Seeking God or an experience of God: what's the difference?

[AudioArtist]

This is a very simple thought, but it has had quite a profound effect on me.

Why is it that people always distinguish between seeking God and seeking an experience of God's presence? Why is seeking His supernatural power often put in opposition to seeking to be more like Him? Surely, when we seek to be with someone and to learn from them, we also seek an experience of their presence. When I want to be with a human I love and respect, I am seeking an experience with that individual; in fact, when I say, "I want to meet with x", it means that I both want to get to know that individual better and that I want to be in the presence of that individual. Interaction is an experience; life is experience. Reading words and being profoundly moved by them is an experience. The distinctions Christians put around all these things make no sense to me, because an honest desire to experience God will result in changed behaviour, if a person obeys what he or she has learned, just as an honest desire to understand the Bible will lead to positive change, if a person chooses obedience.

If somebody is just after an experience, and they find that this experience can be found in a Church, then that is a completely separate issue and must not be confused with people who seek to be in God's actual presence, which is the same as seeking God Himself. If somebody is just after "experience" minus God, then they are possibly not interested in Truth anyway. But such people come from all denominations of Christianity; some exchange the emotional high they get with Church atmosphere with the intellectual high they get from understanding very involved theology; the issue with such people is not that they seek the powerful presence of God over God, because both of these are the same, but that they are not seeking God at all.

 

[Cassidy]

Yeh confusing - I see what you mean. It's almost like seeking God isn't enough for them...do they not trust that God will reveal whatever it is about himself when HE is ready and when HE thinks you are ready to receive it.

I don't know...I just seek his kingdom and righeousness in my life, I find that that covers anything that God wants to show me whenever he feels I need it. Sometimes it's experience....sometimes presence...sometimes it's just a revelation of some sort...and sometimes it's just merely a feeling of contentment<--- which is sometimes all I need.

Whatever way the Lord wishes to communicate with me, I am assured, it's exactly what I need at exactly the time I need it....I prefer to wait for his timing rather than demanding of him and experience or 'presence' that perhaps I don't really need from Him right now.

Do you understand all that ramble or am I just nuts? LOL

 

[AudioArtist]

Yeh confusing - I see what you mean. It's almost like seeking God isn't enough for them...do they not trust that God will reveal whatever it is about himself when HE is ready and when HE thinks you are ready to receive it.

I don't know...I just seek his kingdom and righeousness in my life, I find that that covers anything that God wants to show me whenever he feels I need it. Sometimes it's experience....sometimes presence...sometimes it's just a revelation of some sort...and sometimes it's just merely a feeling of contentment<--- which is sometimes all I need.

Whatever way the Lord wishes to communicate with me, I am assured, it's exactly what I need at exactly the time I need it....I prefer to wait for his timing rather than demanding of him and experience or 'presence' that perhaps I don't really need from Him right now.

Do you understand all that ramble or am I just nuts? LOL

No, it makes perfect sense.

I think these two verses are key to all of this:

Matthew 18:2-3
2He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 11:11-13
11"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

 

[nephilimiyr]

Hi AudioArtist, good thread, and good question.

The way I think of it, having an experience from God is all apart of seeking him, but it's only one part. Seeking God congers up different meanings though, like truth. If I'm seeking God I am escentially seeking truth, not necessarily an experience with him. The experience will come after I have found the truth.

Seeking Him should always come before seeking an experience with him, I think.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

Maybe some are just seeking His presence versus his truth somethimes? I myself dont categorize God. Anyway He comes I am thrilled!

 

[NaLuvena]

This is a very simple thought, but it has had quite a profound effect on me.

Why is it that people always distinguish between seeking God and seeking an experience of God's presence? Why is seeking His supernatural power often put in opposition to seeking to be more like Him? Surely, when we seek to be with someone and to learn from them, we also seek an experience of their presence. When I want to be with a human I love and respect, I am seeking an experience with that individual; in fact, when I say, "I want to meet with x", it means that I both want to get to know that individual better and that I want to be in the presence of that individual. Interaction is an experience; life is experience. Reading words and being profoundly moved by them is an experience. The distinctions Christians put around all these things make no sense to me, because an honest desire to experience God will result in changed behaviour, if a person obeys what he or she has learned, just as an honest desire to understand the Bible will lead to positive change, if a person chooses obedience.

If somebody is just after an experience, and they find that this experience can be found in a Church, then that is a completely separate issue and must not be confused with people who seek to be in God's actual presence, which is the same as seeking God Himself. If somebody is just after "experience" minus God, then they are possibly not interested in Truth anyway. But such people come from all denominations of Christianity; some exchange the emotional high they get with Church atmosphere with the intellectual high they get from understanding very involved theology; the issue with such people is not that they seek the powerful presence of God over God, because both of these are the same, but that they are not seeking God at all.

I agree. You cannot have an seeking an experience from God without experiencing God.

 

[pinetree]

Whats up dude!

You are a solid brother with a great heart!

Psalm 16:11
You have made known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand.

 

[whatfor]

Moses didn't want to enter the promised land if God's presence didn't go with him.
What is wrong with that?

 

[cyberlizard]

i would say the difference between the two is one of motive.....

if I said i loved my wife (and in return she fed me, or anything else that springs into your minds) then that would be acceptable.

if I said my wife feeds me (or does other things for me) and because of that I love her.... that would effectively be abuse of the relationship.

why.... it would not be driven by love, but by greed and covetousness.



Steve

p.s. which of the two do you think God likes most.

 

[AudioArtist]

i would say the difference between the two is one of motive.....

if I said i loved my wife (and in return she fed me, or anything else that springs into your minds) then that would be acceptable.

if I said my wife feeds me (or does other things for me) and because of that I love her.... that would effectively be abuse of the relationship.

why.... it would not be driven by love, but by greed and covetousness.



Steve

p.s. which of the two do you think God likes most.

I think I partly answered this in the second half of the O.P by distinguishing between an experience and an experience of God's presence... but:

I think God likes both. I am not ashamed to admit that I love God because of what He has done for me and because of what I know of His presence. In fact, I don't really understand how anyone could love anything without having some knowledge of their presence or without them having done something for them. Do you? I couldn't imagine loving the concept of "God" divorced from what He does for us and His reality. It'd be a bit like loving a fictional character from a book - something else I could never do, though I do love literature. That's why God commands us to be filled, continually, perhaps.

 

[Deba]

Hi Ya'll

A subject near and dear to my heart.

Have you ever asked yourself, "Why does God move in such a way that I can actually experience His physical presence in my physical body?"

Well I have and here is my theory. When we are new to the faith, we by and large live entirely in the physical world. We have no or limited spiritual awareness, so God comes to us and brings His spiritual realm into our physical world. When we experience His visitation we do so on many levels, physical, emotional and spiritual. It is how He teaches us about Himself (and ourself).

Now I quickly figured out that such an experience cleansed me internally, and the gardener in me knows that nature hates a void -if you don't plant something weeds will take over. So after such an encounter with God I stay where I am - sometimes for hours - to give Him time to plant something in me that He wants me to have.

Over time He developed my spiritual dimension enough so that I did not need the experience of His physical presence to know that somehow He had united Himself with me. In my thoughts, in my desires, in my pain He is joined with me. Over time I could look back and see that what I wanted to do and did do, is what He wanted me to do (although I seldom understand the purpose). My life is lived for His purposes-despite my failures and weakness (which are not an obstacle for Him - after all He is God so I don't have to try and be.)

So I think that always seeking the thrill is like being addicted to spiritual milk without a proper understanding that God has food for us to eat.

Wine was served in goblets of gold, each one different from the other, and the royal wine was abundant, in keeping with the king's liberality. By the king's command each guest was allowed to drink in his own way, for the king instructed all the wine stewards to serve each man what he wished.
Esther 1:7,8

 

[AudioArtist]

Hi Ya'll

A subject near and dear to my heart.

Have you ever asked yourself, "Why does God move in such a way that I can actually experience His physical presence in my physical body?"

Well I have and here is my theory. When we are new to the faith, we by and large live entirely in the physical world. We have no or limited spiritual awareness, so God comes to us and brings His spiritual realm into our physical world. When we experience His visitation we do so on many levels, physical, emotional and spiritual. It is how He teaches us about Himself (and ourself).

Now I quickly figured out that such an experience cleansed me internally, and the gardener in me knows that nature hates a void -if you don't plant something weeds will take over. So after such an encounter with God I stay where I am - sometimes for hours - to give Him time to plant something in me that He wants me to have.

Over time He developed my spiritual dimension enough so that I did not need the experience of His physical presence to know that somehow He had united Himself with me. In my thoughts, in my desires, in my pain He is joined with me. Over time I could look back and see that what I wanted to do and did do, is what He wanted me to do (although I seldom understand the purpose). My life is lived for His purposes-despite my failures and weakness (which are not an obstacle for Him - after all He is God I am not.)

So I think that always seeking the thrill is like being addicted to spiritual milk without a proper understanding that God has food for us to eat.

That is profound; thanks for that. Unlike some approaches to these things, there is something hopeful here that can be applied.

 

[ydouxist]

Hi AudioArtist, good thread, and good question.

The way I think of it, having an experience from God is all apart of seeking him, but it's only one part. Seeking God congers up different meanings though, like truth. If I'm seeking God I am escentially seeking truth, not necessarily an experience with him. The experience will come after I have found the truth.

Seeking Him should always come before seeking an experience with him, I think.

I was thinking the same thing.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

 

[Optimax]

As was stated in the OP we all strongly desire experiences with God. There is nothing wrong with that. When those times happen we remember them.

Seeking experiences with God however, can lead us into an experience that seems and feels great but may not be God. and probably was not.

Seek God through His Word do what is read and experiences with God will take care of themselves.

 

[imperfectchristian]

This is a very simple thought, but it has had quite a profound effect on me.

Why is it that people always distinguish between seeking God and seeking an experience of God's presence? Why is seeking His supernatural power often put in opposition to seeking to be more like Him? Surely, when we seek to be with someone and to learn from them, we also seek an experience of their presence. When I want to be with a human I love and respect, I am seeking an experience with that individual; in fact, when I say, "I want to meet with x", it means that I both want to get to know that individual better and that I want to be in the presence of that individual. Interaction is an experience; life is experience. Reading words and being profoundly moved by them is an experience. The distinctions Christians put around all these things make no sense to me, because an honest desire to experience God will result in changed behaviour, if a person obeys what he or she has learned, just as an honest desire to understand the Bible will lead to positive change, if a person chooses obedience.

If somebody is just after an experience, and they find that this experience can be found in a Church, then that is a completely separate issue and must not be confused with people who seek to be in God's actual presence, which is the same as seeking God Himself. If somebody is just after "experience" minus God, then they are possibly not interested in Truth anyway. But such people come from all denominations of Christianity; some exchange the emotional high they get with Church atmosphere with the intellectual high they get from understanding very involved theology; the issue with such people is not that they seek the powerful presence of God over God, because both of these are the same, but that they are not seeking God at all.

This is something I have been thinking about as well recently. It is actually opposite in some circles that I am in. People who say they want God, but do not want to experience His presence.

I must say it is my experience in the presence of God that makes me a follower and seeker after Him.

I think a good percerntage of people talk negatively about "experiencing God" and see it as an emotional high either because they have not had an experience or they are afraid of having one...afraid of losing control.

What so many do not realize is that experiencing the manifest presence of God is better than life itself.

Psalms 63:1-7​

1 O God, you are my God,
earnestly I seek you;
my soul thirsts for you,
my body longs for you,
in a dry and weary land
where there is no water. ​

2 I have seen you in the sanctuary
and beheld your power and your glory. ​

3 Because your love is better than life,
my lips will glorify you. ​

4 I will praise you as long as I live,
and in your name I will lift up my hands. ​

5 My soul will be satisfied as with the richest of foods;
with singing lips my mouth will praise you. ​

6 On my bed I remember you;
I think of you through the watches of the night. ​

7 Because you are my help,
I sing in the shadow of your wings.​

 

[irenemcg]

Exo 33:18 And he said, I beseech thee, show me thy glory

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

This kind of knowledge comes through living in close contact and personal relationship with the Lord. Knowing God and His Son Jesus is the heart of eternal life.

We need our own personal revelation with God, and that comes out of relationship.

Do you see the desire Moses had for God here?

Exo 33:13 Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, show me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people.

God answered him.
Exo 33:14 And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.

See here the beautiful assurance of God&#8217;s perpetual guidance and care.

Still though Moses wanted more: Exo 33:18 And he said, I beseech thee, show me thy glory.


God answered

Exo 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy. Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.


David had the same kind of desire:

Psa 27:4 One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to inquire in his temple.

Psa 42:1 To the chief Musician, Maschil, for the sons of Korah. As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.
Psa 42:2 My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

Psa 63:1 A Psalm of David, when he was in the wilderness of Judah. O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;
Psa 63:2 To see thy power and thy glory, so as I have seen thee in the sanctuary.
Psa 63:3 Because thy lovingkindness is better than life, my lips shall praise thee.
Psa 63:4 Thus will I bless thee while I live: I will lift up my hands in thy name.


Paul also had this desire:

Phi 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Phi 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Phi 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;


Our desire should be to live to the praise of His glory:

Eph 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers,
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,


COME THIRSTY

Come thirsty and drink from those living waters,
Drink from them and you will never thirst again,
For the Lord will refresh you with those waters,
And He just longs to pour out his love upon men.

Seek first the Kingdom and walk in righteousness,
And you will not have to worry about life&#8217;s necessities,
So give your all over in obedient service of the Lord,
For he has promised to provide for you in the Word.

Take your eyes off of all this life&#8217;s problems,
Instead turn your eyes around and focus on Jesus,
He is looking for lovers among the world of men,
For it was surely the Lord who first loved us.

From that place of refreshment we will run the race,
And surely as we seek Him we will gaze upon his face,
Can&#8217;t you feel that longing deep within your heart?
A longing to be now and forever for Him set apart.

Irene McGough 2008

 

[Tamara224]

I think that often when people talk about seeking God vs. seeking and experience what they mean is more along the lines of seeking God for who He is vs. seeking to have a certain kind of experience (which usually means, seeking to feel a certain thing).

I've seen it often in Pentecostal circles where people go to church and expect God to show up in a certain way - they expect certain feelings, certain manifestations, certain gifts in operation.

An analogy... A person says they love Joe Montana (forgive me, I'm not a sports person so I know this may be outdated) and they are seeking Joe Montana, so they go to all the footballs games Joe Montana plays. But what do they love about Joe Montana? Do they love his personality? His sense of humor? No, they like the thrill they get when they see Joe throw a good pass and win a game. So, they like the experience that Joe Montana gives them, but not really Joe himself... they don't even know Joe. They wouldn't be the least bit excited if they went to a football game and Joe didn't play, or sat next to them in the stands quietly instead of getting on the field, or played another position even.

It's not so much that people wanting to experience God is bad... or that they seek to experience God. It's that the experience they are seeking from God is a thrill ride according to what they think God should or will do. They're not open to God revealing something about Himself in a different way. They're not seeking to really get to know God as He is and as He chooses to move.

Seeking to experience God is a great thing - because like the OP says learning about God is an experience in itself, getting to know God is an experience (everything we do is an experience). We just need to be sure that we're open to experiences that we didn't preconceive. God doesn't always do what we expect Him to do.

 

[irenemcg]

It should never be about going to church and seeking to experience God there and only there, it's about experiencing God 24/7. I mean being so in tune to the Lord that He is your first wakening thought, that your desire at all times is to do things His way, and yes you might get it wrong but your desire is to know Him more, to hear His voice more , to draw closer and closer to Him.

 

[toolite]

This is a very simple thought, but it has had quite a profound effect on me.

Why is it that people always distinguish between seeking God and seeking an experience of God's presence? Why is seeking His supernatural power often put in opposition to seeking to be more like Him? Surely, when we seek to be with someone and to learn from them, we also seek an experience of their presence. When I want to be with a human I love and respect, I am seeking an experience with that individual; in fact, when I say, "I want to meet with x", it means that I both want to get to know that individual better and that I want to be in the presence of that individual. Interaction is an experience; life is experience. Reading words and being profoundly moved by them is an experience. The distinctions Christians put around all these things make no sense to me, because an honest desire to experience God will result in changed behaviour, if a person obeys what he or she has learned, just as an honest desire to understand the Bible will lead to positive change, if a person chooses obedience.

If somebody is just after an experience, and they find that this experience can be found in a Church, then that is a completely separate issue and must not be confused with people who seek to be in God's actual presence, which is the same as seeking God Himself. If somebody is just after "experience" minus God, then they are possibly not interested in Truth anyway. But such people come from all denominations of Christianity; some exchange the emotional high they get with Church atmosphere with the intellectual high they get from understanding very involved theology; the issue with such people is not that they seek the powerful presence of God over God, because both of these are the same, but that they are not seeking God at all.

When I think of seeking God it means to me - looking for God to do something- in the need of God to complete something

Seeking a God experience- God is a spirit and all of experiences are spiritual. To be part of a spiritual experience or to be included in spiritual experience.

All The Glory Belongs To God!

 

[Cassidy]

I think that often when people talk about seeking God vs. seeking and experience what they mean is more along the lines of seeking God for who He is vs. seeking to have a certain kind of experience (which usually means, seeking to feel a certain thing).

To me, I liken it to a marriage...you marry someone because you love them not because of what they can do for you...or the pleasure you can get from them.

You seek God because you love him....not because for what he can do for you or how he can pleasure you.