Set Free from Religion!

[nephilimiyr]

I define religion as man reaching out to God to earn a relationship.

Christianity is not a religion. It is a relationship with God that was initiated by God.

The reason why the word religion has earned such a bad rap with certain people is because of this "earning a relationship with God". We don't earn a relationship with God, He grants it to us.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

Hmmm, do you mean relationship or Salvation. Salvation is given freely by the Lord.

In my experience, a relationship requires action between two people.

 

[Optimax]

Hmmm, do you mean relationship or Salvation. Salvation is given freely by the Lord.

In my experience, a relationship requires action between two people.

When we are born again a Relationship with God is established.
Example: He is my Father, I am his son.

Action between us is Fellowship.

Many have a relationship with God, but no/very little Fellowship.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

OoooK,
Do you usually obey your Father? Talk to him, have dialogue?

 

[Optimax]

OoooK,
Do you usually obey your Father? Talk to him, have dialogue?

I miss it more often than I should.

Thank God that he gave us 1 Jn 1:9, the fellowship restorer.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

Me too, you get my point though?

 

[nephilimiyr]

Hmmm, do you mean relationship or Salvation. Salvation is given freely by the Lord.

In my experience, a relationship requires action between two people.

It all depends on what the motivations for those actions are in that relationship. If you are acting in a way to get God to accept you more, love you more, or to favor you more, those are the wrong motives. Those are actions to get God to do something that He already does. What you are esencially doing is saying that your relationship with him isn't based on Christ and his finished work but based on your actions, and that is wrong.

However, if the motivations are simply to show God how thankful you are to him and how much you love him, then those are the right motivations and He will gladly accept it.

There is no possible way for God to accept you more than He already does. There is no possible way for God to love you more than He already does. There is no possible way for God to favor you more than He already does. So the message is, stop trying to get God to do these things that He already does and simply rest in Him and know that you are his.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

Neph, I totally agree with you.

My problem is loving Him back as much as I should or loving you and my brothers and sisters as much as He commands me to.
However, I know it has nothing to do with how much He loves me.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Neph, I totally agree with you.

My problem is loving Him back as much as I should or loving you and my brothers and sisters as much as He commands me to.
However, I know it has nothing to do with how much He loves me.

Exactly PC, but how we love others is something I think the Holy Spirit works with us on. We are a work in progress but I believe that we are his workmanship. We need to pray for ourselves, pray for our heart because it's through our heart where we get the motivations to love others and God.

And because you are Roman Catholic please allow me to say this. I don't believe that ritual and or ceremony in any church, no matter what it is, is bad. What makes it bad is the way people use those rituals and ceremonies. If they are doing it simply because they believe they are obeying God and they want to honor and love him back then I have no problem.

 

[nephilimiyr]

The point is that our religious traditions, rituals etc., etc. is not a means to get God to love you more or favor you more than He already does. People sometimes begin to believe that their performance of these traditions and rituals will help them achieve better standing with God but I totally reject that because a persons performance has nothing to do with God loving them or showing them favor in their life. I think it is good if those traditions and rituals help you understand God in a better way. When used for another purpose other than that I see it as people believeing they have to perform for God.

I see alot of people out there who are hard on themselves and or others because of sin and of the guilt and shame that they feel, they then tend to believe that God feels the same way about them that they do and they turn to consintrating on their performance thinking that that will settle the score. I however have learned that God is not feeling that way but when we are fallen down, when sin has crept back in, God isn't mad at us or somehow holding a grude and waiting for you to perform for Him so that He can once again love you and favor you as His Child. As long as we don't totally reject Him, nothing can change our status as being the child of God that He sees us as. Gods love for us and His favor upon our lives does not fluctuate according to our performance. Yes He may discipline us when needed but this is out of love and only according to His word.



As many here may know, I am a former-Catholic. When I was growing up in the RCC and going to confession I had a certain bad religious attitude about it. When you're done confessing the Priest then tells you to go back and say something like 2 Our father's and 2 Haily Mary's. Ok, I would go back to my pew and believe that God would not forgive me of my sins until after I said those prayers. That is a performamce based religious attitude.

I have since learned that that isn't even what the RCC teaches, it's just something I felt in my heart that I had to do to get God to forgive me. I have since learned that the true pirpose of saying those prayers isn't for you to get God to forgive you but to get you on in the mind set of repentence. And that is pretty much what the RCC has always taught, but it didn't matter to me what they taught, it mattered more to me what I felt was right. And what I slowly taught myself was that I had to perform for God to get Him to forgive me and to love me again like he used to.

This was a bad religious attitude on my part and it wasn't even something that the RCC taught, but that didn't matter to me. I believe, because I have witnessed it, that both Catholic and Protestant people, not all, have some sort of personal belief they or the enemy has built in them that tells them, no matter what their church or denomination teaches them, that our performance is what earns us God's love and favor.

 

[Alpine]

Of course most Charismatic/Pentecostal churches have created their own traditions.

When I have called mainline denominations and the RCC religious, I mean most of the adherents seem to go through the motions, and are cultural Christians. They don't really seem to believe, but they trust in their baptism and church choice as enough to be righteous.

Where I live, the majority of people are either Lutheran or Catholic, and there are no shortage of religious people who go through the motions.

 

[lismore]

Of course most Charismatic/Pentecostal churches have created their own traditions.

When I have called mainline denominations and the RCC religious, I mean most of the adherents seem to go through the motions, and are cultural Christians. They don't really seem to believe, but they trust in their baptism and church choice as enough to be righteous.

Where I live, the majority of people are either Lutheran or Catholic, and there are no shortage of religious people who go through the motions.

Yes. In my former pentecostal church there were people who were not born again or saved. In fact a visiting Evangelist came and shared a very powerful gospel message and six of the members went out for salvation that night, including an usher and one of the worship team. That Usher had spoek to me before about her fear of death!

There are people in pentecostal churches who 'go through the motions' as you say and have never had a conversion experience with Christ.

Usually the Catholic Church or traditional denominations would get the boot in sermons as being 'religious'. However, my grandmother was saved in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. She knew a born again priest, nuns and a monseignor. They were on fire for the Lord! I know there are people who love the Lord in the Catholic Church and other 'traditional' churches, like Peaceful Dove here.

 

[GrapeGirl]

Every building of believers has it's own rules and traditions. At my church, I dare you to take away the 7 minute coffee break and see what happens! But I do know that some are more rediculous than others. We are all guilty of it. I have my own routines that I have to do in my every day life or else I flip a lid. If something gets out of order in scheduling or daily life or whatever, I don't know what to do with myself. That's just my personality. I don't think that most "churches" are consciously being "religious" even though those who are pointing the finger think the opposite.

I totally do not understand the RCC, but I wasn't raised in it, and my experience with it is limited. The legalism in the Pentecostal/AOG circles more concerns me than the ritualism of it. However, I tend to believe that a lot of the legalism is a result (perhaps not direct) of the ritualistic ways of that congregation. People get stuck in a rut. It happens. Thats when they need to be broken to pieces. That's the best way to break out of a "mold" in my opinion.

Sorry. I'm rambling.

 

[Alpine]

There are people in pentecostal churches who 'go through the motions' as you say and have never had a conversion experience with Christ.

Lismore I agree, there are unsaved people in our circles. However, I would say the chances are higher there are more unsaved people in the catholic church than pentecostal/charismatic. However, I am not God and I cannot judge peoples hearts. I could be totally wrong.

Also, one of my friends is a catholic who is defintley a Christian. I know there are true Christians in the catholic church. That's not what I'm implying. I just think there are also a lot of cultural Christians in the RCC, at least around here.

Sorry. I'm rambling.

No your not. Good post.

 

[lismore]

Lismore I agree, there are unsaved people in our circles. However, I would say the chances are higher there are more unsaved people in the catholic church than pentecostal/charismatic. However, I am not God and I cannot judge peoples hearts. I could be totally wrong.

Also, one of my friends is a catholic who is defintley a Christian. I know there are true Christians in the catholic church. That's not what I'm implying. I just think there are also a lot of cultural Christians in the RCC, at least around here.

Hello There

No I didnt think you were implying that. I agree with your post, perhaps we should not become complacent as charismatic Christians but always be relying on God and not on our own understanding. When we think we can stand it is then we will fall. God should always be our source and resource, not programmes or methods.

God Bless

 

[millerrod2]

Hello

I hear from pentecostal/charismatic Christians quite a lot that they have been 'set free from religion'.

What does that mean?

I started out in the Catholic Church, later I spent 8 years in AOG.

Usually mud is slinged at the RCC for its 'religion', but I saw that AOG has their own little traditions, their own little rules and little rituals.

I dont understand this 'free from religion' quote in that regard. I was just as religious in AOG as in the Catholic Church.

Any insight?

{When discussing please discuss with love for one another as if Jesus was listening to your every word, as indeed he is}

set free from the restraints of a specific doctrine which tho may be truth is truth in part. to me being free from religion is to experience and live the whole of scripture not bound to a specific part but free in the whole of scripture found in the simplicity of loving God nd all people. brother rod

 

[GodsLit'lGirl]

So they use their performance as a way and means to get God back on their side.

under what conditions would God be away from their side?

 

[nephilimiyr]

under what conditions would God be away from their side?

Well, you have to follow what I was saying. I'm saying people think or feel this.

Have you ever talked to someone who believes that if you sin and before you confess or repent of that sin and die that God is then going to condemn them to hell?

It's usually about performance, it's what they are doing or failing to do that gets people to think that God is mad at them and not on their side. As I stated, God's love and favor on our life doesn't fluctuate according to our performance, whether that's performing under the law or set of rules. God isn't going to turn a deaf ear to you because you told a lie to a friend of yours today. God doesn't put up a wall between you and him because you fell into lust last night. This is what I'm talking about.

But there's a religious mind set out there, because I have talked to these people and have been there myself, who believe that it's their actions, their performance, it's what they do or don't do that makes God love them and favor them. Religion is mostly about us doing something, but being a born again christian isn't about us doing or not doing something it's about us being something. It's about who we are, not what we're doing.

 

[pinetree]

Lismore I agree, there are unsaved people in our circles. However, I would say the chances are higher there are more unsaved people in the catholic church than pentecostal/charismatic. However, I am not God and I cannot judge peoples hearts. I could be totally wrong.

Also, one of my friends is a catholic who is defintley a Christian. I know there are true Christians in the catholic church. That's not what I'm implying. I just think there are also a lot of cultural Christians in the RCC, at least around here.





No your not. Good post.

 

[nephilimiyr]

There was no action on our part that made it possible for us to become the sons and daughters of God.

John 1:12-13, Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

God does not give and take that right away, especially according to our performance. If there was nothing we did to become the children of God there is nothing that we can do that will change that. Yet there are alot of people who believe that their status of being a child of God is constantly changing because of their actions. And to settle scores and win back Gods approval and their sonship they believe they can perform for him and He will change his mind. It is about a self righteousness but not all.

Many also believe that God is constantly angry with them because of their sins or lack of faith or trust. God may still see them as his child but He is a mean daddy when provoked. It's not all about childhood status but about whether God is disappointed and holding a grudge against them. So people turn to performance in order to keep God happy. That is a bad religious mind set.