence and without going to the authorities.

So, if you have not gone to the authorities and you do not have evidence, then please stop saying he has covered up abuse. That is a very serious allegation. I am surprised no one else here picked up on that, then again very few here actually reads the posts on this forum very thoroughly.